Fly-by-night breeders, Adjusting my definition.

I use to think the term applied to people that would show up for a couple of months then off the radar they went.

I’m really amazed with how many people I did business with just a few years ago that are now out of the hobby. I’m even more amazed and disappointed that a good number of them have burnt others on their way out. It is amazing that many people can appear to be great people to do business with when the economy is fairing well across the board. When there is more funds floating around it’s easier for some to be good guys. When times are a little tough, character, or lack of it, is easier to identify.

This is just my opinion. I think there were a lot more breeders/businesses active on all the forums I visited across the net a few years ago. I’m not talking about regular members that are interested in reptiles and sell a few, I think that number is up most places, but those that tried to make it as their main business in a very short time seems to be down considerably. Those that I dealt with a few years ago that are still around are the people that had good names for years beforehand. Those that burnt people on the way out were around less than a few years.
It’s easy to maintain a name short-term and when people have the extra funds to toss around. The defining moments come when it’s not so easy.

...those that tried to make it as their main business in a very short time seems to be down considerably. Those that I dealt with a few years ago that are still around are the people that had good names for years beforehand. Those that burnt people on the way out were around less than a few years. It’s easy to maintain a name short-term and when people have the extra funds to toss around.

True. One aspect of this seems to be the folks that get into the hobby expecting to make a bundle of money selling reptiles right off the bat, and are sorely disappointed when the reality hits them between the eyes that it takes years being 'in the red' to earn a good reputation for quality animals, customer service, and business ethics.

If it's strictly about the money, they either give up too soon or seem to feel the reptile community owes them something they don't earn.

Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos

True. One aspect of this seems to be the folks that get into the hobby expecting to make a bundle of money selling reptiles right off the bat, and are sorely disappointed when the reality hits them between the eyes that it takes years being 'in the red' to earn a good reputation for quality animals, customer service, and business ethics.

If it's strictly about the money, they either give up too soon or seem to feel the reptile community owes them something they don't earn.

In every aspect of life there seems to be more people that feel that someone owes them something. Well, maybe it isn't more.. just more years behind me that I see things that I haven't noticed before.
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Question to all- Do more people believe they're owed something in this world without earning it or has it always been such a pervasive character flaw in the population?

Do people even think it is a character flaw? Sometimes, I think that so many have a belief in entitlement to what they desire that the way I view character of a person has little place anymore.

Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos

True. One aspect of this seems to be the folks that get into the hobby expecting to make a bundle of money selling reptiles right off the bat, and are sorely disappointed when the reality hits them between the eyes that it takes years being 'in the red' to earn a good reputation for quality animals, customer service, and business ethics.

If it's strictly about the money, they either give up too soon or seem to feel the reptile community owes them something they don't earn.

Bundle of money? What is that? It's only been in the last year that I am making enough money from this hobby to pay for itself week in and week out. And I am ECSTATIC about that!! I have not had to dip into my savings in almost, not quite, but almost a year!! That of course is after several years of watching my savings dwindle.

Maybe, just maybe, over the next couple of years I will make enough money to actually replace all the money I have spent over the years building and maintaining my collection. And that does not even take into account my actual time spent on everything.

Lets do the math.... anyone here good at word problems? Ok, Johnny has spent several years playing with the reptiles he loves dearly. Over those years Johnny has spent many many many thousands of dollars on animals, enclosures, supplies, shipping, web sites, food, vets, etc. Johnny has invested countless hours maintaining the animals he loves, maintaining the food his animals love to eat, answering countless emails, shipping, going to shows, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention all the trial and error. Some of which has turned out great, some of which didnt and cost him even more money.

So.... if I am doing my math right Johnny is making negative $7 a day. Is that correct?

Originally Posted by shrap

Bundle of money? What is that?

LOL, haven't you heard. Everyone has a hummer or two in their driveway next to the lexus. If you don't, you have been cheated and are owed at least one. If you have to cheat someone else or sue someone for it, do it. It's your right to get what you want by any means. Seems to be the prevailing thoughts of many.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

In every aspect of life there seems to be more people that feel that someone owes them something. Well, maybe it isn't more.. just more years behind me that I see things that I haven't noticed before.
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Question to all- Do more people believe they're owed something in this world without earning it or has it always been such a pervasive character flaw in the population?

Do people even think it is a character flaw? Sometimes, I think that so many have a belief in entitlement to what they desire that the way I view character of a person has little place anymore.

Well I think everyone is entitled to THE PURSUIT of all they desire.

I think a lot of this "the world owes me" mentality partially comes from parenting (or lack there of). Parents are not instilling a work ethic into their kids anymore. They are getting everything they want as kids (TV in their room, MP3 players, XBOX, cars etc, etc) without ever having to actually do anything to get them.

I know when I was growing up that if it wasnt my birthday or xmas, and I wanted something special I either had to save my allowance for weeks, go through the neighborhood mowing lawns and/or many days of yard work, gutter cleaning, window/screen washing, car washing, going down to my dad's bar and cleaning the parking lot, etc, etc.

I dont see parents doing that anymore. They just give the stuff up. And I understand you want your kids to have things, but you are not doing them any favors by not making them earn things.

Originally Posted by shrap

Well I think everyone is entitled to THE PURSUIT of all they desire.

I think a lot of this "the world owes me" mentality partially comes from parenting (or lack there of). Parents are not instilling a work ethic into their kids anymore. They are getting everything they want as kids (TV in their room, MP3 players, XBOX, cars etc, etc) without ever having to actually do anything to get them.

I know when I was growing up that if it wasnt my birthday or xmas, and I wanted something special I either had to save my allowance for weeks, go through the neighborhood mowing lawns and/or many days of yard work, gutter cleaning, window/screen washing, car washing, going down to my dad's bar and cleaning the parking lot, etc, etc.

I dont see parents doing that anymore. They just give the stuff up. And I understand you want your kids to have things, but you are not doing them any favors by not making them earn things.

Agreed, I also had to do the same. I don't see kids pushing lawnmowers anymore.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I don't see kids pushing lawnmowers anymore.

LOL. Funny you say that but the "kids" next door to me have pushed lawnmowers successfully for years. The older one started it and did it through HS and college and even a bit after graduation. He drove a BMW from it. Now he is successful in commercial real estate. The younger son joined in when he got a bit older and they bought a commercial lawnmower and expanded. He just completed his fouth year of college (he appears to be on the five year plan) and he still does it. His parents help with tuition and he pays most all of his expenses including his Ford Explorer.

So there are some who have a work ethic, just not that many. In this case the role model is the father who is a "retired" Navy pilot that works every day in a second career and spends virtually every day off working around the house.

I don't think MOST people have any work ethic anymore. They want to go somewhere and be given a paycheck. They couldn't care less about the conpany they work for or the boss, or the customers. They do what's absolutely necesary in order to not get fired.
MOST kids today feel entitled to whatever they want, and they should get it right then, without waiting, without paying for it, without even asking nicely. They have absolutely no thought for anyone else.
I personally think that 80% of the issues with todays humans can be attributed to two causes. Laziness, and selfishness. No one wants to work for the reward, it should just be given to them. No one cares about someone else's feelings or needs.
How much is caused by the internet and the whole "keyboard commando" syndrome? It's so easy to type out a hurtful nasty insult to throw at a faceless entity on the net. That action makes it twice as easy later for that same person to say it in person to someone.
I've seen the same nasty insults thrown here, as other places on the web. I've seen the same "keyboard commando" attitude here too. It's NOT as pervasive as other places mind you, but this site isn't any more immune than any other place. We should all be more kind and less ready to attack.
People cheat others without a second thought now. It's not just the reptile industry. The reptile community has simply become more mainstream I think. Used to be just a few of us geeky weirdos who likes snakes. Now it's more acceptable, and the more people, the higher percentage of people who will show their butt.
Sorry it's so long, I guess it's just been one of "those weeks" to me.
Wolfy

For many, the lure of breeding and selling reptiles seems lucrative. Heck, just take a look at all the reptile classifieds around and note the price tag on many of those animals. I suppose a lot of folks would hear a "ka-ching' in their heads. Everyone wants to get rich the easy way... without having to earn it. Right?

So what happens when the inevitable wake-up call hits? They are in the hole for perhaps thousands of dollars, so they start taking short-cuts. examples: selling normals as hets, taking deposits or payments on animals they don't even have, stealing other's photos and passing them off as their own, buying a snake and claiming it was DOA or missing in order to get their money back, and let's not forget spreading vicious rumors around to quell the competition.

It's about greed and laziness. Something for nothing, and who cares who gets ripped-off or hurt along the way. I guarantee those of us who are in this hobby/business because we LOVE what we do will be around a little longer than the 'fly-by-nights'.