Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

[garweft]

Yaz, it seems your saying that the boa was kept to warm with an 88 degree hotspot and 80 degree ambient? If that was the truth I'd have a few dead boas here since mine are kept with a 93 degree hotspot and ambient between 84-78 depending on room temp and season.

In the original post here there is an email from you saying you keep them at a constant 86 degrees.... I'm guessing that is without a hotspot for thermoregulation.

 

[Chrisw]

I was fine with doing that in the BEGINNING of this, all I was telling David was I wanted documented proof that he died from a previous condition AND THEN I WOULD SEND A REFUND. He insisted that I sent the money NOW which I didnt want to. I dont know how that was wrong of me wanting to wait to see what happened before I sent a refund.

Because if it wasnt for HIM there wouldnt be a report coming back, you are the one that did NOT want a necropsy done.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

I just read this post from Dean after I typed the last message. I wish I would have read it before. Maybe there will finally be resolution to this.

No more conversations unless you can get a neutral, third party on the line to hear everything. If Dean would do it, I am fine with that. I only know of him from Fauna and I dont think you are any closer to him than I am. You have my cell phone number and I should be available after 11:00 or so.

Whatever I can do to help get this back on a level to where you two are talking about a resolution, I will be more than happy to do. I do not know either of you personally, other than talking shop with the both of you on Fauna. I just want to see the two of you, whom I consider good people find a reasonable solution to a bad situation.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

I'd like to point out that even if you don't add the necropsy report which hasn't been produced by the vets yet, there hasn't been a single bit of proof shown that the vet said it was pneumonia.

The one thing that has finally been posted was a copy/paste of a email implying it's the vet saying they're still working on the findings and implying he won't say what definitively killed the boa until he has those findings done.

So everyone who keeps talking about necropsy results and whether he was advised about not getting a necropsy, how about asking for at least a written vet report? How about a print out from the vet where they note that they took the snake and examined it? If the vets said that the snake had pneumonia.. then they saw the snake right? So they should be able to show a receipt/file notes that they observed XXX.

That could help a lot to show the snake quite possibly had pneumonia.. while waiting on the necropsy which won't be for another few days at least. Obviously, pnuemonia with heavy mucus doesn't develop in 2 days, so it would help to show the snake was indeed sick(although probably hiding it's symptoms) when it was shipped.

Understand, I'm not trying to say anyone was lying about the vets saying XXX, but at this point it's still "he said" in regards to the vet's opinions. At this point there is the only proof that the pictures show, that the snake had muscus and the snake is dead. People keep saying "Two DVMs said.." while not remembering that no DVM has posted here, nor has a report been produced from the DVMs. Even the initial receipt that the vet should have on file(other than that little card thing)could be copied and scanned. Whenever I take any animal to my vet, there's a report and file, which you can request a copy of. It would be another bit of proof to show what process is going on.

 

[john_]

I'd like to point out that even if you don't add the necropsy report which hasn't been produced by the vets yet, there hasn't been a single bit of proof shown that the vet said it was pneumonia.

The one thing that has finally been posted was a copy/paste of a email implying it's the vet saying they're still working on the findings and implying he won't say what definitively killed the boa until he has those findings done.

So everyone who keeps talking about necropsy results and whether he was advised about not getting a necropsy, how about asking for at least a written vet report? How about a print out from the vet where they note that they took the snake and examined it? If the vets said that the snake had pneumonia.. then they saw the snake right? So they should be able to show a receipt/file notes that they observed XXX.

That could help a lot to show the snake quite possibly had pneumonia.. while waiting on the necropsy which won't be for another few days at least. Obviously, pnuemonia with heavy mucus doesn't develop in 2 days, so it would help to show the snake was indeed sick(although probably hiding it's symptoms) when it was shipped.

Understand, I'm not trying to say anyone was lying about the vets saying XXX, but at this point it's still "he said" in regards to the vet's opinions. At this point there is the only proof that the pictures show, that the snake had muscus and the snake is dead. People keep saying "Two DVMs said.." while not remembering that no DVM has posted here, nor has a report been produced from the DVMs. Even the initial receipt that the vet should have on file(other than that little card thing)could be copied and scanned. Whenever I take any animal to my vet, there's a report and file, which you can request a copy of. It would be another bit of proof to show what process is going on.

Thank you! That's what I've been trying to say this whole time. Why just believe a guy on the internet? It's 100% he said/she said at this point. Data > all.

 

[Chrisw]

I'd like to point out that even if you don't add the necropsy report which hasn't been produced by the vets yet, there hasn't been a single bit of proof shown that the vet said it was pneumonia.

The one thing that has finally been posted was a copy/paste of a email implying it's the vet saying they're still working on the findings and implying he won't say what definitively killed the boa until he has those findings done.

So everyone who keeps talking about necropsy results and whether he was advised about not getting a necropsy, how about asking for at least a written vet report? How about a print out from the vet where they note that they took the snake and examined it? If the vets said that the snake had pneumonia.. then they saw the snake right? So they should be able to show a receipt/file notes that they observed XXX.

That could help a lot to show the snake quite possibly had pneumonia.. while waiting on the necropsy which won't be for another few days at least. Obviously, pnuemonia with heavy mucus doesn't develop in 2 days, so it would help to show the snake was indeed sick(although probably hiding it's symptoms) when it was shipped.

Understand, I'm not trying to say anyone was lying about the vets saying XXX, but at this point it's still "he said" in regards to the vet's opinions. At this point there is the only proof that the pictures show, that the snake had muscus and the snake is dead. People keep saying "Two DVMs said.." while not remembering that no DVM has posted here, nor has a report been produced from the DVMs. Even the initial receipt that the vet should have on file(other than that little card thing)could be copied and scanned. Whenever I take any animal to my vet, there's a report and file, which you can request a copy of. It would be another bit of proof to show what process is going on.

The vet appointment was the same day that the snake died, the snake was taken to the lab not to the vet.

 

[john_]

The vet appointment was the same day that the snake died, the snake was taken to the lab not to the vet.

Labs don't write reports/give receipts?

 

[Chrisw]

Labs don't write reports/give receipts?

We are waiting on the report? You dont get a receipt till you pay, you pay when you pick up the report.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Then how did the 2 DVMs say the snake had pnuemonia? They had to see the snake at some point to say "it has pnuemonia". When they saw that, they had to have some form of file generated, even if it just says "preformed gross necropsy and sent off tissues for analysis". Someone at some point who was a DVM(two of them accoding to the OP) said the snake had pneumonia. That's where I'm saying there should be some sort of paper.

The lab doing the necropsy should have issued some sort of receipt, for payment rendered for the necropsy, but the little card thingy is the receipt I'm guessing for that.

 

[john_]

We are waiting on the report? You dont get a receipt till you pay, you pay when you pick up the report.

You get zero documentation saying what was done? You just walk in and say "hey, im the guy with the snake"?

 

[Yaz23]

THANK YOU Theresa and John you at least see what Ive been talking about. Everyone is jumping on the band wagon and not realizing there HASNT BEEN ANY EVIDENCE it was even pnuemonia to begin with. There ISNT evidence of anything yet. All there are, is words that have been passed from David to the internet. I havent received a phone call yet either. Wheres my call with the DVMs? I also went to their site, I saw an online form you can fill out and have the most recent info faxed or emailed to you. Do that and post it up on the net. Also, post the emails you have received from the DVMs regarding the necropsy and the comments stated.

Chris, you said "Because if it wasnt for HIM there wouldnt be a report coming back, you are the one that did NOT want a necropsy done."

I told him to not do it because I thought it was hundreds of dollars to have a necropsy done on such a large snake. He didnt inform me it was only $65 until AFTER.


By the way Dave, I contacted my vet this morning and they said it would cost $237 to have a necropsy done on that large of a snake. So dont accuse me of not knowing anything when I thought necropsies are expensive BECAUSE THEY ARE if you go to a Vet. I didnt know about going to a lab considering this has never happened.

 

[Yaz23]

Chris, I spoke to them on the phone this morning, and they informed me that the payment must be upfront and YOU GET A RECEIPT from the payment whether you paid cash or credit you will get a receipt. Then you are assigned a vet. You are then provided with a document stating the case number.

 

[Willow]

Yaz, Im not going to jump to any side

but

you keep stateing that the only reason you told him he shouldnt have a necropsy done is becuase of how much it costs. It dosnt matter that now you know he was able to get it done cheaper. You still indicated to him that he shouldnt get it done

had it been me...and I didn't have a hook up for a $65 necropsy...and I actually listened to what you told me and didnt go get one done....

would you be willing to issue a refund or would I have been SOL?

seems it was better thet the OP didnt listen to you and not go get the necropsy done....it makes no difference weather it was cheap or expensive for him....YOU told him not to do it...therefor had he done what you said, he wouldnt have had any proof anyway on how the snake died

 

[john_]

Yaz, Im not going to jump to any side

but

you keep stateing that the only reason you told him he shouldnt have a necropsy done is becuase of how much it costs. It dosnt matter that now you know he was able to get it done cheaper. You still indicated to him that he shouldnt get it done

had it been me...and I didn't have a hook up for a $65 necropsy...and I actually listened to what you told me and didnt go get one done....

would you be willing to issue a refund or would I have been SOL?

seems it was better thet the OP didnt listen to you and not go get the necropsy done....it makes no difference weather it was cheap or expensive for him....YOU told him not to do it...therefor had he done what you said, he wouldnt have had any proof anyway on how the snake died

Spilt milk at this point, it has been done according to the OP and now we just await the results.

 

[Yaz23]

I told him I'd give him a partial refund either way. When I was informed on Thursday he needed to go to a vet, I told David to call me and let me know so I would pay compensation for the fee.

Then when he called and said the boa died, I was puzzled and asked questions. He mentioned getting a necropsy done. I said I wouldnt because they are extremely expensive. I told him we will work out a refund. He told me I'm going to get a necropsy done anyway and will know within an hour or so what killed him. From there he called me back talking about pnuemonia this and pnuemonia that and he wanted $300 back. Then from there I told him I needed proof if he wanted that much money back.

I wasnt planning on giving him the full $390 back whether he did the necropsy or not. This wasnt my fault nor possibly his. So if I do send the full amount back, then he gets all his money back and I'm on a snake and this WAS NOT MY FAULT so we both should take a hit. I didnt decide upon how much the refund was before he decided to do the necropsy because he decided to do it and then from speculation from the DVMs (as I was told at least, no proof) David told me it was pnuemonia.

 

[Willow]

spilled milk or not....I happen to think its a bit shady to require proof AFTER you already told the person not to obtain it....no matter what it cost, if your requiring proof before issuing a refund then you should not be telling the buyer not to obtain proof

 

[Chrisw]

You get zero documentation saying what was done? You just walk in and say "hey, im the guy with the snake"?

I guess you missed the card with the code on the back?

THANK YOU Theresa and John you at least see what Ive been talking about. Everyone is jumping on the band wagon and not realizing there HASNT BEEN ANY EVIDENCE it was even pnuemonia to begin with. There ISNT evidence of anything yet. All there are, is words that have been passed from David to the internet. I havent received a phone call yet either. Wheres my call with the DVMs? I also went to their site, I saw an online form you can fill out and have the most recent info faxed or emailed to you. Do that and post it up on the net. Also, post the emails you have received from the DVMs regarding the necropsy and the comments stated.

Chris, you said "Because if it wasnt for HIM there wouldnt be a report coming back, you are the one that did NOT want a necropsy done."

I told him to not do it because I thought it was hundreds of dollars to have a necropsy done on such a large snake. He didnt inform me it was only $65 until AFTER.
No matter the cost, if he didnt get it done I feel he would have been SOL

By the way Dave, I contacted my vet this morning and they said it would cost $237 to have a necropsy done on that large of a snake. So dont accuse me of not knowing anything when I thought necropsies are expensive BECAUSE THEY ARE if you go to a Vet. I didnt know about going to a lab considering this has never happened.
You are still arguing the cost of the necropsy even after the website was posted?

My comments are in bold.

 

[Chrisw]

spilled milk or not....I happen to think its a bit shady to require proof AFTER you already told the person not to obtain it....no matter what it cost, if your requiring proof before issuing a refund then you should not be telling the buyer not to obtain proof

I guess you dont get it lmao

 

[Willow]

feel free to elaborate for me Chris...considering my questions and comments where not geared to anything you had stated =p

 

[john_]

I guess you dont get it lmao

I certainly don't get it. Why are people taking the OPs word and not Yaz's? Is it because people have a tendency to be more sympathetic to the buyer? In my opinion if I sold an animal I thought to be in good health and it died suddenly I'd expect the buyer to have some good reason as to why, otherwise I'd think he was trying to get the snake and the money. It only makes sense to expect some type of proof - and that being said, if I was the buyer I'd get every bit of proof I possibly could to ensure I got my money back. Knowing he had the necropsy done (and cheaply) why not just wait for the proof prior to making the demands? Sit back, wait for the data and then proceed.