The problem with petsmart/petco

Originally Posted by sschind

Keep in mind that a lot of the reports you see about places like this are exaggerated, some of them to a great degree. People see something they don't like and want to tell someone else but they are afraid it won't seem bad enough so they embellish the story to make it seem as bad to everyone else as it seems to them.

I saw a claim unrelated to reptiles but it illustrates my point about a guy who said that every trip through his local McDonalds drive through takes 10-15 minutes and not just for him but for everyone. That is simply not possible. Maybe for one guy ordering for an army but not everyone. Not even 1 in 100 would be my guess.

My point is that without pictures, and even sometimes with them, you have to take such reports with a grain of salt. Some stores are worse than others and it does have to do with the commitment of management and employees. The corporate excuse only goes so far because if all stores are supposed to follow the corporate guidelines why are some worse than others. IMO these reports are not only exaggerated in a majority of the cases but they are very rare as well. In fact I think there are more mom and pop type stores that keep their animals in deplorable conditions than the big chain stores.

Yeah i can agree on the last part but i never hear anyone giving small shops shit. If anything, they encourage those kind of purchases because its what keeps the circulation flowing or whatever. But i always see people warning people not to go to petco or petsmarts. Its sorta frustrating

Originally Posted by ahoyyer

Yeah i can agree on the last part but i never hear anyone giving small shops . If anything, they encourage those kind of purchases because its what keeps the circulation flowing or whatever. But i always see people warning people not to go to petco or petsmarts. Its sorta frustrating

not true.
there is one thread (best to leave it dormant for now) that is a good example of a small shop that will likely meet it's end for violations in the future (if they slip up again).
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ghlight=payson
I'm sure it will explode with new posts if they are in trouble; or it will remain dormant if they did in fact change their ways.

I worked for 12 years (1996-2008) at a small shop in San Jose. They were one of the best in the Bay Area until the owners retired and closed up shop. In my time there I saw 4 or 5 shops in the area (that I can remember) get shut down for violations. Some, the former owners were not legally allowed to work with animals along with the fines, etc, that were imposed.
In the same amount of time, I heard of none of these extreme sorts of actions against the chains. Most of the complaints were from small shop owners who did not like the corporate competition, pet owners who were anti-corporate and, of course, the PETA type groups who hate all pet shops.

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

This is unfortunately true.
I have seen more mom and pops stores get shut down for these problems than reports of petsmart/petco abuses.
The big chains are likely trying to keep a good corporate image through clean stores etc...
Mom and pops can't always afford to hire enough people and the animals end up being neglected when this happens.

Then thats ridiculous. Because those big chain stores get way more trash than the small stores. Like really just reading through forums its not hard to find bad stuff about them. But then again i haven't been to a bad small reptile store

Originally Posted by ahoyyer

But then again i haven't been to a bad small reptile store

I seem to remember a few in the LA/Orange/Riverside/SanBernadino county areas that were pretty bad but that was back in the 90s. Maybe they got their acts together or got shut down.

Same in San Jose as mentioned, there were one or two good ones, the rest were not that great and generally didn't seem to last long (some lasted longer than they should have imo). It's been a long time since I've been to local shops down there though. There are two fairly close to where I live now, EBV and Reptile Room; generally EBV is good. Reptile Room, well, I will say they have shown quite a bit of improvement over the last few years.


I would speculate that you hear and read more about the chain stores since they are the most prevalent, people go there for cat/dog food already and for the 'average new reptile keeper' probably one of the first places where they see reptiles that can be bought as pets. My first lizards came from a PetCo, I had no idea reptile specific stores existed until I started doing more research and meeting other reptile keepers.

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I seem to remember a few in the LA/Orange/Riverside/SanBernadino county areas that were pretty bad but that was back in the 90s. Maybe they got their acts together or got shut down.

Same in San Jose as mentioned, there were one or two good ones, the rest were not that great and generally didn't seem to last long (some lasted longer than they should have imo). It's been a long time since I've been to local shops down there though. There are two fairly close to where I live now, EBV and Reptile Room; generally EBV is good. Reptile Room, well, I will say they have shown quite a bit of improvement over the last few years.

I only heard some bad stuff about prehistoric pets. But ive never been there. And ive been to probably over 15 smaller stores and none have been as bad as the big chains are described

As someone who worked at Petsmart for quite some time and took care of the animals there. IMHO a lot of it has to do with the manager/employee who takes care of them(Also the company as a whole). At the store I worked at, all of our animals were well cared for, and if any problems were scene they saw the vet as soon as we could get the animal in. Some employees just need a job and half do their work and don't really take care of the animals as they should. Also, a lot of the people that work with the animals aren't educated on them unless they go do research themselves or another knowledgeable employee helps them.

When I worked there they did not soak their torts at all, until I pointed out that they need to be soaked weekly. Some were a little light weight, and I also got them to change their diet to a proper one as well.. A lot of it falls on the company not educating the employees in the area they work..

Entirely too little pay for how much work they demand from PetCare Specialists, that's actually probably the biggest problem with PetSmart (cannot speak for PetCo, but I doubt it is very different).

I worked there for six months before I got burnt out. There were some issues with some animals having to be euthanized due to neglect from some of the employees, but most of my burn out was them taking advantage of a minimum wage employee who was willing to work and work well.

In 2010/11 (whenever it was) employers were still allowed to work a "part-time" employee 39.59 hours a week and still claim them as "part-time". That is what happened to me. I was basically working full-time hours but getting none of the benefits for it and only making a piddly little 7.75, or whatever it was.

I most often worked in the mornings opening the store, here is everything I had to do:

6am-9am (everything to be completed BEFORE the doors open) Mon-Fri.
-Come in and clean out the bedding/cages for either the Small Animals, Reptiles, Birds, Quiet Room/New Arrival Room or receive massive orders for the Fish Tanks depending on the day (for the record, being able to clean out all of the birds within two and a half hours is doing it fast). It should also be noted receiving fish is the only thing a manager EVER helped me do in the morning at that store.
-Check on all animals in the Quiet Room where sick or injured animals are housed. Write down observations, give medication.
-If someone is ready to be returned to the floor, do so.
-Clean and sanitize all hides, toys, water bottles and food dishes.
-Feed and water them.
-Check on all animals in the New Arrival room, move animals ready to be put on display out to the main floor.
-Clean and sanitize all hides, toys, water bottles and food dishes.
-Feed and water them.
-Check on small animals, clean and sanitize all hides, toys, water bottles and food bowls.
-Check on birds.
-Spend time working with any conures (manual states at least 20 minutes a day) available to keep them sociable since they are often quite young (generally I'd just put them on my shoulder while I move around and do what I need to do with the other birds).
-Clean and sanitize all toys, water bowls and food bowls.
-Check on reptiles.
-Clean and sanitize all food bowls and water bowls, spot clean waste (unless Thursday when full cleaning is done).
-Take all dirty dishes and put them in a giant sink to sanitize in a solution. Pull out replacement dishes and fill them with food according to species.
-Cut up carrots to give to small animals.
-Cut up grapes, sweet potatoes, carrots and apples into diced pieces for birds.
-Feed everyone including reptiles who get pinky/hopper mice (depending on the day), crickets, meal worms and feeder fish. Fish are also fed flakes and/or blood worms.
-Clean (vacuum and replace decorations) a specific set of fish tanks on a given day.
-Organize the plant tank and make sure the snails are fed as well.
-Drain the sanitizer from the sink and set all the dishes out to dry.
-Open the store.

From 9am - 12pm
-I was alone until a swing shift came in to handle the entirety of PetCare. That meant I was getting crickets, feeder fish, fish, small animals, birds, etc. etc. while also advising people on products and husbandry.

12pm was generally lunch. 3pm I went home.

All of that for 7.75 an hour. I probably had to do less garbage managing a pizza joint for more pay.

In the end, they just took advantage of me considering I was hired on "just for 12-15 hours a week". After my first week there, for the six months I stayed, there was not a single week my hours went under 36 hours except for when I was in the hospital.

The work was exhausting and there was just little yield for it. Couple that working with other people who have no knowledge on the animals they are caring for and who regard a hamster's life as "just a hamster" and it's not somewhere worth working for.

I have a mix of breeder and pet store purchased geckos. I have had mixed results myself with the local chain stores; I have 2 PetSmarts and 1 PetCo near me. I also have a smaller, reptile specific store in the same area I sometimes go to, more of a mom and pop type shop. Of the stores, the small shop looks the worst consistently (dirty tanks and improper set ups for various reptiles.) Some 'big name' breeders that are well known have had less than stellar practices that have recently come to light. So big chain stores aren't necessarily an indicator of bad animal husbandry practices alone.

I did find a crested gecko at one of the PetSmarts that I would have paid 2 to 3 times more for if I purchased from a breeder because it is a popular flashy morph. This gecko has been thriving and growing steadily: I'm happy with this purchase (though I am keeping it in quarantine for the next few months, it will see the vet and be tested for parasites.)

On the other hand, I have a reptile from a breeder that I had to take to the vet (I was on the fence but made the decision to go after learning that people who had purchased from this breeder were having animals die after receiving them.) Luckily the reptile is doing very well though its been a frustrating couple of weeks having to deal with oral and topical meds every day.

I also have another crested gecko that was a pickup (really a rescue because it was very tiny and shouldn't have been shipped at its small size) from another local chain store that I know is riddled with parasites and has been loosing weight. I knew what I was getting into, however, because I had rescued another reptile from the same store that also had parasites and was missing toes due to being housed communally when the species has a reputation for eating it's fellow cage mates (luckily, it has made a full recovery now.) This particular store has a manager who is supposedly knowledgeable about reptiles and keeps some himself.

I think you have to deal with each store or breeder on a case by case basis, which is why I always try to read reviews on the Fauna BOI. And just to throw this in there, no matter where the reptile comes from, I say have a vet checkup done on all your reptiles (sooner than later: its better to have it be nothing than to wait until it's to late for the critter.)

Originally Posted by FullMetalOctopus

I have a mix of breeder and pet store purchased geckos. [/i])

I've had people tell me they won't buy from a pet store and they only buy from breeders only to have to tell them the "breeder" they bought from was a flipper who does not breed any of his animals. The animals may be CB but so were the animals from the pet store.

I've had people tell me they bought their green anoles or green tree frogs from a breeder at a local swap because they didn't want WC animals only to have to tell them their animals are really WC and not CB.

I've had people tell met they only buy from a certain place because all their animals are CBB. Even the green anoles and green tree frogs because the store only sells CBB stock and doesn't deal with WC.

My point, as fullmetaloctopus said, you have to treat each store, each breeder, each swap vendor etc. etc. as an individual. There are good and bad and in between at each and every level.

When I first started looking into getting some reptiles, I swore up and down that I wasn't going to buy from any pet stores, myself. My compromise has been that my pet store finds and 'rescues' are strictly pets will not be bred to my reptiles that come from reputable breeders with known lineage.

Interestingly, I have learned that some high end breeders also have whole sale animals that are bought by PetSmart in certain regions of the US. I found this out while trying to deduce where my flashy morph gecko came from, as I was surprised to see such a nice reptile in a local chain pet store. So, sometimes you can luck out but you have to be fairly patient and wait months sometimes before coming across an animal worth the effort.

Its also very helpful to get to know other local (in addition to the online community) hobbyists and breeders: it's how I got the health heads up about one of my geckos bought from a big name breeder. I heard about the problems long before they were posted online, which saved my critter and me a lot of potential problems down the road.