Bad Guy Matt Oakley

I ordered rodents from Matt Oakley of maryland and was extremely disapointed. The only reason I ordered from him was because I missed Rodent Pros shipping deadline and it was going to be two weeks to get my order from them. He was only a little more for what I thought was the same order so I went with him. When the shipment came I knew something was wron immediatley, it was in one box. My order was 140 XL rats, 100XL mice and 150 weaned mice. At Rodent Pro this order would have been probably 5 boxes. I opened the banana box(yup that is what he shipped in) and could not believe how tiny the rats were, some were not even in a bag just thrown in the box. I weighed the bags of rats and some of the bags did not even average 150 grams per rat. Some of the rats were under 130 grams. I called him and he said he ad says they are between 150 and 224 grams. I admit I did not read that before I ordered or I never would have ordered from him in the first place, most other suppliers would not think of sending a rat under 250 grams for an XL. Rodent Pro for example sells their rats this size as mediums and I think everyone would agree that is what these are. I just weighed the bag of XL mice and his ad states his large mice are 30-39 grams. the bag of 100 weighed 2479(minus bag weight of 30 grams brings you to 2449 or under 25 grams average) When I called him I really thought he had made a mistake and thought he may want to fix it, he basically said too bad. In short if you want to pay way too much for medium rats this is your guy. If you want true XL rats at a fair price stay away from him. I do realize part of the fault is on me for not reading his ad well enough and assuming XL was XL not medium but they did not even measure up to his pathetic idea of an XL. and unless XL means smaller then large in MD his mice did not either. Clearly misrepresented his product and I feel outright ripped off.
Craig Kade

Not defending anyone here, but you'll find all sorts of differences between one rodent suppliers Extra large rats, and another. I'm talking weight, which is what they go by, not what size "WE" think an extra large is. American Rodent Supply in IN and Big Cheese out of TX are two other major suppliers, and their weights and sizes will differ, not just from each other, but from Rodent Pro as well. It really is on us to make sure we know what we are purchasing.


Do you have a link to where you found out about him? Any emails to support what you are saying in the way of his attitude towards his customers?

Providing those things would help to substantiate your claims.

Rick

I know they can vary and that was my bad but they were even smaller then his idea of XL. I found him on kingsnake and the only emails I have are me placing the order.

not choosing sides because i dont know the 2 of you at all.

but like rich said

different rodent suppliers have different sizes an different prices.

to him (matt) a xl rat may be 130 gram
to rodent pro its 250 gram


i think you didnt read through his ad or email correctly or just had a misunderstanding wich is a bad mojo on your part.

i dont belive matt is a bad guy you are just not satisfied with your order.

maybe next time you will remember to read


best way to look at it is your snakes wont starve now.

I will say it again, his ad says they are between 150 and 224 grams, they are not. His boxing sucked, has anyone else ever received loose rats in a box? no bag? His sizes were smaller then his ad stated period. I know that he can sell pinkie rats as extra large if he states it in his ad(not to give him any ideas) You can defend selling 120 gram rats as XL if you want, we all know that is crooked but not technically illegal if he states the sizes in the ad, the ad said 150+ and they were not.

here is the ad:



Hello,
I pretty much have anything you need feeder wise for your herps. If you need something that is not listed just let me know and i'll see what I can do. YOU CAN CONTACT ME ANYTIME AND SEE WHAT I HAVE IN STOCK. MINIMUM ORDER OF $50.


Mice
Pinkies~~~~~~$.35~~~~~1-2g~~~~~50 for $17.50
Fuzzies~~~~~~$.40~~~~~3-7g~~~~~50 for $20
Hoppers~~~~~~$.45~~~~~8-12g~~~~50 for $22.50
Small~~~~~~~~$.50~~~~13-19g~~~~50 for $25
Medium~~~~~~~$.55~~~~20-29g~~~~50 for $27.50
Large~~~~~~~~$.60~~~~30-39g~~~~25 for $15
Jumbos~~~~~~~$.65~~~~40-49g~~~~25 for $16.25
Colossal~~~~~$.70~~~~50g-59g~~~25 for $17.50
X colossal~~~$.75~~~~60g+~~~~10 for $7.50 These are HUGE!



Rats
Pinks~~~~~~~$.65~~~~~~10g~~~~~25 for 16.25
Weaned~~~~~~$.85~~~~30-44g~~~~25 for $21.25
Small~~~~~~$1.00~~~~45-69g~~~~25 for $25.00
Medium~~~~~$1.25~~~~70-99g~~~~25 for $31.25
Large~~~~~~$1.50~~~100-149g~~~25 for $37.50
X Large~~~~$1.75~~~150-224g~~~~20 for $35
XX Large~~~$2.00~~~225-299g~~~~20 for $40
XXX Large~~$2.25~~~300-374g~~~15 for $33.75
Jumbo~~~~~~$2.50~~~375-449g~~~15 for $37.50
Colossal~~~$2.75~~~450-549g~~~10 for $27.50
X Colossal~$3.00~~~~~550g+~~~~~5 for $15.00


Hamsters
Large~~~~$.75~~~~~30-99g~~~~~25 for $18.75
Jumbo~~~~$1.00~~~~100-200g~~~~25 for $25.00


Gerbils
Small~~~~$.50~~~~~>50g~~~~~~25 for $12.50
Medium~~~$.75~~~~~+/-75g~~~~25 for $18.75
Large~~~~$1.00~~~~+/-100g~~~~25 for $25


Rabbits~~~~~~~3-4lbs~~~~~~~$6


Guinea Pigs
Ex small~~~~~100g-199g~~~~~~~$1
Small~~~~~~~~200g-400g~~~~~~~$2
Medium~~~~~~~400g-599g~~~~~~~$3
Large~~~~~~~~600g-849g~~~~~~~$4
Jumbo~~~~~~~~850g-1249g~~~~~~$5
Colossal~~~~~~~1250g+~~~~~~~$5.50

Have you sent him a link to let him know of this bad guy thread? Maybe if he came here to tell his side, a resolution of some kind can come about.

And just for the record, an extra 2 weeks without a meal is hardly gonna hurt any snakes that I know of. They are pretty efficiently designed. Maybe in the future it would be better to just wait and go with a major supplier. Just a thought.

I think the packing thing, is of something to be concerned about, but did you get any photos of the packing job? *i know i would have, had i received a shipment like that!*

Anyway, here is the ad, in screenshots, so that it cant be removed or edited.

Actually, My mistake, now that i look... * i was just reading the heading text, and didnt really look into the prices* This is a Trade ad. It looks like things are all priced slightly higher. I suppose its OK for gram weights.... and his sizes...

craig kade said:

we all know that is crooked but not technically illegal if he states the sizes in the ad, the ad said 150+ and they were not.

Click to expand...

Actually, that might be construed as mail fraud if the story really happened as described from this side of the story. There are consumer protection laws you can look into if the rodents received really were smaller than the advertised sizes of those purchases. I don't mean the name of the size class - I mean the mass of the rodents as compared to his listed size (assuming he doesn't have a disclaimer saying sizes are approximate and may not be accurate....or something like that).

Did you say how you paid? Was it a CC or paypal? If so, file a complaint if he really didn't provide the rodents - by mass - as advertised.

WOW that sucks. I was planning on using him too. I guess I have to reconsider that idea now.

Not surprised at all here. I talked with this guy a few months ago about finding a local supplier since I'm in Maryland. I did tell him his prices were much higher than rodent pro which he boasted about how his rodents were much larger by weight for each category compared to Rodent Pros. Needless to say he didn't convince me to switch and I stuck with Rodent Pro. I'm sure Rodent Pro would have done right by you if you contacted them about grossly undersized rodents. He also doesn't ship them out in Bananna boxes! LOL!

I don't believe that Matt produces any of the rodents he sells. I have seen him at the Havre De Grace show towing around multiple coolers. There is no way he can control the sizes/quantities of rodents he doesn't produce.

Boy, That sucks Craig!
I know this time of yr. feeding at a specific time, and a specific sized rodent can be crucial in breeding success.
It seems like you have good cause with the misrepresented sizes of the large mice to file a complaint with paypal or your credit card company.
Sounds like it's time for a "road trip" to Rodent Pro again.
Good Luck!

Yup, road trip for sure, I really wish rodent pro could bring their shipping prices down. I paid with Paypal, which he also charges an extra 3% which is against their TOS. I did not take pictures of his rediculous pack job, he does not deny it. He says the weaned mice were larger then the ad states, I did not weigh those and most have been fed off but they did not look any larger then any other weaned mice, he also did not deny the mice were smaller then they were suppose to be just said they were the largest he had at that time. As far as not being able to control what you sell, I know I can even if I buy from somebody else, if he bought those as XL large I would love to know where from. He may have bought them as mediums from rodent pro. Here is a copy of his email admitting the mice were small, I called him about the rats so I have no email. I will send him a link here.
All of the 150 "weaned" mice I sent you were larger than my ad states. I sent you the largest mice I had at the time. Shipping also costed me about $20 more than what I charged you. From our conversation, i'm guessing that you didn't read my ad before sending me your order.


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Kade <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: Rodent order


the extra large mice were also small, the bag weighed 2479 grams your ad states large mice are suppose to be 30-39 grams. If you are goingf to rip people off you may want to stop sending through the mail, it is called mail fraud and although they probably won't investigate one complaint, after they get a couple they may.
----- Original Message -----

My response

First off, thanks Craig for being honorable enough to send me the link to this page ( I didn't think you would). As I explained to you on the phone for any size rodents I take the minimum weight and the maximum weight of the size and multiply it by how many are in the bag. As long as the bag is within those limits, that's what I send. I wasn't going to weigh each of the 390 rodents I sent you. So yes, i'm sure some were under the minimum weight and some were over the max weight. I have to admit, I didn't calculate in the 30 grams that the bag weighed. Also, one thing that i'm sure not many people would take into consideration is I weighed these rats when they were totally frozen. You decided to not use dry ice so i'm sure they did thaw some in the 2 days they took to get to you (Craig also decided to use 2nd day shipping since it was cheaper). Also, like I told Craig he had nothing to say about the 150 "weaned" mice he asked for were way larger than and and most people would consider them smalls. I also, charged Craig $20 less for shipping than I charged him (this I also told him). And for my "to bad" attitude, I honestly feel like I didn't cheat you at all. If I did then I would have given you a partial refund, but since I didn't even cheap you, why should I take the loss? I'm sure anyone in my shoes would feel the same way. I also noticed that in Craigs later responses he stated that the rats he received were even smaller than he originally stated. I also see that he made sure he left off all of my good feedback from multiply satisfied customers located of the bottom of my ad (I copied and pasted them at the end of my response). Wow, I also now see the reason why he did send me the link to this post (thanks crotalusadamanteus for asking him to do so). I have not invested the last 5 years of my life (I started really getting into breeding etc when I was 16, and am now 22) into this business to rip people off, I plan to be around for a looong while and know having unsatisfied customers isn't the way to do it. Yes, I did put 10 of the rats in the box not in a bag, this was to maximize the space. They wouldn't lay flat in the box so I stuck them in the corner of it. The box was insulated. Craig is the first person to complain about this.

And from looking at other people's responses I wasn't the only one that realized the you didn't read my ad before sending me your order. To me when you sent the payment for the animals you agreed to the terms of my ad. I do have good customer service and am always answering genetics questions and everything else EVERYDAY and half of these people don't even buy anything from me! I do care about all of my customers being please with what they recieve but point blank YOU DIDN'T READ MY AD BEFORE YOU ORDERED. I sell my rodents by WEIGHT not by what size people an jumbo in some people's eyes can be a medium in another or vice versa. The reason I have so many sizes is so that people can get as close of a size rodent as they're looking for. I hate seeing other breeders that have 150g+ range of the same size animal because the customer has no idea what they're getting.

To Snakepliscan: Yes, my prices are higher than rodentpros, Duh! I'm not a big company that breeds rodents all day. The reason why my prices usually are compatible with them is because I charge way less for shipping than they do. Also, why does it matter what kind of box I use to ship rodents in? Cardboard is cardboard!


Here are some other post about me in the BOI as a "GOOD GUY!"

We've bought two snakes from Matt Oakley in the past year, and after two flawless transactions I decided it was time to post a thumbs up. Both snakes arrived in good condition and exactly as represented. We got a beautiful 98' het albino, and an 03' 50% het albino. He worked with us, even though the snakes were hard to ship because of their size he got them safely here, and worked with us when our paypal account was suddenly shut down (due to suspicious activity from being scammed by someone else). Both snakes are still doing great and we've had no problems with them. Just goes to show you that there are some good "little guys" out there.

Matt Oakley is a great guy.

I purchased a pastel female BP from him the snake is doing great and I got a good deal. Thanks Matt

Lumpy

I bought a slew of frozen rats from Matt this week and was extremely pleased with his customer service, the quality of his packing/shipping job, the cleanliness of the rats, and the price I paid. I would not hesitate to buy from Matt again in the future.
All the best-
Jim Lineberger

I've bought from Matt too. He's a good guy.
~Sethsexotics

I get all my feeders from Matt, he is a good guy.
Vinnybocknyg

Is there any reason your slamming four of his good guy threads and not starting a single bad guy thread on him of your own?
__________________
Fettuccine, Linguine, Martini, Bikini. Slap Chop - making the world skinny one slap at a time.
~Critical bill

Matt, first off the feeders were great. The rats were much bigger than I anticipated.
Thanks. Anyways, I bought a big freezer to use for just feeders, so I'd like to stock up.
How much would it be for 6 rabbits, 10 g. pigs, 75 mice, 25 large rats, 10 of the biggest
rats, and 50 medium rats? Let me know. Thanks. Also, what snakes do you have available?
Do you ever do any trading? I'm thinking about getting out of balls.
-Mark-
[email protected]



Hi Matt, I got my order to day and I was very surprised at the quality of your product.
You have a fantastic product and I will definitely start buying my food from you. I
normally buy from someone else and have been doing so for several years and the product
does not compare to the quality of your feeders. Thank you so much
NINO
[email protected]



Matt-
Rats received...and completely frozen. I appreciate the quality of your packing job, and
the quality of the rats.
Thanks much! I'm sure we'll do business again.
Take care-
Jim
[email protected]



Feeder rodents came today. rodents looked fine and good packaging. I was missing one mouse
though. Only 24 instead of 25.
Thanks
kevin
[email protected]



Hello Matt,
I just wanted to let you know that I got the mice just fine! Thanks a million!! I may
need to get more pinkies and will still need some Rat Pups when you have them available?
I am glad you sent me different sizes of pinkies in this shipment, that helped a lot. Let
me know when you might have some pups available and if not, I will still need more pinkies
mice.
Thanks,
Phil
[email protected]

EastCoastReptiles171 said:

Also, one thing that i'm sure not many people would take into consideration is I weighed these rats when they were totally frozen.

Click to expand...

... so?

Freezing will change many of the liquids in the body into solids but it doesn't inherently add or subtract any mass from the amount of matter that's present. The volume may change, the mass won't.

They'd weigh the same frozen or freshly thawed.

Seamus Haley said:

... so?

Freezing will change many of the liquids in the body into solids but it doesn't inherently add or subtract any mass from the amount of matter that's present. The volume may change, the mass won't.

They'd weigh the same frozen or freshly thawed.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I've weighed my f/t feeders both before AND after thawing (to keep track of which rat goes to which snake) and the weight is always within a gram.

I copy and pasted my rodent pro order, I ordered weaned, I assume that is hopper on your ad. Unfortunately I had fed off most of the weaned but the 60 I had left weighed 633grams or 10.55 grams each your ad says Hoppers~~~~~~$.45~~~~~8-12g~~~~50 for $22.50 So I would say those are right on par, unless they lost weight in shipping too???The weanlings I could have cared less about 7 grams, 5 grams, 13 grams, I assume xl mice are larger then large and I assume XL rats are larger then other places mediums. The worst part about your shipping was def. the loose rats, those were the only thing completely thawed. On the plus side since I fed those"Xl rats" to some of my 08 ball pythons I guess now I can say my 08 balls eat xl frozen thawed rats(casey you know those little cinnys I bring to the show? those males from July? they ate em no problem) I admit to not reading your ad in full, no doubt it is misleading to call those XL but to not even meet your own very low standards is ridiculous. The mice your shipped you even admitted in email were smaller then advertised. It would be like me advertising an adult male ball python 120 grams then shipping a 100 gram ball. Even in your great testimonials there is a complaint about being shorted I figured all that needed to be posted was the sizes and prices. As far as not sending you a link here immediately that was my bad, I figured somebody found the kingsnake post and had it pulled within an hr. you would figure to look here ecspecially after I said I would let everyone know how I was treated, I should have sent you a link sooner though. Craig Kade

By this guys logic, he could include a few mice that could be BONES. Hardly worth even feeding, and a few decent ones, and since the whole bag equalled however much weight.... it would be legit. Pretty scummy if you ask me.