Info Just got this from SYR

[Southern Wolf]

I'm not going to butt heads with you, you've already shown you're not flexible or interested in a point of view that differs from yours in previous threads.
I will say that your definition of the wording used by FedEx is irrelevant. They hold the power to let you ship, or not let you ship and as is the case when it comes to big businesses the only definition of "breeder" in this case that matters is theirs. If it makes you feel better you can continue to state that you are following FedEx rules ad nauseam, but until you have definitive proof of their interpretation of their rules, it is a moot point...

I have also shown in other threads that if I am wrong I will admit it

 

[sillygeck]

I am so brand new to this whole reptile thing that it still amazes me to this day that ANIMALS are shipped via mail as to speak. I come from the big furry animal world. So maybe I am looking at this from a different point of view?

I have received reptiles (geckos) via Fed Ex as well as UPS. Fed Ex to a store that a friend owns and UPS to my house. And the only thing I could ever think off is "oh my god, I hope all goes well...my new pets are in a paperbox in the mail!".

Part of my work is dealing with international freight forwarding companies that ship large animals. My whole life I have been involved in animal related industries. I have no problem with animals as an investment or as pets. Either one is fine with me as long as they are treated well.

If something happens to an animal during transport, one person will be upset mainly about money lost, the other will mourn the pet. Both are legit.

Having said this, I is mind boggling to me that anyone would even attempt to be deceitful in any way when it comes to labeling. Should the safety of the animal (as in lets not risk it being held up anywhere under god knows what conditions in a paperbox for whatever legit or stupid reason) not be the foremost thing on my mind? Not just simple convenience?

Granted, a few weeks ago I showed a friend of mine SYR website when he had all kinds of reason for not wanting to ship. Instant quotes, instant labels, hey, how much easier does it get? Very convenient! Then I read about all of this. Personally, this is me only, not speaking for anyone else...there is no way I would even attempt to ship anything remotely snakelike through this company until it is officially cleared and in plain sight that UPS will accept snakes that are processed through SYR. And of course I see absolutely no reason why they should! And this is not about SYR. But about the fact that there is not a single person on the ground that can possibly assure to UPS that snakes processed through a company of the format of SYR or another one like it, are packaged any better than Joe Blow of the road. Which I assume is one of the reasons they do not want to ship. After all, I could imagine that if there was issues with animals being a scare to drivers or handlers, they have to consider that.

To me, the only reasonable thing that would make me even reconsider a change in policy if I was UPS would be a brick and mortar store that supervises the correct packaging of the animals on site. Not just for the safety of handlers that do not choose to like or deal with reptiles as well as to make sure that the animals are safely packaged to where they will not be in trouble should something go wrong. One of my geckos got held up due to the plane breaking down in a snowstorm! Imagine just how frantic I was.

When I ship a dog it is all but convenient. But for the most part I know that part of the nonsense stuff (and some of it is a bit silly) truly is to protect my animal.

So, being a newbie to this and thoroughly confused by the thread and what is going on, you may choose to simply ignore my opinion. I just simply could not help but wonder out loud.

 

[Gecko_Den]

I have also shown in other threads that if I am wrong I will admit it

True, but you only admit it after you have been proven wrong; until then you wield your opinions like a sledge hammer and haven't shown yourself open to seeing the possible "other side of the coin". Don't take that wrong Kevin or as a personal attack against you. You are who you are and I am not attempting to judge you; I'm just not looking to get into a head butting competition with you as I believe your head is likely harder than mine.

 

[sillygeck]

And one more thought that just had to pop out, is the reason for the differentiation between a business and residential maybe simply for the fact that a business has people there during business hours to make sure to receive a life shipment while a business run out of a home sometimes does not? Again, trying to make sure it is in the best interest for the animals?

 

[brd7666]

If I was a midlle man making a profit off of other people's packages. I would gladly display the documentation proving that my company was in fact allowed to ship items that were againt the actual shipping company's terms of service. In my opinion it way lay to rest questions and concerns before they were even asked.

It's amazing that just because people can ship something cheaper, that they never even stop to think about whether the company they are going through is honest and truthful. All to save a few bucks, but at what cost?

Saving money is great, but if someone is making a profit off of you and they are lying about their credentials, can you really justify that over a few dollars?

 

[deborahbroadus]

And one more thought that just had to pop out, is the reason for the differentiation between a business and residential maybe simply for the fact that a business has people there during business hours to make sure to receive a life shipment while a business run out of a home sometimes does not? Again, trying to make sure it is in the best interest for the animals?

Yes, according to my representative.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

When I shipped my snakes out last week I called SYR reptiles they told me to tell them there were plants in the box!!!

I don't know how relevent this is, but I was just at the UPS hub at my local Oakland Airport to pick up a package (not reptile related) and they have a big sign listing all prohibited items and after 'alcoholic beverages, firearms' is 'plants, seeds' (also says 'live animals')... so don't think it would do much good to say plants either. just fyi

 

[Wraith]

I don't know how relevent this is, but I was just at the UPS hub at my local Oakland Airport to pick up a package (not reptile related) and they have a big sign listing all prohibited items and after 'alcoholic beverages, firearms' is 'plants, seeds' (also says 'live animals')... so don't think it would do much good to say plants either. just fyi

Honestly.. how can they say they don't allow plants to be shipped.... I often get flowers delivered from florists... in boxes clearly marked as such.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

maybe they have exceptions just like it was posted no 'live animals' but they do accept lizards?

 

[hhmoore]

That is probably a CA thing...they have all sorts of crazy rules about what can be shipped into & within the state.

 

[bsharrah]

Why are people’s egos so fragile that they have to be perceived as perfect to their peers? News flash people - We ain’t perfect all the time. If you have issues with that then there is always therapy I guess.

I will only ship to a Fedex staffed facility primarily because it is in the best interest of the animal and, therefore, in my best interest as the person guaranteeing their live arrival. Am I still violating the conditions of my waiver, to the letter, by addressing it to a residence even though it is being held? I think I am. Will I continue to do it anyway? Yes! Can I sleep at night knowing that? Like a baby!

Where is the line drawn between what is an acceptable level of ethical behavior and what is unacceptable? I can only answer that for me – no one else. I may judge others based on their decisions and that is my prerogative. I may be judged based on the decisions I make and I am cool with that. If, because I’m not 100% in compliance with my waiver, a horrible person to some people and not worthy of their business, that’s fine…can’t make everyone happy.

Robyn’s questions regarding how others ship were direct, and considering the heat he has taken from others, warranted, IMO. Instead of getting direct answers, they were dodged as if the person was running for office. Steph and Kevin – you both have shipped to a residence under your waiver. You know it, and you will probably, knowingly, do it again. It’s ok. It doesn’t make you the devil, and certainly doesn’t make you a bad person. It may make you hypocrites for chastising others for violating the policies of UPS, but that is ok too. We have all been hypocritical at times.

 

[brd7666]

Robyn’s questions regarding how others ship were direct, and considering the heat he has taken from others, warranted, IMO. Instead of getting direct answers, they were dodged as if the person was running for office. Steph and Kevin – you both have shipped to a residence under your waiver. You know it, and you will probably, knowingly, do it again. It’s ok. It doesn’t make you the devil, and certainly doesn’t make you a bad person. It may make you hypocrites for chastising others for violating the policies of UPS, but that is ok too. We have all been hypocritical at times.

You are missing the point. Anyone can ship and break the terms of service of UPS or Fedex. But if you have a middle man who is claiming that he has a waiver to allow others to ship prohibited items through his company, but does not, it is wrong because that company is making a profit on your package, and putting your package in harms way, when you are led to believe everything is on the level.

If you are a paying customer of the middle man service, you should have every right to see the so called waiver. You are spending your money with them. If they can't show the waiver to a paying customer to guarantee that the waiver does indead exist. Then there is no such waiver.

I explained the numbers game here already. This is what it's about.

 

[MiamiExotics]

Actually FEDEX does not care if its a house or a warehouse. It bases your address based on the ZONING of the area.
If you live in a INDUSTRIAL or COMMERCIAL area, but have a house on it, your considered commercial. If you have a business in a house and are ZONED residential, then your a residential address, even if its a string of warehouses.
Believe it or not, they do not look at the "building" but at the ZONING.

 

[Diego Velarde]

I've been away from this thread because I really want to finish reading the thread on The Wise family. I really dont care if FedEx certified people ship to residential addresses or if SYR hasnt made their waiver public as long as the customers are getting what they paid for (a healthy reptile). But I hate to see people trying to sound like they're perfect on everything they do. I mean sht, I take a piss outside the bar when there's a line in the bathroom, I text on my phone on a red light, I jaywalk, heck... I'm no saint and for that I dont point my fingers at anyone unless they are BAD GUYS and are only in it to screw people over.

I read the last page of this thread to make a quick attempt of getting an update and IMO this is a hell of a post, I couldn't say it any better:

Why are people’s egos so fragile that they have to be perceived as perfect to their peers? News flash people - We ain’t perfect all the time. If you have issues with that then there is always therapy I guess.

I will only ship to a Fedex staffed facility primarily because it is in the best interest of the animal and, therefore, in my best interest as the person guaranteeing their live arrival. Am I still violating the conditions of my waiver, to the letter, by addressing it to a residence even though it is being held? I think I am. Will I continue to do it anyway? Yes! Can I sleep at night knowing that? Like a baby!

Where is the line drawn between what is an acceptable level of ethical behavior and what is unacceptable? I can only answer that for me – no one else. I may judge others based on their decisions and that is my prerogative. I may be judged based on the decisions I make and I am cool with that. If, because I’m not 100% in compliance with my waiver, a horrible person to some people and not worthy of their business, that’s fine…can’t make everyone happy.

Robyn’s questions regarding how others ship were direct, and considering the heat he has taken from others, warranted, IMO. Instead of getting direct answers, they were dodged as if the person was running for office. Steph and Kevin – you both have shipped to a residence under your waiver. You know it, and you will probably, knowingly, do it again. It’s ok. It doesn’t make you the devil, and certainly doesn’t make you a bad person. It may make you hypocrites for chastising others for violating the policies of UPS, but that is ok too. We have all been hypocritical at times.

 

[brd7666]

I've been away from this thread because I really want to finish reading the thread on The Wise family. I really dont care if FedEx certified people ship to residential addresses or if SYR hasnt made their waiver public as long as the customers are getting what they paid for (a healthy reptile). But I hate to see people trying to sound like they're perfect on everything they do. I mean sht, I take a piss outside the bar when there's a line in the bathroom, I text on my phone on a red light, I jaywalk, heck... I'm no saint and for that I dont point my fingers at anyone unless they are BAD GUYS and are only in it to screw people over.

I read the last page of this thread to make a quick attempt of getting an update and IMO this is a hell of a post, I couldn't say it any better:

I continue to be amazed at how people keep twisting and scewing the topic so it can be rationalized in their mind.

It's one thing for an individual to break the rules or terms of service.

It's a whole new ball game if a company or orginazation is misleading, misrepresenting, or flat out lying about about what they can do. If a middle man is saying that they can ship something because they have a waiver, but they don't. That is wrong, they are making a profit off of others by lying to them, and palcing the shipment in harms way. So if a company is misleading, or flat out lying then they are a bad guy, plain and simple.

Based on some of the logic here in this thread, some people feel it's o.k. for a company to scam them so they can save a dollar, while the company in question profits from your shipment.

 

[Diego Velarde]

I continue to be amazed at how people keep twisting and scewing the topic so it can be rationalized in their mind.

It's one thing for an individual to break the rules or terms of service.

It's a whole new ball game if a company or orginazation is misleading, misrepresenting, or flat out lying about about what they can do. If a middle man is saying that they can ship something because they have a waiver, but they don't. That is wrong, they are making a profit off of others by lying to them, and palcing the shipment in harms way. So if a company is misleading, or flat out lying then they are a bad guy, plain and simple.

Based on some of the logic here in this thread, some people feel it's o.k. for a company to scam them so they can save a dollar, while the company in question profits from your shipment.

You keep going at it. To the bolded: It has NOT been PROVEN they did not have one. Quit making accusations without any evidence.

 

[garweft]

What is they say.... Opinions are like.... well anyway, here's mine...

It really does seem to me that SYR had a waiver. How else could they get known snake shipments back on the delivery path that have been halted? And if they were lying why tell people to stop? They would just let it be and continue to play the numbers game. Seems to me the exemption was there, but got pulled by UPS for whatever reason.

As for marking the box I see it this way. Make an empty box with the words "live snake" and walk around trying to get random people to hold it for you while you tie your shoe.... I bet it get's dropped and thrown more times than not. This might be news to you but... PEOPLE HATE SNAKES... I'm not talking a little afraid or freaked, I mean they HATE them. As in shake your box and hope it dies, as in the only good snake is a dead snake. I personally don't trust anyone to do the right thing at their job in relation to my snakes. I wish it wasn't like this, but it is.

Also I've never seen anyone charged with a Lacey act violation for shipping a legally acquired cornsnake in an unmarked box. An indigo, yeah. A BP, no.

 

[brd7666]

You keep going at it. To the bolded: It has NOT been PROVEN they did not have one. Quit making accusations without any evidence.

I'm not the only one who has kept going at it. I will admit, I have even been disrespectful, I am not affraid to admit it. But on the other hand Robyn has been disrespectful as well. We all see things from our own point of view. As for it not being proven, show me where they did prove to at least their customers that they did have the waiver.

When Robyn came here to Fauna and asked Rich to help him, he wouldn't even fax a copy to Rich. Instead he read it over the phone to Rich and then Rich posted here that he was read something over the phone. Anyone can read or make up as they go over the phone.

People now a days are so quick to jump at cheap, that they don't even ask the right questions, or verify if a sevice is legitimite.

If someone has a waiver for something, regardless of what it is, then why should it be such a big deal to show the proof? He never showed it, even when people asked to see it. What harm is there in showing someone something if it is legitimite? I would think someone would be proud to show it off.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Also I've never seen anyone charged with a Lacey act violation for shipping a legally acquired cornsnake in an unmarked box. An indigo, yeah. A BP, no.

I've never seen anyone fined several thousand dollars for having frogs by DNR either...Until the other weekend at Repticon. Because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you're ok violating federal law, knock yourself out.




I find it kind of funny how it keeps getting brought up about how people will have a heart attack if they see a label marked "snakes." Read the law it doesn't say anything about labeling the outside of the package as "snakes" and no one has ever said you had to (in this thread, anyway). The only ones that are saying anything about labeling the outside of a package "snakes" is SYR and friends!

So, let's go over this again!

1. You must label the outside of the package conspicuously "Fish" or "Wildlife" (at a minimum)
2. A detailed packing list with quantity and species must be included with the shipment

 

[Southern Wolf]

True, but you only admit it after you have been proven wrong; until then you wield your opinions like a sledge hammer and haven't shown yourself open to seeing the possible "other side of the coin". Don't take that wrong Kevin or as a personal attack against you. You are who you are and I am not attempting to judge you; I'm just not looking to get into a head butting competition with you as I believe your head is likely harder than mine.

Sam... it most likely is harder than yours LOL

Its all good... at times I can be a pit bull.