Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

[StrictlyExotics]

Yaz - the question remains:

If the necropsy shows pneumonia are you going to refund David his money?

If the answer is "yes" - how much?

Or are you going to question whether or not it was forged or that the vet was a friend of David's, etc?

This could have been over pages ago if you had only admitted that there was a possibility that you may have sent David a sick snake and had agreed to split the cost of the necropsy to determine the cause of death.

At that point your reputation is still intact and (a) there is either no BOI thread or (b) there is and the next move is David's to make.

So will the necropsy settle this, or are you going to keep digging in your heels?

Craig, he may not have known that the animal was physically sick. This could have been taken care of without admitting that he knew that it was. Davids whole point wasnt whether Yaz knowingly sent him a sick snake but more of the fact that it died within 4 days.

Personally, I think the necropsy report will be very interesting to say the least. I have never had a snake with pnuemonia but have had one with an RI. I would imagine that the signs of a snake with pnuemonia would be similiar to one with an RI. Wouldnt the signs be totally visible to someone who had the snake more than just 3 days?

I think David has been totally fair in this transaction and should be compensated for his expenses should this come out as a problem PRIOR to shipping. I guess we will all soon find out.

 

[DaveyFig]

I was fine with doing that in the BEGINNING of this, all I was telling David was I wanted documented proof that he died from a previous condition AND THEN I WOULD SEND A REFUND. He insisted that I sent the money NOW which I didnt want to. I dont know how that was wrong of me wanting to wait to see what happened before I sent a refund.

So you intended to pay in the beginning, but wanted to drag it out. But now that it has been dragged out and you look bad, you don't want to pay what is actually owed? Your ad was for $300 plus shipping. YOU accepted(however it worked out) $390. The value of the snake is still 300. What you ate on shipping was on you. You should pay the full 390, with 300 (price of the snake) being the absolute minimum, and really the necropsy should be covered by you. Of course, if the necropsy faults David, you should be happy with your $227.

 

[HyderHouseHerps]

I hope you guys can get it worked out. It's hard enough losing an animal you put so much time and effort into raising. One of the hardest things about working with animals from the veterinary standpoint is when you lose. I wish you the best.

 

[Yaz23]

Dave, why dont you read my damn ad. I'll quote it for you "Take him for $350 + shipping. Live arrival guranteed." He was $350 + shipping not $300 + shipping.

By the way, If I sold the snake for $390 shipped how the hell would you still say I need to pay THE FULL VALUE I was asking when I didnt even get it????

Read what YOU SAID again: "Your ad was for $300 plus shipping. YOU accepted(however it worked out) $390. The value of the snake is still 300. What you ate on shipping was on you. You should pay the full 390, with 300 (price of the snake) being the absolute minimum"

So basically your saying this, I go to the store, buy something 50% off then decide to return it but instead of getting what I originally paid, I want the full retail price prior to it being on sale? You dont make sense Dave.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Dave, why dont you read my damn ad. I'll quote it for you "Take him for $350 + shipping. Live arrival guranteed." He was $350 + shipping not $300 + shipping.

By the way, If I sold the snake for $390 shipped how the hell would you still say I need to pay THE FULL VALUE I was asking when I didnt even get it????

Read what YOU SAID again: "Your ad was for $300 plus shipping. YOU accepted(however it worked out) $390. The value of the snake is still 300. What you ate on shipping was on you. You should pay the full 390, with 300 (price of the snake) being the absolute minimum"

So basically your saying this, I go to the store, buy something 50% off then decide to return it but instead of getting what I originally paid, I want the full retail price prior to it being on sale? You dont make sense Dave.

Yaz,

If you bought a TV from Best Buy, and it broke 3 days later, would you return it for a full refund even though they had to have it freighted over to their store? Would you be willing to settle with them for their cost minus shipping?

 

[Yaz23]

I DID NOT want to drag this out. I told David TONS OF DAMN TIMES that I would issue a refund to him AFTER I saw the report from the necropsy so I can see why he died. He DEMANDED a refund NOW otherwise he'd start a BOI thread. If he said he could wait a damn week or so to get the report then this wouldnt have even started to begin with.

I'll quote one of the emails he sent me before he posted this thread:

-----Original Message-----
From: David Freeman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Chris <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour

Yaz, I want the $250 now or I will just start a BOI. Enough of the back and forth BS. I have been on here waiting and I really dont want this to come out in the public because I do think you are a good guy but I deserve part of my money back. I told you you would be getting a copy of the report when I get it.

Whats interesting is that you were the one that suggested I not even spend more money to get the necropsy done. Why do you now say you want to wait for a report? I can only guess the BS I would be going through with you had I been stupid enough to not get a full necropsy done.

Its almost 11:00
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com

This is what I said in response:

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour


I was telling you about maybe not getting a necropsy done because I knew they were very pricey and I didnt think you had a 'hook up' to get one done. I was only saying that so you wouldnt be spending more money. I do want to know what happened exactly because pneumonia doesnt seem accurate. Once I see the report and photos, and if thats what he died from then we can go from there. I have spoken with a few people here and they all said it doesnt make sense. I will be speaking to my personal exotic vet on Monday about the situation and would like to hear new information about the necropsy. I believe its too early to issue any type of refund considering there isnt any type of report done, no photos to be seen, and I need written documents to view. I apologize for this but documented proof is all I need.

Thanks,
Yaz M.

I told him TONS of times all I needed was proof that he died from something prior to me shipping him and then I'd give him a refund. It was odd to me why he couldnt wait a week to see what the reason behind the boas death was. I dont think thats unreasonable of me.

 

[DaveyFig]

So basically your saying this, I go to the store, buy something 50% off then decide to return it but instead of getting what I originally paid, I want the full retail price prior to it being on sale? You dont make sense Dave.

My bad! I got the price wrong.With all of your tap dancing I must not have remembered one of the numbers you have thrown out there and retracted.
If I bought something from a store online, and was sent a defective product, and I could prove that the defect came from the factory, I guarantee I would be pissed off is I wasn't comped the shipping.Also If the price was $350 plus shipping, and they quoted me a total of $390, quess what I would assume shipping cost was when I went to get my refund if they refused to pay shipping...$350!

 

[Yaz23]

I didnt sell the snake for $350 + shipping if you havent read this thread yet. He was $390 shipped, based on shipping and expenses the value of the snake is $227 NOT $300 or $350 or whatever price your going for.

 

[DaveyFig]

Yaz, you agreed to pay him $250 by 11:00 and it was almost 11:00...That was after you were supposed to pay $300 and didn't meet the scheduled payment time. What was he supposed to do,let you go lower and make him wait longer? The BOI is the place for this. A god indicator of that is the list of 20+ people who have been following this thread all day. Each time it is a different group, but it has range from 20-40 ALL DAY. Is this good for business? Will shorting him after you get the necropsy results help you somehow? Is $163 really worth it? If its a principle thing, that ship has sailed.

 

[DaveyFig]

I didnt sell the snake for $350 + shipping if you havent read this thread yet. He was $390 shipped, based on shipping and expenses the value of the snake is $227 NOT $300 or $350 or whatever price your going for.

OK Yaz, you are right. You should only refund $227 dollars. I think that would put the icing on the cake for those who are on the fence about dealing with you , and ultimately lead to you leaving.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Yaz, I understand your frustration but you are missing my point. You said that you were willing to refund 227.00 AFTER the Necropsy report. To me, once the report comes out, 227.00 is not a valid refund. The refund, then, should be the full purchase price that David sent you, not your take on it.

At this point, I am not telling you that you should refund David prior to receiving the report but once the report is out there for all to see, if it shows that this snake was sick prior to shipping, we are talking full refund here. I could understand your position a little more if the time was more than the few days that it was when this snake died.

The deal that you should be talking to David about is a full refund once the Necropsy report comes to light, not 227.00. I understand that this will cost you out of pocket, but, it also doesnt cost you long term.

 

[Yaz23]

What I find ironic is you take his word I agreed to pay those refunds every time he asked? I DIDNT AGREE TO I told him I wanted proof how he died then I would issue a refund. He gave me time limits of when I needed to send him a refund. So stop accusing me of this .

I told him I'd give him a refund AFTER I saw the reports. That is not unreasonable of me at all. HE DEMANDED REFUNDS NOW. He was telling me to issue him a refund before I even saw pics. Once I saw those he was telling me to issue a refund before I even knew the cause of death. Honestly, if a boa was shipped out healthy to your knowledge and appeared perfectly healthy. It arrived perfectly healthy. Then didnt hear from the buyer for 2 1/2 days and then get a call that its sick and died. WOULDNT YOU WANT SOME PROOF PRIOR TO SENDING A REFUND???

 

[Yaz23]

That post was for Dave not you Dean. I understand your point Dean.

 

[DaveyFig]

At this point, I am not telling you that you should refund David prior to receiving the report but once the report is out there for all to see, if it shows that this snake was sick prior to shipping, we are talking full refund here. I could understand your position a little more if the time was more than the few days that it was when this snake died.

I agree.If the report shows that the snake was sick prior to shipping, then it shouldn't have been shipped in the first place (even if it was visually healthy,it sucks butthat's how it is) and the buyer should not incur a shipping fee. Even if the illness was masked, if it is proven that the snake had pneumonia, it was not a healthy snake as advertised and shipping cost responsibility is on the seller.

 

[DaveyFig]

What I find ironic is you take his word I agreed to pay those refunds every time he asked? I DIDNT AGREE TO I told him I wanted proof how he died then I would issue a refund. He gave me time limits of when I needed to send him a refund. So stop accusing me of this .

I told him I'd give him a refund AFTER I saw the reports. That is not unreasonable of me at all. HE DEMANDED REFUNDS NOW. He was telling me to issue him a refund before I even saw pics. Once I saw those he was telling me to issue a refund before I even knew the cause of death. Honestly, if a boa was shipped out healthy to your knowledge and appeared perfectly healthy. It arrived perfectly healthy. Then didnt hear from the buyer for 2 1/2 days and then get a call that its sick and died. WOULDNT YOU WANT SOME PROOF PRIOR TO SENDING A REFUND???

Do you know what ironic means? I don't see anything ironic about taking the word of someone who has acted nothing but honorably at face value over someone who continues to try to justify ridiculous accusations of wrong doing by the only person in this situation who is currently out anything!

You didn't agree to anything, but told him you would give him a refund after you saw vet reports. How much did you say you would give him?

I'll tell you what the cause of death was...It either stopped breathing, or its heart stopped.

If I shipped out a snake and it died within a YEAR and they could prove that it had the condition before I sent it, I would issue a refund. Granted, thats going to be a tough one to prove, and I probably wouldn't be stuck with a bill, but you see what I am saying...or you should anyway. IF you sent him a sick snake, knowingly or not, you need to cover all expenses.
I would give time limits on repayment too. I may be more lenient, and may even accept payments. Hell, I am still waiting for a $200 debt owed for a snake I never got. You set a time limit when you sold the snake, without saying it. You wouldn't send the snake til it was paid for. Now the snake is dead, and it is Davids turn to set time limits. You have the choice of rejecting them, but you will have to live with the decision you make here.

 

[Yaz23]

First of all, he has no right of setting time limits for a refund when I dont know what killed my boa. IF the cause was already known and the vet gave documents about it, then he can set all the limits he wants. But I dont issue refunds just from words from someones mouth and I dont think anyone else would either.

You said this: "You didn't agree to anything, but told him you would give him a refund after you saw vet reports. How much did you say you would give him? I'll tell you what the cause of death was...It either stopped breathing, or its heart stopped."

I never told him how much I'd give him after I saw the vet report. I told him I'd give him some type of refund that we could figure out after we know what happened.

I dont need you dumb sarcastic comments on how my snake died. Keept it to yourself or go chat on myspace with those remarks.

 

[Yaz23]

Spelling error, woops! I said you and meant your. I also said keept and meant keep. I would correct it if I could edit these posts.

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

Even if that is my boa, it doesnt make sense how he died within 3-4 days when he was PERFECTLY healthy before I shipped him. Even when David (the buyer) received my boa, there wasnt the smallest complaint about anything.

I didnt hear anything from David until THURSDAY at 3:56pm (have all call days/times) stating that the snake had some mucus from his mouth and that he made a vet appointment for Friday. Then on Friday he calls saying that he went to pick up the snake to bring to the vet and it was dead.

Another thing I wanted to point out the boa arrived at 9:15AM. I REQUIRE on ALL SHIPMENTS, I MUST here from the buyer immediately after delivery. I waited and waited and he never called. I called at 9:52AM he didnt answer so I left a voicemail. I called again at 9:54AM and picked up and said everything was perfect and the boa was healthy and great.

Another thing I wanted to point out, the driver stated GARAGE on the tracking number. I CONTACTED UPS and they informed me the driver would have put "Handed to man" or "Handed to person" if the driver actually gave it to someone. Therefore, I am not even sure if David actually was there for the package considering he never called me and the box was delivered GARAGE.

Doesnt mean anything UPS puts all sorts of funky shtuff whenever they deliver to me and I meet them at the truck. But thats been addressed already.

JT you stated this: "What about the $390 David is out? Maybe you should've thought about all of the expenses such as the paypal fee etc. and charged more for the snake.
You're all "me me me" but what about David and his losses?
Also, Yaz didn't you have a boa for sale that appeared to have a RI? It may have been a rescue, I don't recall.
You posted that the snake seemed to have an RI, though you didn't take it to the vet, only turned up his heat in hopes of making him better.
Was that sick snake housed near the boa that this thread is about?
If I'm mistaken I do apologize."
I did have a boa that had an RI, he was slightly weezing when I got him. I had him quarantined in THE OTHER SIDE OF MY HOUSE. I even stated that in my ad that the snake wasnt in contact and never came even close in contact with any of my other snakes. I sold him to someone, and that boa is doing fine.

JT you also stated this: "How is Yaz out anything? If he cared so much for that snake he should have kept it but he didn't. He decided to sell it and he now has the money he sold it for. What is he out?"
First of all, I dont know why your asking I sold my boa. Why dont you ask everyone who posts for sale ads why their selling their snakes??? But if you must know, I actually STATED IT IN MY AD. In the very first sentence. "I hate to part with this huge guy but I need to make room unfortunately." that is why I sold him. I needed room for babies that were coming. Second of all, 'what am I out'? I'm 'out' a dead 8ft 40LB boa thats what I'm 'out'.

JT you also stated this: "Where's his proof the snake was healthy? Since it works both ways." Well considering you can clearly see the pictures I posted he looks healthy. Second of all, he was inspected upon arrival and said by the buyer, the boa was perfect and fine. That to me seems like I sent out a good animal. If you say he didnt have enough time to inspect it when it arrived, thats a wrong statement considering he didnt call me for 2 1/2 days AFTER the boa arrived, so thats plenty of time to notice a problem with an animal.

Maybe the boa did have some weird problem that I never once noticed for 2 years.If he did, he hid it VERY well.
Davey, call your personal vet and see how much a necropsy is. I said it would be hundreds of dollars because thats how much a Vet would charge. I will call mine tomorrow and see how much a necropsy done on a 8ft 40LB boa would cost me and let you know.

To answer another persons question, if the lab results show that he died because of something he had before I shipped him, I will refund $227 considering thats how much I personally got for the animal. David is out the shipping/expenses and I am out my big boa. That is fair.

First off, I have a boa that got dumped on me not too long ago. It's got an RI, but youd never know it. Invalid point.


And now on the last little bit. Those 3 pretty little words....that is fair?
LOL

The snake's value is NOT what you get after fees. The snake's value is what DAVID paid initally, which is what, 300+shipping? So he bought the snake for 300.
Just because you dont know how to figure paypal fees, shipping costs and other misc. charges into your final cash in hand total doesnt mean you need to stiff dude out of 63 bucks.

Money does nasty things to people. Im glad you had a million awesome transactions....welcome to handling your first bad one. This is the proving ground.

What are you gonna do?

 

[StrictlyExotics]

I have been talking to Yaz, and he and David will be talking tomorrow to get a resolution acceptable to both parties.

 

[Yaz23]

Konstantin, we agreed to $250 + shipping. I told him $390 shipped because when I calculated the shipping cost it was $140, which when it was actually shipped it was $134. The box, container, and paypal fees I just deducted from the total amount that I can see would be on my end which is fine.