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Reptiles Cause lung problem? EMERGENCY
- Thread starter kmarsh
- Start date
angelkitty
New member
Kathy-I have read this entire post and had tears in my eyes. I am definitely praying for you and for God to touch and heal your body! It would be truly sad for you to have to give up your babies. Please keep us all updated.
Hugs!
Hugs!
WingedWolf
New member
I found some information here:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/interstitial-lung-disease/DS00592/DSECTION=causes
Although folks can have an allergy to reptiles, it just seems unlikely as a source for this kind of thing--reptiles just aren't very dusty, and this is all about fine particles entering the lungs. Feeder insects are a plausible culprit, and have been tied with asthma, though.
Mold spores, pollen, ordinary dust, ash, etc...all more likely to cause a problem like this.
This is a very rare and tragic problem, and my heart goes out to you. I also think getting rid of the reptiles would be premature--avoiding contact with their dried droppings and keeping dust down should minimize any risks.
When doing cage cleanings, have the person who is doing the cleaning liberally mist everything down with water. That will prevent dust from being stirred into the air during cleaning. (This method is used when cleaning up dangerous things like lead paint, too, so it should work well for this).
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/interstitial-lung-disease/DS00592/DSECTION=causes
Although folks can have an allergy to reptiles, it just seems unlikely as a source for this kind of thing--reptiles just aren't very dusty, and this is all about fine particles entering the lungs. Feeder insects are a plausible culprit, and have been tied with asthma, though.
Mold spores, pollen, ordinary dust, ash, etc...all more likely to cause a problem like this.
This is a very rare and tragic problem, and my heart goes out to you. I also think getting rid of the reptiles would be premature--avoiding contact with their dried droppings and keeping dust down should minimize any risks.
When doing cage cleanings, have the person who is doing the cleaning liberally mist everything down with water. That will prevent dust from being stirred into the air during cleaning. (This method is used when cleaning up dangerous things like lead paint, too, so it should work well for this).
kmarsh
New member
Thank You all for your prayers and need as much of them as possible. I go back to Emory University in April for more evaluation and talk with transplant team. I just wanted to open this up so that I could get any information out there but also so that others can think about being careful just in case there is a link. I agree there are much more likely causes. One thing that has concerned me and I had never used but its the reptisand. One of the geckos that I had come to me is on it and when cleaning that cage I noticed how dusty that could be so we have changed that to paper. Just a thought for anyone else that may be using that product. Not bashing them and certainly don't know it to be a link but rather safe than sorry. We have a great group of people on here and it helps to know others are concerned and willing to help brain storm this situation. Love to you all....
Olexian Pro
New member
"Winged Wolf" had a great suggestion. In veterinary medicine we also use a similar techniques for the purpose of necropsy to limit the inhalation of potentially infectious particles.
I also agree that you should also have someone else mist down the cages before you enter the room.
I still think you would benefit from wearing a medical face mask when exposed to your animals as a prophylactic preventative, even after they have been misted. This will limit your exposure to allergenic materials such as dust and other particulate matter. Though it will not limit skin contact, it will prevent the inhalation of allergenic material, which can directly seed in your lungs. Skin exposure can still affect your pulmonary function indirectly through the systemic inflammation elicited and for this reason you must protect your skin as well or else you may still experience symptoms assuming that allergies are the problem.
As "Bubafat" so eloquently stated prior to this post, wearing a face mask WILL NOT keep out molecular matter such as caustic chemicals that may be used during cleaning (which you should really avoid using in your case). Such chemicals may cause irreversible damage if inhaled, but this is also an entirely different avenue apart from allergies. Although constituents of these agents can elicit allergic reactions the actual active ingredient, or cleaning agent often cannot elicit an immune response. Instead, damage occurs as a result of chemical toxicity, which is an entirely different disease progression. Which in all likely hood, you may be experiencing a mixed problem.
Whether or not an agent "can be" recognized by your immune system as a foreign material is based on the molecular size of the matter in question (measured in Daltons). As a general rule, any particulate matter < 1000 daltons in size, simply is not capable of stimulating your immune system. There are rare exceptions to this general rule, but the point here is that allergens can only be allergens if they are big enough to do so and if they are, a face mask WILL help deflect the direct inhalation of these materials, which is what face masks were designed to do. This is why a person cannot become allergic to the chemical sodium chloride for example. This is not to say they cannot be allergic to the container it is packaged in, but sodium chloride in and of itself is too small to elicit an immune responce and its a good thing since molecules such as sodium are so readily available in our bodies. My point in mentioning this is to draw the distinction between true allergens and chemical toxicity, since most of the active ingredients in chemical cleaners are too small to elicit allergic reactions. Again, this is not to say that other constituents cannot contribute to allergies; such as any preservatives that accompany the active ingredient, or the container itself.
In summary, if your condition is the result of severe allergies a face mask would definitely be worth your time as well and money. In contrast, if your condition is relative to chemical toxicity that may have occurred sometime in your past, you will then need to remove the chemicals from the environment entirely. In this case, a face mask would not be as beneficial, but in your case I truly feel it is better to be safe than sorry. The financial loss associated with the use of a face mask does not negate the potential benefits if allergies are truly suspected.
Just wanted to clarify this statement. Sorry for the delayed late post.
I also agree that you should also have someone else mist down the cages before you enter the room.
I still think you would benefit from wearing a medical face mask when exposed to your animals as a prophylactic preventative, even after they have been misted. This will limit your exposure to allergenic materials such as dust and other particulate matter. Though it will not limit skin contact, it will prevent the inhalation of allergenic material, which can directly seed in your lungs. Skin exposure can still affect your pulmonary function indirectly through the systemic inflammation elicited and for this reason you must protect your skin as well or else you may still experience symptoms assuming that allergies are the problem.
As "Bubafat" so eloquently stated prior to this post, wearing a face mask WILL NOT keep out molecular matter such as caustic chemicals that may be used during cleaning (which you should really avoid using in your case). Such chemicals may cause irreversible damage if inhaled, but this is also an entirely different avenue apart from allergies. Although constituents of these agents can elicit allergic reactions the actual active ingredient, or cleaning agent often cannot elicit an immune response. Instead, damage occurs as a result of chemical toxicity, which is an entirely different disease progression. Which in all likely hood, you may be experiencing a mixed problem.
Whether or not an agent "can be" recognized by your immune system as a foreign material is based on the molecular size of the matter in question (measured in Daltons). As a general rule, any particulate matter < 1000 daltons in size, simply is not capable of stimulating your immune system. There are rare exceptions to this general rule, but the point here is that allergens can only be allergens if they are big enough to do so and if they are, a face mask WILL help deflect the direct inhalation of these materials, which is what face masks were designed to do. This is why a person cannot become allergic to the chemical sodium chloride for example. This is not to say they cannot be allergic to the container it is packaged in, but sodium chloride in and of itself is too small to elicit an immune responce and its a good thing since molecules such as sodium are so readily available in our bodies. My point in mentioning this is to draw the distinction between true allergens and chemical toxicity, since most of the active ingredients in chemical cleaners are too small to elicit allergic reactions. Again, this is not to say that other constituents cannot contribute to allergies; such as any preservatives that accompany the active ingredient, or the container itself.
In summary, if your condition is the result of severe allergies a face mask would definitely be worth your time as well and money. In contrast, if your condition is relative to chemical toxicity that may have occurred sometime in your past, you will then need to remove the chemicals from the environment entirely. In this case, a face mask would not be as beneficial, but in your case I truly feel it is better to be safe than sorry. The financial loss associated with the use of a face mask does not negate the potential benefits if allergies are truly suspected.
Just wanted to clarify this statement. Sorry for the delayed late post.
Last edited:
SamanthaJane13
Demon Pazuzu/B!tchGoddess
Jason-
Thanks so much for all the information you've found for Kathy and the rest of us.
My daughter and I also suffer from allergies and asthma, and we're being very cautious when we clean our tanks and handle our animals because of this thread.
The insects and rodents seem to me to be the biggest culprit here. The dander from the insects and the droppings from both.
Cockroach droppings have been identified as a HUGE trigger to asthma, and I'm willing to bet that other insects are linked to other respiratory diseases the same way.
And rodent urine is linked to Hanta virus.
I wonder of the doctors have looked at this sort of transmission!!!
Thank God we only have geckos, and they rarely get insects. They're thriving on Crested Gecko Diet.
Again, Jason-thank you so much for your time, research and caring!!
Hugs-
Donna
Thanks so much for all the information you've found for Kathy and the rest of us.
My daughter and I also suffer from allergies and asthma, and we're being very cautious when we clean our tanks and handle our animals because of this thread.
The insects and rodents seem to me to be the biggest culprit here. The dander from the insects and the droppings from both.
Cockroach droppings have been identified as a HUGE trigger to asthma, and I'm willing to bet that other insects are linked to other respiratory diseases the same way.
And rodent urine is linked to Hanta virus.
I wonder of the doctors have looked at this sort of transmission!!!
Thank God we only have geckos, and they rarely get insects. They're thriving on Crested Gecko Diet.
Again, Jason-thank you so much for your time, research and caring!!
Hugs-
Donna
Olexian Pro
New member
It's my pleasure Donna. This has been a great learning experience for all of us and my deepest empathy goes out to Kathy as well. This topic has been of great interest to me and the concept of allergies to reptiles is a relatively new one that I anticipate we will be seeing much more of as our awareness of this phenomenon grows among the general public.
In light of Kathy's case, I will now anticipate future clients that might experience similar difficulties. This thread has certainly given me the opportunity to reflect on how I might approach these situations from the standpoint of a future veterinarian who will not be allowed to provide medical advice to human patients.
This is a professional challenge that can be very difficult to work around, especially in cases where the service of human and animal clinicians in collaboration would be appropriate. There is currently a huge separation between human medicine and veterinary medicine and crossing that boundry is heavily frowned upon by both professions. I personally feel this is sad and very unproductive at times when we should be working hand in hand for the benefit of our patients.
My current advice to anyone that might experience health problems in association with animals, would be this:
Get both your veterinarian and your medical doctor involved and insist that they work together as a team.
If they refuse, then find yourself another MD or DVM who will be willing to work in the interests of you and your pets, not just one or the other.
Medical Doctors (MD's) are not trained, or qualified to make recommendations concerning your pets.
Equally so, veterinarians (DVM's) are not trained, or qualified to make recommendations concerning human medicine.
Both are specialists in two legally distinct fields and for this reason both should be involved when considerations for animal abandonment are being made, or in cases when consideration must be given to both animal and human welfare.
Kathy has been very open and willing to share the detailed information concerning her case and for this I am extremely grateful. I admire Kathy a great deal for her emotional stamina, her refusal to give up in the face of devastating news and her ability to maintain hope for a better outcome. I too have had very similar experience in my youth and events such as these can be life altering.
I have enjoyed my communications with Kathy and look forward to hearing of future engagements with her doctors as they work together to obtain a more definitive diagnosis. I certainly wish Kathy the best in all of her future challenges and look forward to meeting her in person, perhaps at a future reptile show.
In light of Kathy's case, I will now anticipate future clients that might experience similar difficulties. This thread has certainly given me the opportunity to reflect on how I might approach these situations from the standpoint of a future veterinarian who will not be allowed to provide medical advice to human patients.
This is a professional challenge that can be very difficult to work around, especially in cases where the service of human and animal clinicians in collaboration would be appropriate. There is currently a huge separation between human medicine and veterinary medicine and crossing that boundry is heavily frowned upon by both professions. I personally feel this is sad and very unproductive at times when we should be working hand in hand for the benefit of our patients.
My current advice to anyone that might experience health problems in association with animals, would be this:
Get both your veterinarian and your medical doctor involved and insist that they work together as a team.
If they refuse, then find yourself another MD or DVM who will be willing to work in the interests of you and your pets, not just one or the other.
Medical Doctors (MD's) are not trained, or qualified to make recommendations concerning your pets.
Equally so, veterinarians (DVM's) are not trained, or qualified to make recommendations concerning human medicine.
Both are specialists in two legally distinct fields and for this reason both should be involved when considerations for animal abandonment are being made, or in cases when consideration must be given to both animal and human welfare.
Kathy has been very open and willing to share the detailed information concerning her case and for this I am extremely grateful. I admire Kathy a great deal for her emotional stamina, her refusal to give up in the face of devastating news and her ability to maintain hope for a better outcome. I too have had very similar experience in my youth and events such as these can be life altering.
I have enjoyed my communications with Kathy and look forward to hearing of future engagements with her doctors as they work together to obtain a more definitive diagnosis. I certainly wish Kathy the best in all of her future challenges and look forward to meeting her in person, perhaps at a future reptile show.
Last edited:
kmarsh
New member
SEE, I told Yall Jason was such a sweetie 
Seriously, I feel we are all here to work for the good of the hobby and our healths and if there is something that one of us knows or has tried then we all can learn from it. I am concerned about anyone using the sand product because I feel this could be a potential problem. If there is anything I can share to help someone else or if someone knows of something, I hope we will all do the same. Both professional fields should work together and hopefully Jason will be the start of a new generation of Vets that can make progress in this area for both professions. I will update as I know more. Love to you all....
Seriously, I feel we are all here to work for the good of the hobby and our healths and if there is something that one of us knows or has tried then we all can learn from it. I am concerned about anyone using the sand product because I feel this could be a potential problem. If there is anything I can share to help someone else or if someone knows of something, I hope we will all do the same. Both professional fields should work together and hopefully Jason will be the start of a new generation of Vets that can make progress in this area for both professions. I will update as I know more. Love to you all....
Cobra69
Cobra69
One disorder, many causes
Because interstitial lung disease has a wide range of causes, determining the reason for an initial injury to lung tissue can be difficult. Some of the many possible contributing factors include:
Occupational and environmental factors. Long-term exposure to a number of toxins or pollutants can lead to serious lung damage. Workers who routinely inhale silica dust, asbestos fibers or hard metal dust are especially at risk of serious lung disease. So are people exposed to certain chemical fumes and ammonia or chlorine gases.
But chronic exposure to a wide range of substances, many of them organic, also can damage your lungs. Among these are grain, sugar cane, and dust from bird and animal droppings. Other substances, such as moldy hay, can be a problem when they cause a hypersensitivity reaction in the lungs (hypersensitivity pneumonitis). Even bacterial or fungal overgrowth in poorly maintained humidifiers and hot tubs can cause lung damage.
Infections. These include viral infections such as cytomegalovirus, a particular problem if you have a weakened immune system; some bacterial infections, including pneumonia; fungal infections such as histoplasmosis; and parasitic infections.
Radiation. Some people who receive radiation therapy for lung cancer or breast cancer show signs of lung damage long after they finish radiation treatment. The severity of the damage may depend on how much of your lung is exposed to radiation, the total amount of radiation you receive, whether chemotherapy also is used, and whether you have underlying lung disease.
Drugs. Some drugs can damage the tissue that lines your lungs. Those most likely to cause lung problems include chemotherapy drugs, medications used to treat heart arrhythmias and other cardiovascular problems, certain psychiatric medications, and some antibiotics.
Other medical conditions. Interstitial lung disease can occur with other disorders. Often, those conditions don't directly attack the lungs, but instead affect tissue processes throughout the body. Among these are lupus, scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis, dermatomyositis, polymyositis, Sjogren's syndrome and sarcoidosis. Some researchers think that gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) — in which the lungs chronically intake a small volume of gastric contents — can result in pulmonary fibrosis.
Because interstitial lung disease has a wide range of causes, determining the reason for an initial injury to lung tissue can be difficult. Some of the many possible contributing factors include:
Occupational and environmental factors. Long-term exposure to a number of toxins or pollutants can lead to serious lung damage. Workers who routinely inhale silica dust, asbestos fibers or hard metal dust are especially at risk of serious lung disease. So are people exposed to certain chemical fumes and ammonia or chlorine gases.
But chronic exposure to a wide range of substances, many of them organic, also can damage your lungs. Among these are grain, sugar cane, and dust from bird and animal droppings. Other substances, such as moldy hay, can be a problem when they cause a hypersensitivity reaction in the lungs (hypersensitivity pneumonitis). Even bacterial or fungal overgrowth in poorly maintained humidifiers and hot tubs can cause lung damage.
Infections. These include viral infections such as cytomegalovirus, a particular problem if you have a weakened immune system; some bacterial infections, including pneumonia; fungal infections such as histoplasmosis; and parasitic infections.
Radiation. Some people who receive radiation therapy for lung cancer or breast cancer show signs of lung damage long after they finish radiation treatment. The severity of the damage may depend on how much of your lung is exposed to radiation, the total amount of radiation you receive, whether chemotherapy also is used, and whether you have underlying lung disease.
Drugs. Some drugs can damage the tissue that lines your lungs. Those most likely to cause lung problems include chemotherapy drugs, medications used to treat heart arrhythmias and other cardiovascular problems, certain psychiatric medications, and some antibiotics.
Other medical conditions. Interstitial lung disease can occur with other disorders. Often, those conditions don't directly attack the lungs, but instead affect tissue processes throughout the body. Among these are lupus, scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis, dermatomyositis, polymyositis, Sjogren's syndrome and sarcoidosis. Some researchers think that gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) — in which the lungs chronically intake a small volume of gastric contents — can result in pulmonary fibrosis.
SamanthaJane13
Demon Pazuzu/B!tchGoddess
Kathy!!
Have you had any updates??
We haven't had any news from you in quite a while, and I've been worried about you, hon!
You're still in our prayers!!
Hugs-
Donna
Have you had any updates??
We haven't had any news from you in quite a while, and I've been worried about you, hon!
You're still in our prayers!!
Hugs-
Donna
kmarsh
New member
Thanks Donna,
Much prayer is still needed but so far nothing links the reptiles to this situation. To me that is the good news! The reptiles are outside in their outside enclosures and still no change in me. Jason caught that a echo on my heart had not been done in a few years so that was done and it shows pulmonary hypertension so a cardiologist is being brought in for this new update. Just alot of break down in this old body for just 49 yrs old. So definately need all the prayers but in no way am I giving up. Also this is where I tend to reach for my "babies" more and enjoy them completely. I keep peeping in and checking on all of you. All of you are in my thoughts and prayers as well. Happy Mothers Day to all of you out there today.
Much prayer is still needed but so far nothing links the reptiles to this situation. To me that is the good news! The reptiles are outside in their outside enclosures and still no change in me. Jason caught that a echo on my heart had not been done in a few years so that was done and it shows pulmonary hypertension so a cardiologist is being brought in for this new update. Just alot of break down in this old body for just 49 yrs old. So definately need all the prayers but in no way am I giving up. Also this is where I tend to reach for my "babies" more and enjoy them completely. I keep peeping in and checking on all of you. All of you are in my thoughts and prayers as well. Happy Mothers Day to all of you out there today.
SamanthaJane13
Demon Pazuzu/B!tchGoddess
SamanthaJane13
Demon Pazuzu/B!tchGoddess
LOL-yeah-that was an odd misinterpretation of the Chief Seattle quote by Chuck Kimmel, so I HAD to change it.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144218&page=2
Post 65 on this page...but the whole thread is hysterical!!!