About the BOI and it's future here...

Originally Posted by hhmoore

This isn't anything personal, and isn't intended as a shot at you....but, when one puts an expense off, even if it is deemed important, there will always be new important bills that get in the way. We ARE only talking about $25...I don't think there are too many people here that can look at their expenses since they became a member (or, in the past year, in the case of long timers) and honestly say they just couldn't have afforded the membership. Some people don't want to contribute - that's their choice, and I have no problem with them saying just that. But I do have a hard time accepting the statement that I would, but I just don't have the money from people that have spent several hundred to several thousand dollars on animals. It's just numbers, but they don't add up

Its all good Harald....

And for the most part you are 100% correct. There will always be new important bills and it is a numbers game.

Here are my numbers.... my goal is to have my animals support me or very close to it in 6 years. I already have a pretty decent number for my breeding stock (some breeding now.. some growing up) and I dumped a whole lotta money this year to increase that breeding stock. Same will most likely go for next year.... I will max out buying to just short of showing a loss at the end of the year. Its not just good enough to have the amount of hatchings I need in 6 years.. but I also have to be able to sell them. So right now I am dumping my cash on advertising (to get my name out there) and future breeders so I have the babies I need at that time.

Rich has decided he wanted to retire by Jan..... I have decided I want to retire in 6 years.... retire from a job I hate.... and breed reptiles full time which is something I love.

I guess that I am singing the I would, but I just don't have the money tune... but I also have to look at this from a business standpoint in reguards to reaching my ultimate goals. Supporting myself in 6 years doing something I love.

One another note... I have sent Rich a PM in reference to and Idea I had to make the "contributing member" a little more appealing to small time breeders like myself that are not only working a full time job... but also taking care of a nice sized collection and trying to do the business end of things as well.

You have heard the saying "time is money".... well in this case... this small change (if possible) would save us alot of time managing our classifieds here... and thus be well worth the money spent to achieve this.... so much so... that you can call it supporting the BOI or call it paying to effectivly (sp?)advertise....

Harald... Ive been here for a while and you know Im a straight shooter... Im not really trying to make excuses.... just stating why its not real high on the list at this time.

You know I made a huge deal earlier in the thread about about how making the BOI pay-to-play would be a really bad idea but I'm really starting to change my mind now after hearing all these people posting excuses for why they can't come up with the $25 to show Rich the BOI matters so perhaps pay-to-play would not be such a bad idea. I have a pretty decent sized collection and I have my goals of doing something with that collection also but ultimately if I were to skip a weeks worth of feeding for all those animals it really wouldn't put any of those animals nor my goals in any kind of jeopardy but it would surely cover the $25 for the year and show my support for the BOI. So I'm sorry but unless you're flat broke, in which case you have no business hanging out here instead of looking for a job, all those execuses are really just that. At least if the BOI goes to pay-to-play those who care enough about the site would still be able to use it and those leeching off would perhaps be forced to step up or they can take the chance and get scammed.

On a lighter note from reading the last few post it seem there are still people who are unaware of the situation with the BOI. It seems that people don't necessarily pay attention to the stickies. Would I get in trouble if I were to go to some of the active threads on the BOI and make a single small post making people aware and directing them here? It would technically be taking the thread off topic but it might help make more people aware and perhaps drive up contributions?

Heck, I can understand people being short on funds and having to put priorities on where and how they spend their money. That's really not all that hard to understand. Everything you spend money on is going to be based on the priority of how important it is to you and what you would have to do without if you do not put the money towards things with a lower priority. That's really easy to understand.

And I hope, in turn, that people recognize how I also have to put things into perspective and also prioritize how I spend my money and how that has to be considered with not only monthly expenses, but also the possibility of future expenses and that relative importance to the financial impact it could have on me.

That is really what this thread is all about, I believe. Everyone needs to consider their priorities. If the continued existence of the BOI is so far down on the totem pole for most people, then heck, I understand. It's right down there for me too at this time. I'm just looking for a reason to put it a few notches higher, I guess... Unless the reasons for me to keep it will outweigh the reasons to let it go, then how would anyone else treat this kind of decision if they were in my shoes?

I am a web developer and I either run, help run or provide different venues where people post about other people and/or topics, etc. Please explain to me why the BOI needs money to defend itself. In my mind, if this were true, there would not be a single website that could operate without legal representation.

That being said, what is posted on any venue on the web is fair game, as long as someone does not slander or libel someone, and in the case of the BOI, all people are doing is posting actual experiences about transactions. Also, anything posted that comes under fire is not given any merit unless proof of a bad experience can be provided.

I will note, I have not read all the posting on this thread, so I assume this argument has already been covered. If so, please point me to the explanation. If not, I would appreciate an answer.

Thanks,
Brandon

Rich... I honestly dont know what I would do in your shoes.

Just a question that just popped into my head... and I really dont want an answer... mainly just putting it out there so you can think about it should you choose to.

You said....

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Perhaps....

Or I could just take it to court, win it, then file a countersuit based on the lack of merit of that original lawsuit, and put the money awarded me for the damages inflicted by that lawsuit to very good use. I am extremely confident that I would win such a lawsuit, so perhaps this may be the best route for me to consider taking in such a case. Might cost me some money up front, but yeah, I'll get it back, with interest, in the end.

Do you have enough put back to fight the first lawsuit.... As you stated above... win it then file your counter suit... and use the money awarded to add into a legal fund (savings account). Everytime someone gets the bright idea of suing you... add your money awarded into that same legal fund. My guess is a couple times of this and you wouldnt have to worry about the funds to fight a suit.. cause you would have the awarded money from the frivolous (sp?) suits ready and waiting. You just need the funds for the original suit.

You stated that you put alot of work into the BOI and dont really want to see it go (if I remember correctly) but your worried about financial aspects that the BOI causes. Would this solve those financial aspects? Only you can answer that.

Its something to think about maybe

Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

I am a web developer and I either run, help run or provide different venues where people post about other people and/or topics, etc. Please explain to me why the BOI needs money to defend itself. In my mind, if this were true, there would not be a single website that could operate without legal representation.

That being said, what is posted on any venue on the web is fair game, as long as someone does not slander or libel someone, and in the case of the BOI, all people are doing is posting actual experiences about transactions. Also, anything posted that comes under fire is not given any merit unless proof of a bad experience can be provided.

I will note, I have not read all the posting on this thread, so I assume this argument has already been covered. If so, please point me to the explanation. If not, I would appreciate an answer.

Thanks,
Brandon

Brandon Piddington is my full name

Brandon,

I think it comes from... anyone can sue for anything. Doesnt matter if it has merit or not. You still have to pay to defend yourself. I think that is where Rich is coming from. He knows that according to the Law he will win... but he still has to pay to defend himself in court... and thats not cheap.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

Brandon,

I think it comes from... anyone can sue for anything. Doesnt matter if it has merit or not. You still have to pay to defend yourself. I think that is where Rich is coming from. He knows that according to the Law he will win... but he still has to pay to defend himself in court... and thats not cheap.

Well then, Rich needs to reach out and find a herper that is also a lawyer, one who will do pro-bono work; basically a person who knows the value of the BOI, and who will work to defend against these idiots. (but I am sure he has already thought about this).

Thoughts?

Brandon Piddington

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Hmm, you must have gone back and read those old threads concerning the time I actually did put a paid membership requirement for the BOI. Because that's exactly what happened. I think the argument was something to the effect that I owed it to everyone to keep the BOI free and available.

Disturbingly enough, no, I didn't. It's just really easy to predict what people will do....

Originally Posted by WebSlave

That being said, I guess that if I do decide to just close down the BOI, people will be wanting to track me down and hang me. After all, they will most certainly blame me for it's demise.

A Catch-22 at its best....

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Well, I've got a little over a month to think about this. I just recently sold off all the rest of my animals, so by January 1, I will officially be in retirement.

Wooo!

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Seriously guys, I really don't want to shut down the BOI, but you can't imagine the grief, stress, and headaches it has given me over the years. I have a special folder in my mail program just for "legal threats against FaunaClassifieds". If I wasn't just naturally hard headed and combative by nature, I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago. When someone threatens me, I just dig my heals in all the harder as NO one is forcibly going to take a damn thing from me. Tell me to delete some thread, OR ELSE, and I'll pick the OR ELSE, every time. The law is on MY side, bud.

Nope, I can't imagine the stress this must cause you, which is why I completely understand if you decide to give it the boot. One shouldn't have to put up with that kind of crap anyway, let alone during retirement!

Originally Posted by WebSlave

But what will finally kill the BOI is if I become convinced that the majority of the people in this business really don't give a crap either way about it. That I am simply wasting my time putting up with all the crap I do fighting for everyone's privilege to tell the truth here about someone who raked them over the coals. That I am willing to put up with all those threats of a lawsuit that want to get that evidence swept into oblivion.

And it's decoupling those who don't care with those who just don't want to pay is the hard part...if one even considers those mutually exclusive....

Originally Posted by WebSlave

So yeah, if that really is the case, then I wouldn't really be quitting, I would just be agreeing with them.... After all, what do I really need the BOI for any longer? The BOI is really for all of YOU now. You just need to show me my efforts haven't been all for nothing in the end.

Exactly!

[quote=BrandonsBalls;819471]Well then, Rich needs to reach out and find a herper that is also a lawyer, one who will do pro-bono work; basically a person who knows the value of the BOI, and who will work to defend against these idiots. (but I am sure he has already thought about this).[quote]

When you find this person, let all of us know....