• In case most of you have not noticed, I made changes to the donation amounts as well as the durations for all of the paid membership levels. Things are winding down here, and this seems to be the most prudent way to deal with the "end of life" period of this site.

    Contributor level members - $10 per 30 days
    Sponsors - Eliminated
    Benefactor level members - $25 per 30 days
    Endowment level members - $50 per 30 days

    Account Upgrades Page
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Bad Guy Stephen Carnicom AKA "scarnicom" is SHADY

Again Diem, thank you for the kind words, and I will deffinatly learn from this. Obviously theres no pleasing everyone and in some peoples eyes I'll always be a bad guy. There was no deal made to be technical, No addresses or information was processed by either of us, so the actual deal or "next step" was never processed.
 
You needn't thank me. I just go by the evidence and by logical reasoning.

I understand what you are saying, but now, unfortunately, you need to prove to anyone that doubts you that you are better than that. So, just let this one go and be smarter. You seem to be a level headed individual so I have no doubt you can accomplish that.
 
ShadowAceD said:
You needn't thank me. I just go by the evidence and by logical reasoning.

I understand what you are saying, but now, unfortunately, you need to prove to anyone that doubts you that you are better than that. So, just let this one go and be smarter. You seem to be a level headed individual so I have no doubt you can accomplish that.
Click to expand...

:iagree::iagree:

Reading the WHOLE story and not just the parts the OP wanted us to read, I am more certain than ever that the transaction did NOT warrant a "Bad Guy" thread.

Consider "Wolf" look at the time frame. It looks like the seller got back to the buyer IMMEDIATELY as he realized and not "the next day" which implies that a lot of hours passed instead of the reality of a few.

BUT in that 4 hours (look at the time...the buyer had enough time to pay for the animal and didn't...he expected the seller to wait...how long?:shrug01: Again, I don't see the seller as being a bad guy. Thoughtless, yes but no where in the communication did he come off as trying to get more..it was actually still up to the buyer to agree to the new price or turn it down.

The BOI is not supposed to be a weapon to threaten someone with loss of reputation if they don't give them what they want! I would think twice about doing business with the OP...his emails left a bad taste in my mouth.:rolleyes:
 
deborahbroadus said:
Consider "Wolf" look at the time frame. It looks like the seller got back to the buyer IMMEDIATELY as he realized and not "the next day" which implies that a lot of hours passed instead of the reality of a few.

BUT in that 4 hours (look at the time...the buyer had enough time to pay for the animal and didn't...he expected the seller to wait...how long?:shrug01: Again, I don't see the seller as being a bad guy. Thoughtless, yes but no where in the communication did he come off as trying to get more..it was actually still up to the buyer to agree to the new price or turn it down.
Click to expand...

I am looking at the time frame.

From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 12:48:24 AM
Subject: Re: burm pics




ok you win lol. ill do 165. get at me thanks
Click to expand...

The OP responded that he would accept the $165 price at almost 1am. After he sent that.... maybe... just maybe he went to bed. Maybe he expected to get up in the morning with a paypal invoice waiting on him. Maybe he had to work the next day (and before someone says... but it would be Sunday...not all of us get weekends off)

Who knows :shrug01:

I can say that if I agreed to 165 and went to bed and woke up to an email sayin... nope... changed my mind... I want 210... Id be pissed to.

Although... I do agree that he shouldnt have used the BOI as a tactic to pressure the buyer into sticking with the original 165. That was wrong on the buyers part.


The BOI is not supposed to be a weapon to threaten someone with loss of reputation if they don't give them what they want! I would think twice about doing business with the OP...his emails left a bad taste in my mouth.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
 
After reading this thread, I'd likely give the seller a chance.

I'd definitely avoid the buyer. Talk about a childish, hair-trigger temper... I think everyone can see what's REALLY going on here, can't we? :rolleyes:

THREAD SUMMARY: Buyer managed to talk Seller into a fantastic deal (for Buyer), and when it fell through (yes, shady, but not "bad guy" material), threw what amounts to a 2nd-grade temper tantrum complete with threats and whining.

Yes, I'd say VERY informative thread! :)
 
Southern Wolf said:
I am looking at the time frame.



The OP responded that he would accept the $165 price at almost 1am. After he sent that.... maybe... just maybe he went to bed. Maybe he expected to get up in the morning with a paypal invoice waiting on him. Maybe he had to work the next day (and before someone says... but it would be Sunday...not all of us get weekends off)

Who knows :shrug01:

I can say that if I agreed to 165 and went to bed and woke up to an email sayin... nope... changed my mind... I want 210... Id be pissed to.

Although... I do agree that he shouldnt have used the BOI as a tactic to pressure the buyer into sticking with the original 165. That was wrong on the buyers part.


The BOI is not supposed to be a weapon to threaten someone with loss of reputation if they don't give them what they want! I would think twice about doing business with the OP...his emails left a bad taste in my mouth.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

What did Chuck teach us about going by the FACTS and not what we "think" may have happened? :ack2:

If he was up at 1AM, he can be up for 30 minutes more (as far as I am concerned it makes no difference in my opinion).

Another factor that I am seeing is:

He didn't ask how to pay for it. My customers when they determine that they want to purchase from me, ask me should they pay though the website, or will I send an invoice..or how should they pay for it...these are questions that SERIOUS buyers ask. They DON'T get a price and go to bed. :D Serious buyers KNOW that nothing is guaranteed till the MONEY is in.:reddevil:
 
The way i see this

1, the bad guy post is warranted , why post something for sale and agree on a price shipped b4 you actually research the price of what you are selling . to me a verbal agreement is very important and someone who goes back on your word is someone to never do business with .

2, josh trying to use the BOI as a way to blackmail a deal off someone is also worthy of a bad guy thread and someone else never to deal with . no matter what its never justified to blackmail someone .
 
How did the buyer talk him into a good deal. The buyer requested $150 and the seller said no... but I'll take $165

scarnicom said:
Also thank you Diem, for not making me out to be a horrible person.

Also here is the entire email conversation, not just the bad parts. from bottom to top in order.





you literally said "ill do 165 shipped" dont get greedy dude. take up the other offers if you want but it will cost you your reputation.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
To: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 1:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics


LOL, your crazy, I just checked it out. I apologize, but I was unaware of the value of the albino. Do what you must, but I'm not going to sell a 250 dollar albino for 165 shipped. Imade a mistake and nothing was finalized at all. I have several other hits that happened last night, and people are wanting to take me up ont the 210 shipped, so pass it up if you must.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 12:10:25 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics


are you kidding me? what are you talking about?. you cant up the price after we negotiated. we already agreed on a price dude. it is settled. just because you sold a snake for cheap and found out its worth more is not my problem. it is yours. YOUR PROBLEM NOT MINE. no going back now. im not paying 210. ill pay 165 shipped as we agreed and thats final. if you back out, there will be repercussions. you want the 165 for the snake or the bad rep on fauna. im already starting my BOI on you. i will not post it if you follow through on your original price. let me know what you wanna do. . . .






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
To: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 4:14:27 AM
Subject: Re: burm pics


Hey just figured out actual cost of albino burms is pushing the 250's+ shipping. best I can do now is 210 shipped. sorry.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 12:48:24 AM
Subject: Re: burm pics




ok you win lol. ill do 165. get at me thanks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
To: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 11:14:05 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics


I could do 165 shipped.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 10:31:33 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics


yea for sure. i like the color. nice white. i prefer the bright orange on this one opposed to some of the yellow looking ones. would you do $150 shipped?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
To: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 10:26:23 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics


It's fine, but i'm not really looking for trades right now. Thank you though. did you get the pics?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 10:23:19 PM
Subject: Re: burm pics


i accidentally sent you someone elses email about the pastel. lol. i have some stuff for trade too. you interested in a trade? thanks.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 10:12:37 PM
Subject: burm pics


here are a couple more
Click to expand...
 
deborahbroadus said:
If he was up at 1AM, he can be up for 30 minutes more (as far as I am concerned it makes no difference in my opinion).
Click to expand...

The sellers next email was sent after 4am... so even if the buyer was up for an additional 30 mins... it would not have mattered.

Another factor that I am seeing is:

He didn't ask how to pay for it. My customers when they determine that they want to purchase from me, ask me should they pay though the website, or will I send an invoice..or how should they pay for it...these are questions that SERIOUS buyers ask. They DON'T get a price and go to bed. :D Serious buyers KNOW that nothing is guaranteed till the MONEY is in.:reddevil:
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this one. All my serious buyers ask me how I want to handle the payment once they agree to the price.

And just so Im clear.... I dont think the buyer is in the right 100% either... he shouldnt have used the BOI as a tactic to force the seller back to the original price.

But as a seller... dont set a price then change it 3 hours later after you have agreed on the original price with a buyer.
 
In looking at the sellers ad for the albino and a nomal (he wanted to sell them as a pair), it looks like he accepts only money orders AND will ship 2nd day air.

Sorry, but upping the price after negotiating & accepting an offer, taking only money orders and shipping live animals 2nd day are all iffy .... especially 2nd day shipping. That's totally unacceptable.
 
He put options for both Next Day and 2nd Day. Stating just the 2nd Day is misconstruing the facts. While I would never ship an animal 2nd Day, I have had people ask me to do it. I have also known people to get animals fine from 2nd Da.
 
And a lot of sellers only accept checks or money orders and a lot of them have had successful transactions. None of that is relevant for the reason this BOI thread was created.

Some people honestly steer clear of PayPal because they can actually get an item disputed unjustly. I've seen it happen. It's happened to me on eBay and I lost the dispute for the refund. The buyer got the money back even though I know he recieved the package. It is a matter of preference. If people are concerned of these preferences, they need not deal with that person.

As for the buyer himself deserving a Bad Guy Thread I, again, disagree. The guy got heated, emotional and made a brash decision that is an overreaction, but not deserving of a Bad Guy Thread. Another information thread, sure, but not a Bad Guy. He made a mistake, as did the seller. The seller has admitted to this. The buyer has not, but that is okay. We can see from his e-mails he used the BOI specifically to get what he wanted and for nothing more than that.
 
Inquiry, Bad Guy Thread, Caution, etc. There are some good points on the differencing perspectives. The titling of a thread is up to the thread starter but of course it's open to scrutiny by the readers. Thread starters should have their ducks lined up to prove what they state but I beleive in this case reasonable people can look at from both points of view.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have started a thread but you can bet I would have let anyone inquiring about the seller know of my experience and I would never try to do business with the individual/company again.

I don't fault the original poster for making a thread and this is why.
I agree with Deborah to a point.
Deborah said:
Sorry, I disagree with your assessment of the situation. No money has exchanged hands. Buyers always agree to buy something and change their minds or don't follow through with the transaction. In my opinion (yeah, I know, I know...), if those buyers that changed their minds on a transaction and backed out, don't deserve a "Bad Guy" thread, neither does a seller.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is true that most sellers who have started a "bad guy" thread on a window shopping buyer have been meet with "no transaction, no deal" but that hasn't been the case as far as sellers. Considering, Fauna's membership for a very long time was comprised of mostly breeders and we were more a strictly business related forum surrendering the BOI, we have also held sellers to a higher obligation to doing great business.

I strongly disagree with this point.
if those buyers that changed their minds on a transaction and backed out, don't deserve a "Bad Guy" thread, neither does a seller.
Click to expand...

Someone looking to buy isn't necessarily in business. Sellers most certainly should be held to a higher standard.

To the person who stated that he is just inexperienced and lacking knowledge of reptiles-

It doesn't matter. If your selling you are in business and should know what your selling and the price before you offer your product. It does take time to learn about what your keeping and to gain experience. It doesn't take time to offer good customer service. It doesn't take to exhibit good character.

I also don't feel that the title of the thread isn't the salient point. At some point the information contained is diminished by the constant focus on the title. You simply don't offer something at one price and then change your mind once you have agreed to it. It just isn't right. he you priced yourself low, you EAT IT. You then have customer that will sing your praises. The seller handle this bad. Lacking any professionalism.

To the seller. People should always price their animals to what they feel they are worth. You obviously felt this animal had the worth advertised. As you stated, you looked around at noticed people were selling them more. So you want more. You find out quickly that most of us here that the money is secondary to love of this hobby and those of us that make it a business learn that customer service is foremost. You exhibited neither.
 
People do dumb things when they get upset. If it was a consistent occurance, yes, I would support it. However, this gentleman was upset and felt he had been wronged so he used whatever devices he had to try and get that point across. He went about it the wrong way, sure, but, again, no need to label him as a Bad Guy because of it. I would feel better if he would come here and apologize, but I cannot expect that, nor can anyone else. The BOI should not be used as a weapon, ever, nor should it be used to get back at people.
 
ShadowAceD said:
And a lot of sellers only accept checks or money orders and a lot of them have had successful transactions. None of that is relevant for the reason this BOI thread was created.

Some people honestly steer clear of PayPal because they can actually get an item disputed unjustly. I've seen it happen. It's happened to me on eBay and I lost the dispute for the refund. The buyer got the money back even though I know he recieved the package. It is a matter of preference. If people are concerned of these preferences, they need not deal with that person.

As for the buyer himself deserving a Bad Guy Thread I, again, disagree. The guy got heated, emotional and made a brash decision that is an overreaction, but not deserving of a Bad Guy Thread. Another information thread, sure, but not a Bad Guy. He made a mistake, as did the seller. The seller has admitted to this. The buyer has not, but that is okay. We can see from his e-mails he used the BOI specifically to get what he wanted and for nothing more than that.
Click to expand...

:iagree::iagree::iagree:
 
back on point...it was never in dispute that the seller should keep his word and that he was wrong for changing his mind....

However, it's been shown that the buyer didn't have the best motives (or highest ethics) himself in starting this thread. :)

So do the two wrongs cancel out each other? LOL
 
Back
Top