CarolinaClassicDragons
New member
So I dont forget..David Freeman
I recently purchased a large, male boa from Yaz Mansour. Yaz shipped him to me on Monday, May 3rd and I received the snake via UPS on Tuesday May 4th. I had read about Yaz prior to the purchase to get the scoop on him and read all of the great things about him. I also talked to a couple of friends of mine that had heard a few positive things about him through Fauna and such. I felt comfortable dealing with him and trusted that I would receive a beautiful, healthy boa. I was impressed with Yaz from the get go. He communicated well and was an all around professional. In fact, after I received the snake on Tuesday, he called me before I could even get around to calling him because he had seen the UPS feedback that they had left the boa by my garage (when in fact I met the UPS man at my garage and got the snake) and he got worried. I was impressed and you can read the positive trader rating I gave Yaz. He let me know there was a BOI thread about him and I told him I would post there too. I jumped the gun and wont make that mistake again.
Due to the last bout of mites I had to deal with on a new arrival boa, I soaked the boa to check him out thoroughly and I thought he may want a little drink should he be dehydrated from the flight. When I went to pick him up, I felt a little slime near the head but didnt think much of it. I thought it may have been some of the water he drank running back out a little. I dried him up and put him in his enclosure that was set at 88f on the warm side, and 80 on the cool. When I checked on him Wed. morning, I noticed that breathing sound snakes make when they have a URI. I got my temp gun and double checked the temps and they were at 88 on the warm side. I noticed the snake wasnt really favoring one side of the enclosure over the other. I decided to just keep a close eye on him. Well, Thursday morning, I went out and was shocked to see green mucous hanging on both sides of his mouth (see pic) and you could see it on the paper substrate. I immediately opened the enclosure and started wiping his mouth and observed him for a little while. He was mouth breathing off and on. I then called one of the DVM's that specializes in exotics here in Raleigh, NC. An appointment was made for 1:00 on Friday. I got up on Friday morning and noticed more mucous. I thought to myself that I was glad that I went ahead and made the appointment and started thinking that we were going to have to get some antibiotics into this boa. I was really perplexed by the whole situation as the snake had come out of Florida to North Carolina and never encountered cold air nor had to deal with much of a climate change at all. I was very disappointed and wanting 1:00 to get here fast. I went to work and then rushed back home at 11:30 to get the snake ready for the trip to the vet office. Well, he was upside down dead in his enclosure. It appeared he had rolled around a bit and had passed urates as he struggled with death. I was shocked and saddened. I immediately called the vet office and talked to my vet live. He told me that it was not uncommon to see and hear of these type situations in exotic animals. He reinforced what I had often heard in that these animals hide symptoms until it is often too late. We both felt the stress of the move, minimal as it was or appeared to be, was the catalyst that brought out the symptoms of whatever it was that this snake had. He recommended that I take it over to Rollins Diagnostic Laboratory here in Raleigh, NC for a necropsy. Upon getting off the phone with the DVM, I called Yaz. I wanted to hear his thoughts and make sure he knew the worst had happened. He couldnt believe it. He made the comment that he didnt think he would put more money into the snake by doing a necropsy but it was my choice. It was kind of like saying you can do it but I am not paying for it. He wanted pictures and I told him that I would take a few and email them to him. After getting off the phone with him, I put the boa back in the Sterilite container he came in and took him to the diagnostic lab. I met with the attending DVM at the lab and she conducted the interview and told me that she would call me after she had finished the initial exam and necropsy. Of course tissue sampes would have to be sent off for lab work but she would have a good idea within an hour or two. Long story as short as I can make it, I ended up speaking with the primary case DVM and another DVM that was there through the majority of the necropsy and both said that all initial signs pointed to a pneumonia infection. Obviously they couldnt conclude whether it was bacterial of viral yet and would wait for the final labwork to see what else could come of those results. They found signs of mucous throughout the snakes lungs, throat and mouth and they said some other clinical jargon I didnt fully comprehend.
I immediately emailed Yaz to tell him that they were almost certain it was pneumonia. Regardless, this snake had some type of infection it was harboring before I purchased it. The stress of the move created a perfect breeding grounds for the nasty cells and they took over. Unfortunately, the snake lost. Yaz and I talked for quite awhile that same afternoon and we both just couldnt believe this had happened. I felt bad for him too because I really didnt think he knew anything was wrong with this snake before he shipped him. Things happen and I guess we learn we never really know everything that is going on inside these creatures. I paid $390 for the snake and I told him I didnt need the full amount back as I knew part of the payment went towards shipping cost although at that point I didnt know how much he paid for shipping. He agreed to Paypal me back $300 and we both hoped to learn more from the report once it came out. I told him that I would send over copies of the final report once I received it. Well, the payment never showed up. What did show up were these emails from him......
David,
I cant tell if thats even my boa. All there are is close up head shots. You didnt take any full body shots? I dont know how he ended up dying from pneumonia, that doesnt make sense what so ever. He has been kept at a constant 86F (varying a little here and there) but he's been kept warm. Any pictures of the necropsy showing his body?
Thanks,
Yaz M.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Freeman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Chris <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour
Hey Yaz,
Here are some of the pics I took this morning.
Regards,
David
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: David Freeman
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour
Please shoot me pictures.
Thanks,
Yaz M.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 7, 2010, at 3:24 PM, "David Freeman" <[email protected]> wrote:
It was pneumonia. The snake was eat up with it all the way deep down in the lungs. We wont know whether it was bacterial or viral but both attending DVM's were leaning towards bacterial. I am very glad that I stuck to my quarantine procedures and didnt expose my big girl. If it comes back viral, you will need to take extra precautions with every snake in your collection.
Please Paypal my business partner Chris back $300 and we can move on.
Thanks,
David
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 12:12 PM
Subject: Its Yaz Mansour
David,
This is my email, please shoot me pictures when you can.
Thanks,
Yaz M.
And then there was this one...
Another thing I noticed is whats that floor lined with? What size cage is that, it looks extemely short in height. I dont think that was suitable for a boa his size. This doesnt make any sense at all. Did you clean that cage out before you put him in there? If you did (which I would have you did) what did you clean the cage with? Send me full body shots, and necropsy photos. Thanks.
-Yaz M.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Freeman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Chris <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour
Hey Yaz,
Here are some of the pics I took this morning.
Regards,
David
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com
So Saturday morning I call and email and nothing. Not a word out of him until 5:45 with this email....
Sorry I didnt get a chance to call you back, Ive been very busy with work today. Call me when you can to discuss this situation.
Thanks,
Yaz M.
So, I call him and we discuss this even more. He tells me how he thinks $300 is too much because he paid $130 in shipping. I kept trying to tell him I paid $390 for a dead snake! I then paid the $65 necropsy fee but that was my decision and I didnt expect anything for it. I told him that know matter what the final amount was, he both were going to lose in this. We both lose financially, and neither of us has the snake. I told him to just Paypal me $250 and we could move on. He promised I would have it by 11:00tonight. Well, at 10:34 I get this email....
David,
Before I issue any type of refund, I'd like to view the necropsy reports and photos involved. When you get them please email me them. Also, please email me ALL the pictures you took when you saw him dead in the cage.
Thanks,
So this request comes from the guy that didnt even think I should waste time or money on a necropsy! Now, no refund until he sees reports? What would have happened had I made the decision to not get the necropsy done?? Thank goodness I did. But now, two DVM's, both veterinary diagnosticians, opinions dont mean anything. The thoughts and opinions of my primary DVM that specializes in exotics isnt enough for this guy.
I am beyond tired of the back and forth games from Yaz on this. Its time for him to stand behind the snake he sold me and refund me the money. Many would say I deserve the full $390 back. I am only asking for the $250 he agreed upon. I dont think Yaz is a bad guy and that is why I didnt label this BOI thread that way. I dont really think he thought anything was wrong with this snake before he shipped him. But there was. This just doesnt need to be put off any longer. Time to refund me the money and move on. No more "proof" needed.
I have attached some pictures here as well that add to the story. The first picture is one that Yaz had in his ad. I post this one since it is the best shot I have from Yaz that show the dead snake is the same snake he sold me. Not too many 8 1/2 foot, 40 lb boas around. The second pic is a shot of some of the mucous coming from the snake's mouth. The last ones are obvious.
I recently purchased a large, male boa from Yaz Mansour. Yaz shipped him to me on Monday, May 3rd and I received the snake via UPS on Tuesday May 4th. I had read about Yaz prior to the purchase to get the scoop on him and read all of the great things about him. I also talked to a couple of friends of mine that had heard a few positive things about him through Fauna and such. I felt comfortable dealing with him and trusted that I would receive a beautiful, healthy boa. I was impressed with Yaz from the get go. He communicated well and was an all around professional. In fact, after I received the snake on Tuesday, he called me before I could even get around to calling him because he had seen the UPS feedback that they had left the boa by my garage (when in fact I met the UPS man at my garage and got the snake) and he got worried. I was impressed and you can read the positive trader rating I gave Yaz. He let me know there was a BOI thread about him and I told him I would post there too. I jumped the gun and wont make that mistake again.
Due to the last bout of mites I had to deal with on a new arrival boa, I soaked the boa to check him out thoroughly and I thought he may want a little drink should he be dehydrated from the flight. When I went to pick him up, I felt a little slime near the head but didnt think much of it. I thought it may have been some of the water he drank running back out a little. I dried him up and put him in his enclosure that was set at 88f on the warm side, and 80 on the cool. When I checked on him Wed. morning, I noticed that breathing sound snakes make when they have a URI. I got my temp gun and double checked the temps and they were at 88 on the warm side. I noticed the snake wasnt really favoring one side of the enclosure over the other. I decided to just keep a close eye on him. Well, Thursday morning, I went out and was shocked to see green mucous hanging on both sides of his mouth (see pic) and you could see it on the paper substrate. I immediately opened the enclosure and started wiping his mouth and observed him for a little while. He was mouth breathing off and on. I then called one of the DVM's that specializes in exotics here in Raleigh, NC. An appointment was made for 1:00 on Friday. I got up on Friday morning and noticed more mucous. I thought to myself that I was glad that I went ahead and made the appointment and started thinking that we were going to have to get some antibiotics into this boa. I was really perplexed by the whole situation as the snake had come out of Florida to North Carolina and never encountered cold air nor had to deal with much of a climate change at all. I was very disappointed and wanting 1:00 to get here fast. I went to work and then rushed back home at 11:30 to get the snake ready for the trip to the vet office. Well, he was upside down dead in his enclosure. It appeared he had rolled around a bit and had passed urates as he struggled with death. I was shocked and saddened. I immediately called the vet office and talked to my vet live. He told me that it was not uncommon to see and hear of these type situations in exotic animals. He reinforced what I had often heard in that these animals hide symptoms until it is often too late. We both felt the stress of the move, minimal as it was or appeared to be, was the catalyst that brought out the symptoms of whatever it was that this snake had. He recommended that I take it over to Rollins Diagnostic Laboratory here in Raleigh, NC for a necropsy. Upon getting off the phone with the DVM, I called Yaz. I wanted to hear his thoughts and make sure he knew the worst had happened. He couldnt believe it. He made the comment that he didnt think he would put more money into the snake by doing a necropsy but it was my choice. It was kind of like saying you can do it but I am not paying for it. He wanted pictures and I told him that I would take a few and email them to him. After getting off the phone with him, I put the boa back in the Sterilite container he came in and took him to the diagnostic lab. I met with the attending DVM at the lab and she conducted the interview and told me that she would call me after she had finished the initial exam and necropsy. Of course tissue sampes would have to be sent off for lab work but she would have a good idea within an hour or two. Long story as short as I can make it, I ended up speaking with the primary case DVM and another DVM that was there through the majority of the necropsy and both said that all initial signs pointed to a pneumonia infection. Obviously they couldnt conclude whether it was bacterial of viral yet and would wait for the final labwork to see what else could come of those results. They found signs of mucous throughout the snakes lungs, throat and mouth and they said some other clinical jargon I didnt fully comprehend.
I immediately emailed Yaz to tell him that they were almost certain it was pneumonia. Regardless, this snake had some type of infection it was harboring before I purchased it. The stress of the move created a perfect breeding grounds for the nasty cells and they took over. Unfortunately, the snake lost. Yaz and I talked for quite awhile that same afternoon and we both just couldnt believe this had happened. I felt bad for him too because I really didnt think he knew anything was wrong with this snake before he shipped him. Things happen and I guess we learn we never really know everything that is going on inside these creatures. I paid $390 for the snake and I told him I didnt need the full amount back as I knew part of the payment went towards shipping cost although at that point I didnt know how much he paid for shipping. He agreed to Paypal me back $300 and we both hoped to learn more from the report once it came out. I told him that I would send over copies of the final report once I received it. Well, the payment never showed up. What did show up were these emails from him......
David,
I cant tell if thats even my boa. All there are is close up head shots. You didnt take any full body shots? I dont know how he ended up dying from pneumonia, that doesnt make sense what so ever. He has been kept at a constant 86F (varying a little here and there) but he's been kept warm. Any pictures of the necropsy showing his body?
Thanks,
Yaz M.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Freeman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Chris <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour
Hey Yaz,
Here are some of the pics I took this morning.
Regards,
David
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: David Freeman
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour
Please shoot me pictures.
Thanks,
Yaz M.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 7, 2010, at 3:24 PM, "David Freeman" <[email protected]> wrote:
It was pneumonia. The snake was eat up with it all the way deep down in the lungs. We wont know whether it was bacterial or viral but both attending DVM's were leaning towards bacterial. I am very glad that I stuck to my quarantine procedures and didnt expose my big girl. If it comes back viral, you will need to take extra precautions with every snake in your collection.
Please Paypal my business partner Chris back $300 and we can move on.
Thanks,
David
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 12:12 PM
Subject: Its Yaz Mansour
David,
This is my email, please shoot me pictures when you can.
Thanks,
Yaz M.
And then there was this one...
Another thing I noticed is whats that floor lined with? What size cage is that, it looks extemely short in height. I dont think that was suitable for a boa his size. This doesnt make any sense at all. Did you clean that cage out before you put him in there? If you did (which I would have you did) what did you clean the cage with? Send me full body shots, and necropsy photos. Thanks.
-Yaz M.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Freeman <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Chris <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: Its Yaz Mansour
Hey Yaz,
Here are some of the pics I took this morning.
Regards,
David
www.carolinaclassicdragons.com
So Saturday morning I call and email and nothing. Not a word out of him until 5:45 with this email....
Sorry I didnt get a chance to call you back, Ive been very busy with work today. Call me when you can to discuss this situation.
Thanks,
Yaz M.
So, I call him and we discuss this even more. He tells me how he thinks $300 is too much because he paid $130 in shipping. I kept trying to tell him I paid $390 for a dead snake! I then paid the $65 necropsy fee but that was my decision and I didnt expect anything for it. I told him that know matter what the final amount was, he both were going to lose in this. We both lose financially, and neither of us has the snake. I told him to just Paypal me $250 and we could move on. He promised I would have it by 11:00tonight. Well, at 10:34 I get this email....
David,
Before I issue any type of refund, I'd like to view the necropsy reports and photos involved. When you get them please email me them. Also, please email me ALL the pictures you took when you saw him dead in the cage.
Thanks,
So this request comes from the guy that didnt even think I should waste time or money on a necropsy! Now, no refund until he sees reports? What would have happened had I made the decision to not get the necropsy done?? Thank goodness I did. But now, two DVM's, both veterinary diagnosticians, opinions dont mean anything. The thoughts and opinions of my primary DVM that specializes in exotics isnt enough for this guy.
I am beyond tired of the back and forth games from Yaz on this. Its time for him to stand behind the snake he sold me and refund me the money. Many would say I deserve the full $390 back. I am only asking for the $250 he agreed upon. I dont think Yaz is a bad guy and that is why I didnt label this BOI thread that way. I dont really think he thought anything was wrong with this snake before he shipped him. But there was. This just doesnt need to be put off any longer. Time to refund me the money and move on. No more "proof" needed.
I have attached some pictures here as well that add to the story. The first picture is one that Yaz had in his ad. I post this one since it is the best shot I have from Yaz that show the dead snake is the same snake he sold me. Not too many 8 1/2 foot, 40 lb boas around. The second pic is a shot of some of the mucous coming from the snake's mouth. The last ones are obvious.
