Bad Guy Matt Oakley

[John E Dove]

here is the ad:
Rats
Pinks~~~~~~~$.65~~~~~~10g~~~~~25 for 16.25
Weaned~~~~~~$.85~~~~30-44g~~~~25 for $21.25
Small~~~~~~$1.00~~~~45-69g~~~~25 for $25.00
Medium~~~~~$1.25~~~~70-99g~~~~25 for $31.25
Large~~~~~~$1.50~~~100-149g~~~25 for $37.50
X Large~~~~$1.75~~~150-224g~~~~20 for $35
XX Large~~~$2.00~~~225-299g~~~~20 for $40
XXX Large~~$2.25~~~300-374g~~~15 for $33.75
Jumbo~~~~~~$2.50~~~375-449g~~~15 for $37.50
Colossal~~~$2.75~~~450-549g~~~10 for $27.50
X Colossal~$3.00~~~~~550g+~~~~~5 for $15.00

Let me see if I have this straight.
What you ordered were 140 XL rats (150-224g) @ 20 for $35 = $245
What he sent were 140 Large (100-149g) which sell @ 25 for $37.50 = $210

I weighed the bags of rats and some of the bags did not even average 150 grams per rat. Some of the rats were under 130 grams.

The difference between what you ordered and what he sent being $35
Is this correct?

 

[Seamus Haley]

The difference between what you ordered and what he sent being $35
Is this correct?

To put a few different spins on it though...

Given an identical number of rats being sent, at the extreme edges of the weight ranges between those two, one size is more than twice the mass of the other. If he was doubling up the feeding to make sure every animal got an appropriately sized meal, but was only able to feed half as many snakes as a result...

Or, well... if they weren't what was ordered and advertised then they could be arguably 100% useless.

These guys may not reach a resolution that satisfies them both since they seem to still be fundamentally arguing about the substance of the complaint. I'm just of the opinion that an offering of the difference according to the supplier's price list isn't necessarily a fair or equitable resolution considering the nature of the product and the nature of the complaint.

 

[John E Dove]

No argument Mr. Haley, what I was attempting to do was find some starting point for compromise.
We do know that there was no doubling up on the feeding by Mr. Kade from the post of his friend Ms. Rabideau

In our case, yes Craig was able to feed the rats off because of the varying sizes of snakes that he has, however the large boas got an appetizer instead of a meal.

Most certainly this was not the optimal meal but Mr. Kade is experienced enough to understand that you do not want to over do it either.
And not to smoke screen the issue but we all know that Wild Boas etc do not always get the optimal meals we feed our snakes.
Yes Mr. Oakley shorted Mr. Kade on his order and has handled the controversy poorly but I see no reason there cannot be a compromise between the $35 shortage and the over double $75 figure suggested by Mr. Kade. At least there is no reason if both parties truly desire to reach a settlement.

 

[SerpentCreations]

And not to smoke screen the issue but we all know that Wild Boas etc do not always get the optimal meals we feed our snakes.
QUOTE]


These are not Wild Boas, these are captive bred snakes that were purchased for the intention of breeding. They are used to food being offered to them on a regular basis. Especially in this critical time of the breeding season, the females should be fed regualarly to maintain their body mass so that they are of healthy size to breed. I do agree with you that the snakes were not harmed by eating a lesser amount, but this will not fill them and keep their weight maintained. The biggest issue is that "Mr. Kade" did not receive what he had ordered and in short, had to purchase more rats which he would not have had to do if he had received what he had originally ordered! Yes he did end up using the rats to feed other animals because of the amount of snakes that he does own, instead of dealing with the hassle of sending the rats back, which would have been useless and completely thawed by the time that they reached Mr. Oakley. In return all he asked for was to resolve the situation, when Mr. Oakley told him he had no intention of correcting the situation was when Mr. Kade posted on here. It was not until everyones opinions were posted that Mr. Oakley finally tried to resolve the situation, and in my opinion, "What do you want?" as the email that Mr. Oakley sent, is not a very professional email, or attitude to have when trying to resolve an issue, it's like someone is making him try to resolve it. Can't we all just be grown ups and come to a professional conclusion? Is less than 13% really a fair and justifiable compensation for the trouble that Mr. Kade had to go through in receiving something completely different than what he ordered? I think I would have just taken that as an insult as well.

 

[JCCS]

This really has nothing to do with the thread, but I felt it had to be said. Ms. Rabideau, this point in the season has the most limited feeding schedule for females. In fact, many of my females go about five months all in all without feeding during the breeding season. The time directly after birthing through the summer and early fall is when they need weight put on them.

Just to keep this on topic, I really don't know anyone who has that many sizes above large. It just looks like a scheme to jack the prices up more often. Most of the people I get rats from have large that run around 200g and every thing larger is called jumbo.

Chris Canada-Smith

 

[SerpentCreations]

I really don't know anyone who has that many sizes above large. It just looks like a scheme to jack the prices up more often. Most of the people I get rats from have large that run around 200g and every thing larger is called jumbo.

Chris Canada-Smith

200g for a large rat, that is exactly the point, that is a decent size for a large rat. How can anyone call a 130g or less rat an XL rat, especially when the add states 150g - 225g. Ultimately there was a mistake made by Mr. Oakley in size of the rats, and there was a mistake made by Mr. Kade that he did not take pictures to prove the poor packing and sizes of the rats. Live and learn.

 

[SerpentCreations]

This really has nothing to do with the thread, but I felt it had to be said. Ms. Rabideau, this point in the season has the most limited feeding schedule for females. In fact, many of my females go about five months all in all without feeding during the breeding season. The time directly after birthing through the summer and early fall is when they need weight put on them.
Chris Canada-Smith

I am aware of this, however their weight still needs to be maintained during this time and I still feed my snakes as long as they are willing to eat, yes some of them refuse to eat, but I still try. Anyways, that was not the point that I was trying to make, I was just trying to make the point that what was ordered was not received. Pure black and white, simple as that.

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

He asked what I wanted I told him and he did not like it, I will not deny any of the emails, they look accurate, if anybody wants to send me their money, have me rip them off and offer a 13 percent refund and call it good, great. I will offer purple elephants at $1000, send you a white mouse and offer you $150 back. Plain and simple if you want what you order do not order from this guy, period. I think I have made my point if I am lying because I am to busy to reply to his email as quick as he would like then my bad. I took his pitiful offer as an insult and almost did not reply at all, then I decided I would send him an answer. If I ripped a customer off and they said that 18% refund or whatever was fair I would have had them the money instantly, not counter offer. Plain and simple he admits shorting me and admits he was wrong. What is $50, nothing, $25 more from him and we would not even be having this conversation. If I was trying to make a future of this I would, and do, try to make my customers happy. So if after reading this you still want to do business with him great, let me know how those "hets" prove out or what "healthy " means. If he ships you a dead animal he will probably offer you a 13% refund. Or if you order a boa and get a ball, 13% refund. He asked what I wanted I told him, he did not like it. I really wanted my order shipped right but figured $75 would get me rats from a real supplier.I guess I will just say, if you still do business with him and have a problem please email me so I can send you a big fat I told you so. I still need to go get rats from a supplier that ships what they advertise. Sorry if I did not answer this soon enough. I will be adding to this thread whenever I get a minute just to keep it fresh. Good day. Craig Kade

Just like I said before, you as well as other people have attempted to take this so far to the extreme it's definitely not parallel to this situation. Purple elephant, white mouse? I didn't send you hamsters instead of rats, from the fact that I weighed each bag and all of the rats were relatively the same size, I don't believe you could have gotten more than 5 undersized rats. But you want $75 back to cover 5 undersized rats?? That's ridiculous, and obviously taking advantage of the situation. That's not fair at all so I offered to give you $50 back which is more than fair for a couple of rats being undersized.

My point about it taking you so long get back to me if you wanted a resolution is that you e-mailed me back everyday prior to this incident and was on fauna religiously posting new threads but now you were suddenly "to busy to reply to my emails," which I think is bs. How is me asking you what you want back a pitiful insult not worth replying to? I didn't admit to shorting you, I admitted that there was room for error in my methods of weighing them by the bag and not each individual animal and stated that I will no longer do this for the future. If I wasn't concerned about your "customer happiness" I wouldn't have asked you what you wanted back in the first place and honestly I don't believe you'd be happy anyway.

Also, most hets that I sell are animals that I planned to or did breed myself but replaced it with the visible morph and no longer needed it. I've never shipped someone a dead animal, matter a fact I haven't had a DOA in 5 years and refunded the persons money for the animal. Nor have I sent anyone and animal of a different species, that's just stupid for you to say and insults my intelligence as I am a Vet Tech major and have worked at the National Aquarium, MD Zoo in Baltimore, and studied animals since I was 6 years old.

I would also encourage the next people to read this in the future who do get rodents from me to also e-mail Craig and tell him of your experience...

I really just want to have this over with and even though $75 back for a couple of undersized rats is crazy, that's what i'll send you back. So, you'll have a $75 refund by 12 noon today, feel free to post another thread if I don't send it...

Matt Oakley

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

Just to add, he says it best "screw me back" as in yes I did get screwed by Matt in the first place, well put you are right. Sucks when people voice how they got screwed and actually do not like it. I never said he never tried to resolve it, he did after I posted here, just did a piss poor job of it in my opinion.

And I used the phrase "screwed me back" because that's how you felt of the situation not because I did...

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

I have also changed some of my sizes so just incase someone else doesn't read my ad before sending me their order they wont be upset... I have so many sizes so I can be as accurate as possible.

Mice
Pinkies~~~~~~$.35~~~~~1-2g~~~~~50 for $17.50
Fuzzies~~~~~~$.40~~~~~3-7g~~~~~50 for $20
Hoppers~~~~~~$.45~~~~~8-12g~~~~50 for $22.50
Small~~~~~~~~$.50~~~~13-19g~~~~50 for $25
Medium~~~~~~~$.55~~~~20-29g~~~~50 for $27.50
Large~~~~~~~~$.60~~~~30-39g~~~~25 for $15
Jumbos~~~~~~~$.65~~~~40-49g~~~~25 for $16.25
Colossal~~~~~$.70~~~~50g-59g~~~25 for $17.50
X colossal~~~$.75~~~~60g+~~~~10 for $7.50 These are HUGE!



Rats
Pinks~~~~~~~$.65~~~~~~10g~~~~~25 for 16.25
Weaned~~~~~~$.85~~~~30-44g~~~~25 for $21.25
Small~~~~~~$1.00~~~~45-74g~~~~25 for $25.00
Medium~~~~~$1.25~~~~75-124g~~~~25 for $31.25
Large~~~~~~$1.50~~~125-199g~~~25 for $37.50
X Large~~~~$1.75~~~200-274g~~~~20 for $35
XX Large~~~$2.00~~~275-349g~~~~20 for $40
XXX Large~~$2.25~~~350-424g~~~15 for $33.75
Jumbo~~~~~~$2.50~~~425-499g~~~15 for $37.50
Colossal~~~$2.75~~~500-574g~~~10 for $27.50
X Colossal~$3.00~~~~~575g+~~~~~5 for $15.00


Hamsters
Large~~~~$.75~~~~~30-99g~~~~~25 for $18.75
Jumbo~~~~$1.00~~~~100-200g~~~~25 for $25.00


Gerbils
Small~~~~$.50~~~~~>50g~~~~~~25 for $12.50
Medium~~~$.75~~~~~+/-75g~~~~25 for $18.75
Large~~~~$1.00~~~~+/-100g~~~~25 for $25


Rabbits~~~~~~~3-4lbs~~~~~~~$6


Guinea Pigs
Ex small~~~~~100g-199g~~~~~~~$1
Small~~~~~~~~200g-400g~~~~~~~$2
Medium~~~~~~~400g-599g~~~~~~~$3
Large~~~~~~~~600g-849g~~~~~~~$4
Jumbo~~~~~~~~850g-1249g~~~~~~$5
Colossal~~~~~~~1250g+~~~~~~~$5.50


Chicks~~~~35g~~~~~$.35~~~~~25 for $8.75


1000 Crickets (sm, med, lg)~$25 (local pickup only)

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

You know what, he offered a medium of $50 dollars in the emails. If that ain't good enough, then what do you want? Seems to me like you are trying to get yours and then some.

He messed up your order, we all agree to that. But you acting like a kindergartner when he offers a resolution makes him look like the bigger person. If your sole purpose was to mark him a bad guy, and not try to resolve anything, why didn't you just say this in the beginning? We could have just read your story and moved on.

I just don't get some people.

Just to add, he says it best "screw me back" as in yes I did get screwed by Matt in the first place, well put you are right. Sucks when people voice how they got screwed and actually do not like it. I never said he never tried to resolve it, he did after I posted here, just did a piss poor job of it in my opinion.

 

[hhmoore]

Matt,
This is not the place for you to update your ads/pricelist - I realize that it was posted here before, but that was for the sake of showing how it was at the time of this transaction. Keep the advertising in the classifeds.

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

Matt,
This is not the place for you to update your ads/pricelist - I realize that it was posted here before, but that was for the sake of showing how it was at the time of this transaction. Keep the advertising in the classifeds.

I wasn't advertising, I posted it stating that I changed it just in case someone else didn't read it and sent an order they'ed get what they expected as I made my sizes bigger.

Also, my saying $50 refund in the e-mail wasn't a counter offer. I asked Craig what he wanted back and he said "$75 sound fair?" This being a question, I answered it and told him what I was going to offer but figured instead i'd just ask him what he wanted.

From: Craig Kade <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 7:20 am

$75 sound fair?



From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:12 PM

How do you come up with that figure? I figured a quater off of every rats as if every one of them was undersized. Since this was not the case I figured that would have been more than fair.



From: Craig Kade <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 2:53 pm

So are you saying $35 is fair?


I refunded Craig the $75 he asked for at 12:20pm today...
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:24 PM

I was going to say $50 which I think is more than fair.

 

[MikeCurtin]

You know what, he offered a medium of $50 dollars in the emails. If that ain't good enough, then what do you want? Seems to me like you are trying to get yours and then some.

He messed up your order, we all agree to that. But you acting like a kindergartner when he offers a resolution makes him look like the bigger person. If your sole purpose was to mark him a bad guy, and not try to resolve anything, why didn't you just say this in the beginning? We could have just read your story and moved on.

I just don't get some people.

At this point, I don't know that I'd feel comfortable dealing with either of these 2.

 

[Masonexotics]

But you want $75 back to cover 5 undersized rats?? That's ridiculous, and obviously taking advantage of the situation. That's not fair at all so I offered to give you $50 back which is more than fair for a couple of rats being undersized.

Yes, he may well be taking advantage, but the fact remains that if you CORRECTLY advertised, picked, packed and weighed your rats rather than taking an educated guess by trying to average you are leaivng yourself open to be taken advantage of. Satisfied customers = no complaints = no space for being 'taken advantage of'.

Advertise your rats clearly, weigh and pack them correctly and end of problem.

Playing the "it's not fair (mummy)" card won't do you any favours. business isn't about fair. It's about delivering what you promise to deliver. Annoy a customer and, yes, it might take more than you feel is "fair" to appease that customer. ( which I see you've now done, credit where it's due) It always remains your decision, make the customer happy or not. Leave them running around talking crap about you, or not. Make the deal right, or not. Advertise rats in a confusing, MILDLY dishonest way that runs against what the majority of the 'industry' does or not.


you may consider yourself 'taken advantage of' but really all thats happened is a customer has finally called you out on somehting (that for all you know) has annoyed many of your past and present customers. Lots of people will let mis-sized rats slide. Our supplier messed us about recently and we still let it go for three or four orders before saying anything. Most people would o what we did or simply change suppliers without saying a word (we're worth approx $400-$500 per month in frozen food orders, so worth having as a customer IMO). Who knows your random weighing/packing methoed might have already cost you thousands in repeat sales "these sizes are cack, I won't oder from here again". I keep (amongst other things) retics and boas and food not the size you ordered/expect can be a real pain, it has on occasion almost doubled our monthly food bill. If you had got my sizes wrong it would have cost me much more money to put right that simply the dollar value the discrepancy in rat sizes is "worth" as i'd have been feeidng certain animals 3,4,5 or 6 feeder items rather than one or two.

you need to consider that your "tiny" discrepancy as you see it could have had (in this situation or others) a bigger effect than you realise. in this case you've done the right thing, realised your reputation is worth more to you than 75 bucks and paid up. In other cases though I GUARENTEE someone at some point has simply thought "screw this, i'll order elsewhere". Where one person points out a fault, you can be sure others have noticed it too. If I were you i'd chalk this one upto experience and start weighing rats properly and bring sizes more in line with what your average herper would "expect" to get delivered when orderting a certain soze of feeder animal.