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Mice eating their babies??

I know this sounds like bull but me and my son inlaw did test the rodent block theory! on 2 batches of babies on on Teklad mouse and rat diet and the other on Scraps,dogFood,Bread,and CornFlakes and nuts and such even Rabbit food too and guess what TEKLAD BABIES grew at 2-3 times faster and Healthier ,fatter and all!
 
Ah ok then, well I'll drop the dog and cat food and try the other stuff and pick up some sunflower seeds too.

As soon as I see a female getting fat, I put her in her own tub. I tried leaving them in with one male and a few other female and the babies were got ate in like 20 minutes. So now I keep the mom alone to have babies.

I'm not being cheap, I'll buy what ever they need and what ever is best for them, I just got what I was told to give them lol..

Amanda
 
I use the teklad too and have had better sucess with it than the crap i was feeding before. I order all my food online since all we have here is petco and wal mart. thecraftyrat.com has all the different varieties of the teklad you can order, you can even mix and match. Also pet food direct carries teklad under the name native earth. You can get a whole 40lb bag at a time and they have coupons frequently if you sign up for email. I buy the 40lb bag when they offer free shipping. Otherwise I get smaller quantities from thecraftyrat.
My babies are definitely fatter and have had more survive on it. I also make sure my rats and mice have plenty of materials to nest with. cut up fleece, scrap tshirts, papertowels, and toilet paper rolls make good nesting material and helps them feel safer. Maybe even putting some sort of hide box in there for them. My thought is that my rodents work for me, so I try to spoil them a little. I think it makes them more productive.
I also wanted to add that none of my rodents are housed alone. So they usually help each other look after the babies, and other females will help nurse them when they both have litters.
 
I'm not familiar with that one. I have used mazuri and while my rats reproduced ok on it, my mice didn't seem to want to have any babies. I think I also used the kaytee brand a long time ago and that seemed ok too, although they did eat a few babies. I've checked the protein content in many commercially available diets and only a couple of the more pricey brands compare to the teklad. I typically use the native earth 18% or the 22% protein block because I don't feed them fresh food very often.
 
Well, you asked for it........

Okay, I'll tell you all what I have found after all the years of producing mice and rats and how I currently feed and house them.

While I am no where near the numbers I was producing a half dozen years or so ago (then I was producing over 1,000 rats a month and at least double that in mice) I am producing enough for my needs as well a number of friends and still have enough to bring pinkies and fuzzies to the 3 shows I am currently vending per month.

Since the subject of this thread is about mice I will tell you about them and how I have them set up.

I have a number of groups set up in ten gallon tanks ranging from 1.5 to 1.7 and have found those numbers have done the best for me in that size tank. I do have a number of other groups set up in larger numbers (2.100) in 2 x 4 galvanized tubs. With the smaller groups I leave them in with the male and other females and only on rare occasions have I encountered cannibalization of the babies and usually only with first time mothers. I have found that it will also happen when there is not enough water not because of not enough food. Meaning, I have had cannibalization of babies when I have had watering issues (leaking bottle, empty bottle or watering system - gravity fed) With the larger groups I remove gravid mothers and return them to the same group after they have nursed their babies. I do a whole enclosure clean and return them all to a cleaned enclosure that lessens the molestation of the returnees by the others.

I am currently feeding Pedigree dog food, sunflower seeds and bread. Since starting up breeding mice again and using the before mentioned feeds I have not had any mice (or rats for that matter) with tumors but I believe that has a lot to do with the stock I started with. My groups are a combination of offspring produced from Harlen stock mixed with some stock from a local vendor who has been breeding mice for longer then some here have even been alive. His mice produce large numbers per pregnancy and those mixed with the Harlen offspring stock are producing very well for me. I have had a few vendors I have sold mice to for their own breeding purposes call them super mice after seeing the amount of offspring being produced from these mice.

The End. :D
 
Josey,

I used these tubs to house the mice, and use cement tubs to house the rats since the rats are bigger and unlikely to get though "gaps".

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Rodent-Cages

I found some Valley rodent chow that's 14.00 a bag for 40 lbs..much cheaper than the $30 something for Mazuri for 50 lbs..I do a mix of both.

Regarding what people say about feeding meat, I haven't found that to be so in my case. Consider: When I first started breeding I did have a high rate of cannibalism. My rationale was that they may need "some" fat in their diets, especially the nursing dams. I started adding meat bi weekly in the "nursing" tubs (no, I don't separate anything but the weaners usually because there are usually too many and they take milk from the newborns)...anyway, since adding meat, I have had zero incidents of cannibalism. Babies that die from suffocation, yes..but they lie there..no one eats them.

I add:
Left over chicken, or fresh hotdogs, fat from steak, etc. They also get, corn on the cob, dried corn from the feed store, carrots, watermelon, apples and I am going to set up the rodent room with lighting on a timer (eventually).

I sometimes mix in cat food (the kind that contains veggies. I was advised to try dog food when I first started breeding my own for both species of rodent, but I didn't find any of the brands that I tried to be benefical at all. Both rodents, however; DO love the "cookie" dog treats.

Both my rats and mice have large litters, I am usually running over with rodents and have to freeze them, then I have to get rid of what's in the freezer to freeze the next batch.

Production slows down in winter (YAY! because the snakes slow down consumption) and I use that time to grow out some of the holdback females take the males out (keep a few) and do the culling. I haven't noticed any skin diseases, any more tumors, etc.

The one problem I do have is when they don't chew the wood, their teeth over grow and I have to cull them.

Hope this helped in some way.
 
I stopped breeding mice about 8 years ago, but the main factors that I found are smell, social interaction, food.

Like mentioned earlier a male who was introduced into the colony while a female was pregnant will kill the babies. That's his way of making sure his genes thrive.

As for food: There are so many things that factor a mouse daily diet. The babies rob the mother of certain nutrients. If she's deficient in certain nutrients she'll take them back. Softest way you can really put that while understanding why.

Socially: Mice need social interaction. I use to put my pregnant rats or mice alone in a 10 gallon glass so the could birth. This has had negative impact on my female breeders. They get lonely which can turn them mean, and as well I've noticed that the mothers get skinnier with each pregnancy while my mothers that are kept in their colonies to have help raising their young grow rapidly.

Also keep looking for ASF's. I don't have a reptile that will turn it away as a meal, and out of probably 70 born in the last three months I've had one loss. Though I've almost lost all my fingers... lol

Good luck Amanda
 
Good solid advice from a long time Breeder(Deborah)

deborahbroadus said:
Josey,

I used these tubs to house the mice, and use cement tubs to house the rats since the rats are bigger and unlikely to get though "gaps".

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Rodent-Cages

I found some Valley rodent chow that's 14.00 a bag for 40 lbs..much cheaper than the $30 something for Mazuri for 50 lbs..I do a mix of both.

Regarding what people say about feeding meat, I haven't found that to be so in my case. Consider: When I first started breeding I did have a high rate of cannibalism. My rationale was that they may need "some" fat in their diets, especially the nursing dams. I started adding meat bi weekly in the "nursing" tubs (no, I don't separate anything but the weaners usually because there are usually too many and they take milk from the newborns)...anyway, since adding meat, I have had zero incidents of cannibalism. Babies that die from suffocation, yes..but they lie there..no one eats them.

I add:
Left over chicken, or fresh hotdogs, fat from steak, etc. They also get, corn on the cob, dried corn from the feed store, carrots, watermelon, apples and I am going to set up the rodent room with lighting on a timer (eventually).

I sometimes mix in cat food (the kind that contains veggies. I was advised to try dog food when I first started breeding my own for both species of rodent, but I didn't find any of the brands that I tried to be benefical at all. Both rodents, however; DO love the "cookie" dog treats.

Both my rats and mice have large litters, I am usually running over with rodents and have to freeze them, then I have to get rid of what's in the freezer to freeze the next batch.

Production slows down in winter (YAY! because the snakes slow down consumption) and I use that time to grow out some of the holdback females take the males out (keep a few) and do the culling. I haven't noticed any skin diseases, any more tumors, etc.

The one problem I do have is when they don't chew the wood, their teeth over grow and I have to cull them.

Hope this helped in some way.
Click to expand...

Deb you are totally right in your advice I to Feed scraps between rodent block.I use Spagetti and Meat Balls,Chicken,Bread DogFood,any cooked Pasta,lettuce,vegetable ends,Cereal,Etc...................................
I will give some piece of advice that I learned the Hard way!
Always I say Always pull a Female from every litter for Replenishing the Colony if noy your colony will dwindle to very few babies in the litter.I always pull1-2 Fat fuzzy Females Standouts for future Breeders:thumbsup:
 
tinmantribe5 said:
Rip Rats! sorry for your Recent Colony loss Amanda could you update us?
Click to expand...

I know, that's absolutely HORRIBLE what happened. I was dead asleep when my wife told me so I don't know if my response to the emails made much sense but I hope she killed that nasty wild one.

I don't know about Amanda, but the hog, chicken, and turkey farms grow some HUGE, NASTY wild rats because of the attractive feed scraps that are made easily available. I've got tons of rat traps around here for that purpose. I'd be heart broken if that happened.

Amanda, I'm really sorry for your loss. That really sucks.
 
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