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UPS Snake Awareness - "we dont ship snakes! "

Southern Wolf said:
RIPster = Reptster

David Young was proven here to be a bad apple in the herp industry.... basically he came before ShipYourReptiles.com

He set up the same thing with FedEx.... but he didnt tell FedEx about it :rofl:
Click to expand...

OMG how do people do this.... I was gonna say and get away with it, but apparently he didn't get away with it huh?!:rofl:
 
Nope... he actually got busted by a show promoter... then it just snowballed from there.

there is a HUGE thread on the BOI about it.... hope you have a week or so to read it all... it will open your eyes to a few other folks in the reptile hobby too.
 
if that is the case.. then why would you want to do business with UPS... becasue they are setting you up for failure.
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
Donna I am curious...what makes you think the "Additional info in pouch" is Lacey Act Compliant?
Click to expand...

Probably because that what USF&W says.

50 CFR 14
(the labeling requirements referenced in the Lacey Act)

Option One

(i) Conspicuously marking the outside of each container or package containing fish or wildlife with the word “fish” or “wildlife” as appropriate for its contents, or with the common name of its contents by species, and

(ii) Including an invoice, packing list, bill of lading, or similar document to accompany the shipment which accurately states the name and address of the shipper and consignee, states the total number of packages or containers in the shipment, and for each species in the shipment specifies:

(A) The common name that identifies the species (examples include: Chinook (or king) salmon; bluefin tuna; and whitetail deer) and whether or not the listed species is venomous; and

(B) The number of that species (or other appropriate measure of quantity such as gross or net weight).​

The invoice, packing list, bill of lading, or equivalent document must be securely attached to the outside of one container or package in the shipment or otherwise physically accompany the shipment in a manner which makes it readily accessible for inspection; or​

Option Two

Affixing the shipper’s wildlife import/export license number preceded by the three letters “FWS” on the outside of each container or package containing fish or wildlife, if the shipper has valid wildlife import/export license issued under authority of 50 CFR part 14. For each shipment marked in accordance with this paragraph, the records maintained under §14.93(c) must include a copy of the invoice, packing list, bill of lading, or other similar document that accurately states the information required by paragraph (a)(1)(ii) of this section.​

Option Three

In the case of subcontainers or packages within a larger packing container, only the outermost container must be marked in accordance with this section. Except, that for live fish or wildlife that are packed in subcontainers within a larger packing container, if the subcontainers are numbered or labeled, the packing list, invoice, bill or lading, or other similar document, must reflect that number or label. However, each subcontainer containing a venomous species must be clearly marked as venomous.​

Option Four

A conveyance (truck, plane, boat, etc.) is not considered a container for purposes of requiring specific marking of the conveyance itself, provided that:

(i) The fish or wildlife within the conveyance is carried loosely or is readily identifiable, and is accompanied by the document required by paragraph (a)(1)(ii) of this section, or

(ii) The fish or wildlife is otherwise packaged and marked in accordance with this subpart.​
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Probably because that what USF&W says.

50 CFR 14
(the labeling requirements referenced in the Lacey Act)

Option One

(i) Conspicuously marking the outside of each container or package containing fish or wildlife with the word “fish” or “wildlife” as appropriate for its contents, or with the common name of its contents by species, and​
Click to expand...

And thus those that label the outside of the box as "Live Harmless Reptiles" should cover the first part of that requirement.


(ii) Including an invoice, packing list, bill of lading, or similar document to accompany the shipment which accurately states the name and address of the shipper and consignee, states the total number of packages or containers in the shipment, and for each species in the shipment specifies:

(A) The common name that identifies the species (examples include: Chinook (or king) salmon; bluefin tuna; and whitetail deer) and whether or not the listed species is venomous; and

(B) The number of that species (or other appropriate measure of quantity such as gross or net weight).​

The invoice, packing list, bill of lading, or equivalent document must be securely attached to the outside of one container or package in the shipment or otherwise physically accompany the shipment in a manner which makes it readily accessible for inspection; or
Click to expand...

And those of us that include a invoice in the box with common, tax, and quanity should cover the second part if I am reading this correctly

although... from here on out... I will start putting the invoice in the label pouch.. that way it is on the OUTSIDE of the container.
 
Exactly, Kevin. "Readily accessible" could mean in a pouch on the outside of the box or between the cardboard and the styrofoam (the top of course, not the bottom). I would agree that using the pouches would be the best option so that the boxes don't have to be actually opened to determine contents.
 
StrictlyExotics said:
Thank you for posting this Stephanie. This gives a detailed instruction on how to simply follow the guidelines per the Lacey Act.
Click to expand...

You're welcome. It was a tedious process getting the dang PDF from USF&W. I had to wait several months for a response and explain myself twice before they gave me the exact requirements.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
You're welcome. It was a tedious process getting the dang PDF from USF&W. I had to wait several months for a response and explain myself twice before they gave me the exact requirements.
Click to expand...

In that case.... can one of the mods copy that post into another thread and sticky it. If its that hard to get from them... dont want to loose it in the shuffle of threads moving down.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
You're welcome. It was a tedious process getting the dang PDF from USF&W. I had to wait several months for a response and explain myself twice before they gave me the exact requirements.
Click to expand...

I am relieved to know that I was following what I thought were the guidelines by how I did it.

Kevin, thank you for also letting me know how you do it last night as well. Was a great conversation for two people who generally dont like speaking to people. I will be doing the invoice inside the box between the styrofoam and cardboard as you suggested.
 
Southern Wolf said:
In that case.... can one of the mods copy that post into another thread and sticky it. If its that hard to get from them... dont want to loose it in the shuffle of threads moving down.
Click to expand...

If you click here you can download the full PDF from my server (it's also listed on on my website in my Shipping Live Harmless Reptiles article...which looks like may need to be amended with all this going down with SYR...). I also have the full Lacey Act PDF from them, click here.
 
Do you realize it was 5:30 this morning before I got in bed? After I got off the phone with you I still watched my movie :rofl:

The pouches that I use with my labels are resealable... so I may start putting the invoices inside that pouch... then adding a sticker to the outside saying "invoice in pouch under label"
 
It took me quite a lot of searching to find all of the documents associated with labeling under the Lacey Act. The most important one is the one just posted here. Putting the information on the species and number inside of the box is NOT sufficient--it clearly states that this information should accompany the shipment, and gives the example of it being in a pouch attached to the outside of the box. If it is inside the package, it is not readily accessible. They would have to cut the tape and open the box, and then re-seal it in order to get the info--that's not acceptable. Remember, the point of this is that ANYONE handling the package can quickly check what is in the box while it is en route.

No one who doesn't care or doesn't need to know is going to open up the shipping label pouch to look, so those who want the info away from the prying eyes of most handlers can still satisfy their paranoia by putting it there. The important part is to make a note that the info is there--as the instructions posted here demand.

Officials who need the info then know exactly where to look and can get it quickly.

This is good for them, for you, and for the animal, as it means less delay.

I've tried to share this information, and posted that document myself before, but people just don't seem to read it.

So, again--putting the invoice or information INSIDE of the box only is NOT in compliance with the Lacey Act. It must be accessible without opening the box.

People go around in circles over this--they want to hide that information. It's illegal to hide that information. There's no grey area here. EVERYONE should be complying with the Lacey Act. It's easy! It's good for the herp community--we need good publicity. Having HUGE numbers of people shipping animals illegally is BAD publicity, and the time is ripe for them to crack down on it, and catch hundreds of people who are doing it. They're just itching for more ways to make us look bad.

Don't let yourself be part of the problem that way.
 
WingedWolf said:
Putting the information on the species and number inside of the box is NOT sufficient--it clearly states that this information should accompany the shipment, and gives the example of it being in a pouch attached to the outside of the box. If it is inside the package, it is not readily accessible. They would have to cut the tape and open the box, and then re-seal it in order to get the info--that's not acceptable. Remember, the point of this is that ANYONE handling the package can quickly check what is in the box while it is en route.
Click to expand...

WingedWolf said:
So, again--putting the invoice or information INSIDE of the box only is NOT in compliance with the Lacey Act. It must be accessible without opening the box.
Click to expand...

For arguments sake, that is not exactly true. I agree strongly that a pouch is the best option to prevent opening of packages, but 50 CFR 15 does not say it is not acceptable to be on top of the packing material (styrofoam) nor did the USF&W representative I spoke with state otherwise. "Readily accessible" and "physically accompany" can mean different things depending on who you talk to. Again, I agree it is the best method...But as far as a packing list being included directly inside the package being a violation of the Lacey Act...No, I have not seen any documentation or been told that is the case by any Official...Nothing that I've seen (or been told) states that it has to be accessible without opening the box.
 
Honestly, if we could just get people to label the outside packages appropriately to start, I think we'd be taking a huge step in the right direction. So many don't even do that! :ack2:
 
Wraith said:
The links don't go to any pdf documents... just a blog page.
Click to expand...

O, booger. I forgot I cleaned out my server. :rolleyes: Thank you for letting me know. I've attached 50 CFR 15 with this message...I'll have to dig for the Lacey Act PDF.
 

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