Bad Guy Stephen Carnicom AKA "scarnicom" is SHADY

[tinmantribe5]

Its kinda like 4 corners with a car dealer on each corner Ford,Chevy,Dodge,Toyota
well we all know that Toyotas has problems,but the more you bag on them the more of their Customers that will say they are Loyal members!(If hes a bad guy let him hang himself!)
A bad Built Ship will sink on its Own without any help!

 

[scaledverts]

Like I said, it is a tough situation. I guess to me it breaks down to someone doing something unethical. Being unethical in a business transaction = bad guy in my book. Others may disagree and that is fine.

 

[deborahbroadus]

****Hey just figured out actual cost of albino burms is pushing the 250's+ shipping. best I can do now is 210 shipped. sorry.

From: Josh Fosburg <[email protected]>
To: stephen carnicom <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, May 15, 2010 12:48:24 AM
Subject: Re: burm pics


ok you win lol. ill do 165. get at me thanks

Stephen, I am curious. The other emails have headings. What's the heading of the last email when he changed his mind (the one with ****).

 

[deborahbroadus]

JOSH, I am curious. The other emails have headings. What's the heading of the last email when he changed his mind (the one with ****).

Oooops..sorry Mean JOSH.

 

[Southern Wolf]

waaaaaaiiiittt...As many times as we have all agreed that transactions are not finalized until money has exchanged hands?

As many times as we have agreed that up to that point of money exchanging hands either party has the right to change their minds?

Sorry, I disagree with your assessment of the situation. No money has exchanged hands. Buyers always agree to buy something and change their minds or don't follow through with the transaction. In my opinion (yeah, I know, I know...), if those buyers that changed their minds on a transaction and backed out, don't deserve a "Bad Guy" thread, neither does a seller.

Deb... since me and you have chatted about one of your animals... I will use you as an example.

Lets say I contact you while I am at work about an female albino BP... you say you have one (which I know you dont ) and that she will cost me $350. I agree to the amount you set, and I tell you that I will get you paid when I get home because I dont have access to the funds at work.

I get home from work and get ready to send the money your way for payment and I get an email from you stating that you have looked online and found out you priced your animal too low and now want $450 for the BP.

The deal was done... I agreed to your original price, but you are now changing the deal in mid transaction. That is the makings of a bad guy in my book.

I will agree with you that no money changed hands... and that buyers back out all the time after they say they will buy something. In my way of thinking... this is a completely different situation because a price WAS agreed to, but the seller decided to get greedy because he found out he could possibly make more money. He changed the terms of the sale in mid transaction. To me this is worse than a buyer just deciding they dont want the animal afterall... because quite frankly... Im not taking the animal down for sale until I have money in hand.

If my way of thinking is skewed... then enlighten me... and I will consider changing my way of thinking... but I feel Im right on the mark with this one.

 

[Gecko_Den]

I would tend to disagree. They had a agreement to purchase at an agreed upon price and "scarnicom" broke their agreement. Technically speaking, it is breach of contract.

IMO: Definately worthy of a BOI thread.

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley

Ummm, "technically" speaking, it isn't a breach of contract as they had not yet entered into a legally binding contract...

 

[deborahbroadus]

Deb... since me and you have chatted about one of your animals... I will use you as an example.

Lets say I contact you while I am at work about an female albino BP... you say you have one (which I know you dont ) and that she will cost me $350. I agree to the amount you set, and I tell you that I will get you paid when I get home because I dont have access to the funds at work.

I get home from work and get ready to send the money your way for payment and I get an email from you stating that you have looked online and found out you priced your animal too low and now want $450 for the BP.

The deal was done... I agreed to your original price, but you are now changing the deal in mid transaction. That is the makings of a bad guy in my book.

I will agree with you that no money changed hands... and that buyers back out all the time after they say they will buy something. In my way of thinking... this is a completely different situation because a price WAS agreed to, but the seller decided to get greedy because he found out he could possibly make more money. He changed the terms of the sale in mid transaction. To me this is worse than a buyer just deciding they dont want the animal afterall... because quite frankly... Im not taking the animal down for sale until I have money in hand.

If my way of thinking is skewed... then enlighten me... and I will consider changing my way of thinking... but I feel Im right on the mark with this one.

I'm waiting for an answer to my question to Josh about the heading of the last email. The timeing may change MY mind. IMO, a lot hinges on how fast the seller changed his mind, but it doesn't look like Josh explained what took so long to send the money after the agreement. How long was it after the agreement that the seller had time to change his mind...

In our example, I assume that as soon as the price is agreed on..the money is on the way..so either of us actually COULD post a Bad Guy thread then.

But in short..there was no SALE. He stated a price, but the buyer hadn't LOCKED in the price. I am not saying that I agree with the seller's methods. I'm just saying that imo the transaction didn't rate a "Bad Guy" thread.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Like I said, it is a tough situation. I guess to me it breaks down to someone doing something unethical. Being unethical in a business transaction = bad guy in my book. Others may disagree and that is fine.

There have been alot of people on the BOI that have been labeled (and dare I say... proven) to be a bad guy because of unethnical business dealings. Just because money didnt exchange hands doesn't mean you cant be a bad guy in business.

You take someone that doctors their for sale photos to make them look better than they really are... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

You take someone that steals other people photos and represents them as their own.... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

You take someone that sells the same animal over and over using the same photo.... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

The point I am trying to make is this.... Bad Business Ethics = Bad Guy. Maybe... just maybe... the fact that these issues getting brought out before money changes hands will save someone from having to fight to get their money back. If your gonna do shady stuff in the beginning... then your gonna do shady stuff when something goes wrong with the transaction.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Deb... since me and you have chatted about one of your animals... I will use you as an example.

Lets say I contact you while I am at work about an female albino BP... you say you have one (which I know you dont ) and that she will cost me $350. I agree to the amount you set, and I tell you that I will get you paid when I get home because I dont have access to the funds at work.

I get home from work and get ready to send the money your way for payment and I get an email from you stating that you have looked online and found out you priced your animal too low and now want $450 for the BP.

The deal was done... I agreed to your original price, but you are now changing the deal in mid transaction. That is the makings of a bad guy in my book.

I will agree with you that no money changed hands... and that buyers back out all the time after they say they will buy something. In my way of thinking... this is a completely different situation because a price WAS agreed to, but the seller decided to get greedy because he found out he could possibly make more money. He changed the terms of the sale in mid transaction. To me this is worse than a buyer just deciding they dont want the animal afterall... because quite frankly... Im not taking the animal down for sale until I have money in hand.

If my way of thinking is skewed... then enlighten me... and I will consider changing my way of thinking... but I feel Im right on the mark with this one.

Ok, let me answer this from another perspective. In this example the price was agreed to and you gave me a time frame in which to expect the money. If I changed on you in this example, I would be worthy of a Bad Guy thread. Hence me wanting to see the answer regarding the heading of the last email.

Changing minds, last I heard, was not a crime, raising prices is not a crime..but in this instance, he picked a bad time to change his mind..does that mean he's a "bad guy" or "unethical" he may have felt that the OP was lowballing him when he found out how much the animals go for.

 

[chongorojo]

There have been alot of people on the BOI that have been labeled (and dare I say... proven) to be a bad guy because of unethnical business dealings. Just because money didnt exchange hands doesn't mean you cant be a bad guy in business.

You take someone that doctors their for sale photos to make them look better than they really are... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

You take someone that steals other people photos and represents them as their own.... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

You take someone that sells the same animal over and over using the same photo.... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

The point I am trying to make is this.... Bad Business Ethics = Bad Guy. Maybe... just maybe... the fact that these issues getting brought out before money changes hands will save someone from having to fight to get their money back. If your gonna do shady stuff in the beginning... then your gonna do shady stuff when something goes wrong with the transaction.

(If all the proof is accurate!)

A verbal agrement was made between a seller and a buyer (who is always given the most benefit of doubt?... the buyer) That is just a bout the same as a hand shake followed by spit in the eye I'm my opinion... and really would ANY REPUTABLE seller raise their selling point with a deal made?? I know I sure as heck wouldn't especially for $85!! We all have buyers back out after telling us they will take the animal, nature of a luxury business but thhats when you put them on the cash up front list! (Well at least I do)

 

[ShadowAceD]

There have been alot of people on the BOI that have been labeled (and dare I say... proven) to be a bad guy because of unethnical business dealings. Just because money didnt exchange hands doesn't mean you cant be a bad guy in business.

You take someone that doctors their for sale photos to make them look better than they really are... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

You take someone that steals other people photos and represents them as their own.... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

You take someone that sells the same animal over and over using the same photo.... are they not bad guys even though money hasnt changed hands.

The point I am trying to make is this.... Bad Business Ethics = Bad Guy. Maybe... just maybe... the fact that these issues getting brought out before money changes hands will save someone from having to fight to get their money back. If your gonna do shady stuff in the beginning... then your gonna do shady stuff when something goes wrong with the transaction.

That is making a great deal of assumptions though. Who is to say this guy is not just an inexperienced seller who does not realize that his actions make him questionable? He was not misrepresenting an animal, that would be a different situation all together. No matter if money is involved or not. None of the evidence shown makes it out that this guy was misrepresenting anything or purposefully trying to scam someone. No proof means it did not happen.

You state yourself that maybe the fact that these issues getting brought out before money changes hands will save someone ... well, that is a big maybe and, again, an assumption. Maybe he would have been able to debate the point to him that the agreed upon price was the fair one. Maybe the seller would have eventually agreed to that. Maybe the seller was definitely going to send him the animal if he paid the elevated pricing. Maybe a lot of things could have happened, but there is no evidence of this.

To post someone as a Bad Guy on the BOI based on pretenses, assumptions or "maybe" is not what these threads are for. These threads are for confirmed Bad Guy dealings such as proven scammers. Changing your mind on a price does not make you a scammer. And if people really want to keep using car dealerships as an example, please think of the "ethics" or car salesmen or even the "ethics" of many doctors. They are unfair comparisons to be using in this situation.

This guy does not deserve a Bad Guy thread and I hope anyone that sees this in the future will actually read it and make an educated decision based upon the information provided.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Ok, let me answer this from another perspective. In this example the price was agreed to and you gave me a time frame in which to expect the money. If I changed on you in this example, I would be worthy of a Bad Guy thread. Hence me wanting to see the answer regarding the heading of the last email.

Ok... found the info for ya from his first post.

he offered me $165 shipped. the next morning he emailed me. he told me the he had been searching around and found that albino burms were around $250 or something. he then proceeded to tell me that he has to up the price to $210.

Changing minds, last I heard, was not a crime, raising prices is not a crime..but in this instance, he picked a bad time to change his mind..does that mean he's a "bad guy" or "unethical" he may have felt that the OP was lowballing him when he found out how much the animals go for.

From the first post... buyer asked for 150... seller said no but will do 165... buyer agreed to 165. I cant see how that was lowballing.. the buyer agreed to the sellers higher price.

The seller then went and got greedy once he realized how much they were selling for elsewhere.

 

[ALLIN1]

I just recently did a trade with steve it went smooth and im totally satisfied but i can say that yes steve is very un educated about reptiles all around.Im not saying what he did was ok because it wasnt but i wouldnt call him a bad guy he just has some learning to do give him some time and give him a break hes new to all of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SHELBY

 

[deborahbroadus]

Ok... found the info for ya from his first post.

he offered me $165 shipped. the next morning he emailed me. he told me the he had been searching around and found that albino burms were around $250 or something. he then proceeded to tell me that he has to up the price to $210.



From the first post... buyer asked for 150... seller said no but will do 165... buyer agreed to 165. I cant see how that was lowballing.. the buyer agreed to the sellers higher price.

The seller then went and got greedy once he realized how much they were selling for elsewhere.

THE NEXT MORNING.. my, how time flies.

I agree with ShadowAce..a lot of assumptions are being thrown around.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Diem ... I am not making assumptions... I am stating facts from previous threads right here on the BOI.

As to saving other folks... that also is NOT an assumption. It is as well fact right from these very own BOI threads. I have seen numerous times where someone was thinking about doing business with someone then decided against it because of their actions that was brought to light here.

 

[ShadowAceD]

But one BOI Thread does not dictate another. So, yes, for this seller, that is an assumption. You are saying because similiar threads have popped up in the past and those people, later on, have been proven to be "Bad Guys" means this thread is justified. No, it is not.

 

[Southern Wolf]

THE NEXT MORNING.. my, how time flies.

I agree with ShadowAce..a lot of assumptions are being thrown around.

Ok... this will be an assumption... maybe the buyer had to transfer funds to his paypal account from his bank account.. and thus "the next morning"

I dont know.

What I do know is that I have made a deal for an animal while at work... then I had to work over... and didnt get the money transfered till the next day. In that case I did however notify the seller of the delay in payment.

 

[Southern Wolf]

But one BOI Thread does not dictate another. So, yes, for this seller, that is an assumption. You are saying because similiar threads have popped up in the past and those people, later on, have been proven to be "Bad Guys" means this thread is justified. No, it is not.

The seller is free to come here and pleed his case.

From what I can see .... the seller set the price... the buyer agreed to it... and before the buyer could get him paid (less than 24 hours)... the seller jacked up the price.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I still fail to see how that warrants a Bad Guy Thread.

 

[Southern Wolf]

I still fail to see how that warrants a Bad Guy Thread.

Lets say that I produce Sunglow boas next year and you decide to buy one from me for $300. We both agree to this price and I am the one that set this price. Then before you get a chance to pay me (less than 24 hrs later) I do some searching online and realize I priced him way too low and I contact you and tell you... I cant do $300 for him... He's too cheap... but I can sell him to you for $450. (which is prolly still cheap for a sunglow... )

How does this not make me a bad guy. We already had an agreed upon price that I set. You didnt haggle me down to $300... I set that price.

So with that in mind... punch holes in my logic. Im open to hear how Im wrong... you never know... you may change my mind.

The seller is free to come here and pleed his case.

From what I can see .... the seller set the price... the buyer agreed to it... and before the buyer could get him paid (less than 24 hours)... the seller jacked up the price.