Bad Guy Stan Ruppel IS HORRIBLE!!!!!!

I have over 60 emails between the 2 of us. This tranaction will be 1 month old Tuesday. I am posting the latest email and the best I could do with the rest. I will answer any and all questions. I have nothing to hide. My name is Wayne Wasily. My email is [email protected]. The original transaction between Stan and I was $750 shipped for a breeder male axanthic and 2 100% het females weighing 700 grams each. I was turning around and "flipping" the 2 het females wholesale for $400. Basically I was getting the male for $350 when this entire thing was complete. When the animals showed up, it was a 400 gram male axanthic and 2 299g females. It has now been almost a month. I told Stan he could either refund me $300 to offset the loss I was taking because I couldn't sell the het females for $400 anymore. He could send me $450, which is what I was getting for the females plus shipping. Or he could send me $800 which is the original purchase price plus shipping and I would send ALL the animlas back. 3 weeks later, I still have no refund of any kind and now he wants me to send the animals to him first before he refunds my money. Mind you, I paid him within 3 hours of the agreement of our transaction by PayPal. 3 weeks and he is still arguing a futile point and holding my money hostage. Here are the emails and pics and fragment of converstaion:

Wayne-
"your $300"...? You have made this dollar amount up based on a deal you put together, and your friend saying he'd give you $50 for them. (which is ridiculous, because even 2009 NEW HATCHLING BABY hets are worth far more than that)! By your logic methodology, if he was paying you $1000 each and now offered you $1 each, you would be asking me for "your $1998"!!!!! RIGHT?!?! Wayne, are you SERIOUS?! (oh, and by the way, when you post this, make sure to put "X"s where I put the dollar amounts like last time so noone sees how silly your logic is)! These supposedly horrible "skinny snakes" (as you call them, yet are happy to keep them) are welcome back, as I stated many times, and once received I will be happy to pay you...but if you think you are going to get the animals and an even BETTER deal on an already 50% discount, youre wrong. And please be honest...Ive noticed you enjoy exaggerating, yet you talk about FACTS all the time...please hold yourself to the same standard. To be clear, Id like to move on as well....if you look at this from an angle other than anger, you will see what others see....that you STILL got a VERY good deal on these guys (again, the male by himself is worth well more than you paid!), and the females are HEALTHY, will EAT GREAT for you (or your buddy), and all is truly well....and be HONEST Wayne....youre selling (or have probably already sold) those girls for WELL MORE than $300, you are just trying to get your male axanthic for as close to FREE as possible, arent you?!?!? (look in the mirror and answer honestly!)

First off I would read this from the bottom Up. there are several other e-mails missing from this thread but I believe the pertinent information is represented properly here. I would just like to say the longer this situation went on, the more frustrated I became and I also became less polite. For anyone here who thinks I was wrong or agree's with Mr. Stan Ruppel, I don't care. If you think what the man did wasn't 100% wrong, then you aren't anyone I want to deal with either. In a nutshell, I contacted Stan Ruppel about his Super Ruppel. It was WAY out of my price range. He contacted me about a Breeder Axanthic male and 2 700 gram het Axanthic females (which he originally said were 800 grams but I can't find that e-mail). The rest of this post is a few of the e-mails we exchanged. Stan Ruppel took days at a time to answer my e-mails. He took a week to ship. He sent me a 400gram Axanthic male, and 2 300gram het axanthic females. I asked for one of 2 things in the last email posted below. It has been 21 days since I promptly paid Stan for his animals. I am composing this email today so once I am refunded I can post this on the proper channels. I gave Stan 2 options. He refunded $300 of my money and wants his animals back. That was not my terms and in no way shape or form did I agree to send him his animals back. I would be losing money to do so. If anyone disagrees with my actions, I understand you have an opinion. But after what Stan put me through I feel my actions are justified.

The 2 options are...... to be 100% clear, you are

1.REFUNDING me $300 to offset my loss due to your mistake

OR

2.You send me $800 and I send you back your stuff.

Why is it so hard to understand. I do not accept your terms.

Here's my PayPal address that you should already have in you recent transactions log. Go their and click REFUND MONEY.

I'll be waiting to see the money today and will ship (if applicable) tomorrow.

Wayne


In a message dated 11/27/09 14:23:42 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Wayne-
Like many tens of millions of Americans, I was gone from Wednesday night til this morning, so sorry for the delay in responding. As a general rule, I only get online 2 to 3 times per week to check my email, so I am not one of those guys "twiddling my thumbs" sitting by the computer waiting for emails to come in...as I said, I am extremely busy, and always do my best to respond as promptly as possible (which has not been fast enough for you, and I am sorry for that); this is one reason why I am downsizing my collection, to free up some time. So, I am getting back to you now at my earliest moment, and sincerely apologize for what you have perceived as a "lack of communication" on my part.

I am sorry to read of your dissatisfaction in the animals you received. You are obviously a "Nervous Nellie" type and I can appreciate that and I understand you have had issues in the past. Let me address the matter...

First off, you mention the fact that you had a deal- completely unrelated to the deal between the two of us- where you were selling the het females to a friend of yours. While I admire your entreprenuerial spirit, that transaction has nothing to do with me, is indeed none of my business, and in fact has no bearing in our deal. By your logic (of me owing you $300 lost from what you would have made if he was going to buy them), if you were selling them for $1,000 each, then I would owe you $1900, or if he only wanted to pay you $10 each, then I would owe you $380. I dont really follow that part...frankly, whether they were ~700 grams or ~300, they wouldnt breed in 2010, as you know, and their actual current weight wouldnt affect their "breedability" in 2011.

Regarding the animals and my "claims/misrepresenting" them, as you say....
I told you on 11/17 that "the male is a proven breeder, the females are about 700 grams or so. All eat great on live or FT rats or mice....genetics are 100% guaranteed." Then, "if you need exact weights, let me know." You did not request exact weights, which I would have been happy to provide. What I gave you was a COMPLETELY HONEST GUESS of what I THOUGHT they weighed, based on how big I felt they were in my memory. I was at the computer, and nowhere near the animals, so I could only go on memory as I was typing. Again, I would have been happy to have weighed them upon request, you would have just had to wait a couple of days. I am apparently not very good at such guesswork, if your scale is correct, and I apologize for that, but I did honestly NOT intentionally mislead you in any way, period. Anybody who knows me will tell you I am a very honest person who would never purposely mislead anybody. So I am sorry about accidentally mis-stating the weights of the girls. Again, however, I am not responsible for any side deals you are involved in, and the weight discrepancy will not have any effect on when they breed or their size. Regarding the male, HE IS INDEED A PROVEN BREEDER; I bred him this summer and produced a couple of clutches of Pastels het Axanthic and Spider het Axanthic. I have successfully bred males as low as 352 grams before, although yes, 800 or more grams is ideal, as you mentioned. As I said, I have been low on food for awhile; it had been probably 3-4 weeks since they fed, and all had defecated recently before they were shipped. As you will note, these animals have FANTASTIC feeding responses; like a retic, they are coming at you as you open their container, so when you ask "how do I know they arent problem feeders", I would just say, you will know immediately; as I say, they will eat anything....live, FT, rats, mice....that you put in front of them. If you have ample food supply, you co! uld get that male up to 600grams by New Years, easily. And yes, I do stand behind the genetics of the het females 100%, and will happily send you a written agreement saying so.

Wayne, as you know, the male Axanthic- just by himself- is worth $800-1250, which they have been posted at recently on Kingsnake.com. You knew you were getting a great price at $750 even if it was just the male. I was basically throwing in the females for free at that price; I was simply trying to move some inventory and free up some money. I appreciate your desire to offset the cost of the male by selling the girls, effectively lowering your cost on the male to only $350, a savings of about 70% off retail value. I admire this strategy, and have employed it myself in the past. Since your friend is no longer interested, what you have is something actually much better...a male that is proven that you can breed THIS season and produce lots of hets and double or triple-cross animals, and a couple of nice females with EXCELLENT feeding responses that will eat ANYTHING and that youll be able to breed in 2011 and produce probably 5-8 axanthics or so (based on punnet square probabilities). Please throw in a meal with them today or tomorrow, and you'll see what I mean regarding their feeding response (watch your fingers)! Please get back to me to let me know if you would like a formal written genetic guarantee on the females, which I will happily and promptly mail or email to you, your choice. I will be back online either later tonight or early Saturday morning, or as you may know my number is 414.525.1595.
Stan


I don't take very good picture. But here are the weights of the animals when they showed up today. You told me the females were 700 gram range. You neglected to mention they are 700g when you add them together!!! Actually, they are under 600 grams added together. I was reselling them. I can't do that now. Are you going to buy them back from me for the $400 I was getting for them?????? You said the Axanthic was breeder size and if I'm not mistaking, a proven breeder. He's 414grams!!!!! I don't know about you, but the smallest males i have ever gotten to breed are in the 600g range. This is why I don't do online business. No one sends you what they say they have. I have 09 babies bigger than these animals. How do I know they aren't problem eaters.... or even hets for that matter. Obviously my trust in you is wavering considering you didn't send me what I paid for or what you advertised. I had to send an extra pinstripe male to complete a deal earlier this year. An extra $250 dollar animal because I sent him 3.1 Enchis instead of 2.2. I know it was 2.2, but I sent it anyway because that's how you do business. So I'm curious, how do you intend to fix this? I hate to be stern, but I'm sick of getting the short end of every deal. Sorry for the crappy pics. I'm not a photographer. I hope we make this right.

Wayne


(ABOVE PICS WERE TAKEN IMMEDIATELY UPON REMOVAL FROM SHIPPING BOX!)

In a message dated 11/24/09 23:56:59 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
yes, he is a nice looking vpi male....

--- On Tue, 11/24/09, PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Shipping
To: "Stan Ruppel" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:48 PM


I didn't even see a pic of him. Please tell me he is holding some color. And he was VPI right? I know I asked I'm just double checking.



In a message dated 11/24/09 23:30:29 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
got them out today, sent a tracking email to you...so you should be able to track it....have a great Thanksgiving and enjoy the animals...you should do really well with them; the male will obviously breed this upcoming season, the girls the next...Stan

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Shipping
To: "Stan Ruppel" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:11 PM


Yes, I heard you are a very nice person. Like I said, I lost my brother recently so I know life can get crazy. I was just getting worried when I didn't hear from you. Also I have a doctors appointment tomorrow to get stitches removed and I needed to know whether or not I needed to get someone to sit here while I was gone. That was the reason for the e-mail. I forgot to say that.

Thanks

Wayne



In a message dated 11/23/09 21:59:33 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Wayne-
Hi, and sorry about the lack of communication....got your email this am, didnt know if it would be today or tomorrow at that time, then things got crazy....tomorrow is my day off, so I'll make sure they go out...sorry to hear of your past experiences! You did hear right about me; Im not out to screw anyone, you'll get your critters!
I'll forward an airbill to you; theyll come UPS on Wednesday am.
Stan

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Shipping
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 9:24 PM


Stan,

I know your life is hectic, but it's 9pm and I have things to do for the holidays. I still haven't heard from you about the axanthic group since I sent you the money. You haven't returned any e-mails pertaining to them, although you did return an e-mail concerning me purchasing more animals from you. I hate to sound rude, but I am very uncomfortable doing internet deals and your lack of communication right now is not making me feel any more secure. This is why I like face-to -face transaction better. I have been told you are a great guy to deal with, but I am starting to grow a bit uneasy. If you can please let me know if you shipped my animals I would appreciate it. If you didn't ship them, I would like to know when you plan on doing so. Once again, sorry if I sound harsh, but I usually have bad luck with things like this so my patience usually are very thin. I apologize again. If you have shipped already, can I please have the tracking number.

Thank You,

Wayne

Here is my shipping address although PayPal should have given it to you.




From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: Ruppel Fireflies, Clowns, Yellow Bellies, FREE het Clowns - GR8 LIST!
To: "Stan Ruppel" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 5:44 PM


Stan,

I'll take the group. Do you want a CC or PayPal? Can you ship tomorrow for Wednesday?

Thanks

Wayne



In a message dated 11/17/09 13:43:48 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
they are in the 700 gram range...if you need exact weights let me know....Stan

--- On Tue, 11/17/09, PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: Ruppel Fireflies, Clowns, Yellow Bellies, FREE het Clowns - GR8 LIST!
To: "Stan Ruppel" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 1:24 PM


Thanks, but what are the weights of the females? I'm 90% going to buy them, I could really use the male. It would just COMPLETELY deplete my "snake account" though. LOL



In a message dated 11/17/09 12:25:42 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Hi! I would place an ad for them, seems to work well....
LMK when you have the cash, or even a down payment ($ 200 would be fine). The male is a proven breeder, the females about 700 grams or so, all eat great on live or FT rats and mice....genetics are 100% guaranteed on these!

--- On Tue, 11/17/09, PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: Ruppel Fireflies, Clowns, Yellow Bellies, FREE het Clowns - GR8 LIST!
To: "Stan Ruppel" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:29 AM


How big are the het females? VPI correct? You produced them? And are any proven breeders, including the male? I don't remember. I just bought my breeder Pewter, it LITERALLY just came out of the bag. I came to email Albey I received it. I'm some what tapped for cash now. $750 sounds like a good deal. I have to get rid of my 1.0 YB, 2.0 pins and my 2.1 pastels. Not a ton of money, but probably $500 if I could find someone to wholesale to. Any suggestions? I know you said you're not interested correct? Thanks Stan



In a message dated 11/17/09 09:02:53 Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Wayne....the pair of Ruppel pastels are sold; however, I will sell you the axanthic group (male axanthic, 2 females het axanthics) for only $750 SHIPPED if youre interested! Stan

--- On Sat, 10/31/09, PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


From: PlayboidReptiles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: Ruppel Fireflies, Clowns, Yellow Bellies, FREE het Clowns - GR8 LIST!
To: "Stan Ruppel" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 5:03 PM


Well, I'm interested one way or another in your stuff. I don't think I can generate $2200, or $1700 for that matter. So I guess I'll go a different route. What's the best you can do for an 09 Ruppel pair and that Axanthic breeder group? What's the weights on the 08 het females? Also, would you be willing to take a trade or partial trade/cash on that deal?

Thanks

Wayne


I will be more than happy to post EVERY mail message back and forth if anyone wants to but it will literally take hours to read.

So why not just send them back and get the full refund?

Sounds like he's being more than agreeable. You didn't like the snakes, or they were not as big as you'd anticipated. Send them back, and get your money back. I certainly would not refund money before the snakes were back in my possession, especially with someone upset that they feel they got a bad deal. Feeling like he owes you $400 for the deal you had set up is way off, IMO.

I'd say... keep 'em, or send them back and get your full refund. Seems to be a pretty easy solve here.

TattooLost said:

Sounds like he's being more than agreeable. You didn't like the snakes, or they were not as big as you'd anticipated. Send them back, and get your money back. I certainly would not refund money before the snakes were back in my possession, especially with someone upset that they feel they got a bad deal. Feeling like he owes you $400 for the deal you had set up is way off, IMO.

I'd say... keep 'em, or send them back and get your full refund. Seems to be a pretty easy solve here.

Click to expand...

Did I miss part where Stan offered a full refund? I might have, I've was up all night in the gecko room...

Doh, never mind I see it now.

I told Stan he could either refund me $300 to offset the loss I was taking because I couldn't sell the het females for $400 anymore. He could send me $450, which is what I was getting for the females plus shipping. Or he could send me $800 which is the original purchase price plus shipping and I would send ALL the animlas back. 3 weeks later, I still have no refund of any kind and now he wants me to send the animals to him first before he refunds my money.

Click to expand...

Was the closest to the top and easiest to find. I skimmed over the rest, bud didn't read it all word for word, but by the OP's own admission he's willing to refund the money after he receives the snakes back. Sounds like SOP to me?

At no point did Stan agree or offer to give me a full refund. I offered him the option to give me a full refund and he never once responded that he was willing to do so. Please reread. I told him from the beginning I would accept a full refund. But after everything he's done, I'm supposed to pay him promptly, get sent the wrong snakes, then send him the snakes back and expect him to refund my money???? I think I've been more than trustworthy. He should return my money first. I trusted him and sent my money to him, he broke that trust. Now I'm supposed to send the animals back and trust him again? I think it's his turn to trust me. Angry or not, that doesn't change the fact I've done nothing to prove I am not trustworthy. Also, I have references to back me and there isn't any, good or bad, posts about me on the BOI. I offered to meet him in person. I will meet him half way between our homes and swap snakes for cash or I will send the snakes to a mutually agreed place, then he can send the money to the middle man, then send the snakes to Stan and the money to me. Stan and I only live a couple hours away from each other. This could have been solved weeks ago. I've waited weeks and at times have been under the impression we had come to an agreement only for Stan to e-mail me days later the terms have changed. I flat out do not trust the man and there isn't anyone who can blame me.

He offered to sell me more snakes for cheaper last night. He said he'd send me the "new" deal this morning. I told him no last night, not to bother. I won't accept any more animals from him. He needs to just refund my money. I would be more than willing to drive and get it. He has not replied again after he promised we would have this settled this morning. I will not ship him anything. In my opinion the man is flat broke and I won't see any of the money until he sells these animals to someone else. What's anyone's opinion on that? Is it too much to assume of good old Stan? From all the posts here I've dug up, I believe it very easy to see if I return the animals I will be waiting weeks for the refund, if I see the refund at all.

Has Stan Ruppel been advised of this thread. It'd be nice to get his side of the story.

Wayne, you said in your opening post that he offered a refund once you sent the snakes back. You demand a partial refund of what you lost on a second deal you made with someone else, or for him to refund you first and then you'll send the snakes back.

I'd like to hear his side of things personally, but I don't see, if you're not satisfied, why you wouldn't just ship off the snakes and then get your money back. If he only offered you a partial refund for the snakes, you should probably state that. When you say "he offered me a refund after i returned the snakes" i'm naturally assuming that means a refund of the full purchase price.

Also, I don't know what OP or SOP means. To be more specific, Stan offered to refund me $300 after I send him back the 2 het females. Which after shipping means he's buying back the hets for $250 dollars when I was flipping them for $400. So once again, I am out money. At no point did he agree to refund all of my money. I apologize for not proof reading my post. I didn't realize I needed to fully explain every step of this process for people to see Stan Ruppel lied, sent me the wrong stuff, and refuses to accept ANY (which included a full refund) of my offers to solve the problem. Is there any other things in my post I missed? Please let me know. I don't understand why anyone feels Stan should have any say so or leverage in this process. He was 100% wrong and admitted it. He refuses to cooperate. He doesn't repond promptly. I will not send anything to Stan Ruppel without my money first. I did nothing wrong, outside of getting pissed off. Why do I have to bend again? Please don't read anything into my choice of words, I am truly asking a question.

I'm sorry, but you keep bringing up the $400 you were planning to flip the hets for. To me, that's neither here nor there, and a moot point in regards to your deal with Stan. It sounds to me like you two are just haggling now over a price for the hets, and who pays/ships first.

On a side note, I know plenty of people that have estimated weights and been off. Before I got a scale I looked at pics on here and tried to estimate the weights of my snakes (I wasn't selling anything at this point, however). Sometimes I was close, sometimes I was quite a bit off. Unless he purposely lied about the ages, I can't see holding that against him. If he's offering a refund to a dissatisfied customer, even better. If he says the visual bred last year, albeit a small guy, I can't see doubting it. I've heard of males breeding that small. *shrug*

I'd really like to hear Stan's side of things. Other than that, good luck working out some kind of agreement you can both walk away from.

Oh, and OP means "original poster." In this case, that would be you, the person who started this thread.

SOP means Standard Operating Procedure.

I don't understand how you think it's a moot point. If Best Buy agreed to buy 46" televisions from Sony, at the 46" price, with the intentions on selling them and Sony sent 26" televisions would you say that's neither here nor there? That's the whole point. He said they were 700 grams, they weren't. Okay, even if I agree with you, which obviously we do not think alike, the fact is they were 299 grams each. That's 400 grams shy. He "guessed" they were double the size???? Come on man. I understand the desire to find out the whole truth (which I am have done my best to post), but finding ANY loop whole what so ever to justify what Stan did is insane. Even if I wasn't selling them, I still would have expected some sort of compensation or refund for the animals not being as described. It just so happens I was selloing them so I have something to rference my loss off of. Does this make more sense to you now Tattoo?

Thanks for explaining OP and SOP.

I'm by no means defending Stan, but as a wise man once said, "There's always three sides to a story." Most of the time when I post in the BOI, it's because I'd like to get that third side, the truth. So, let's get to that. Let's try this. Do you have any pics showing the snakes on a scale showing their weights? I'm not doubting you, but that would certainly remove any doubt out there.
Also, do you have any emails stating the refund offers by Stan? I'll go back and reread your first post, so if it's already in those emails, I apologize in advance.
One last point, and it's funny that you use Best Buy as an analogy, simply because I used them in another thread in here recently. Let's say that did happen. Let's say you ordered two 42" televisions, and they were shipped to you. When they arrived, however, it was two 26" televisions. You would certainly expect to return them for a refund. Do you think that Best Buy would refund your money and then trust you to send the televisions back? Most businesses, I would assume, would tell you to ship them back and THEN they would refund your money.

Without Stan here to defend himself or give his side of the story, I don't know what you're expecting here. I'm sorry you weren't satisfied with the deal, and I do hope you two get it worked out. Good luck!

I agree that Stan probably doesn't owe you what you lost from your other deal falling through, that really is not part of your transaction with him. However he did misrepresent the snakes and owes you a proper refund or compensation for the difference. If you want to keep the male you either have to agree upon a reasonable value for the hets or return the whole bundle for a full refund (which will probably be your best bet at this point). Standard procedure is typically the animals get returned and then a refund is issued, however since there is a trust issue if you can't meet and do a face to face swap, perhaps an middle man would be a better option.

I will say that if he told you those animals were 700 grams and they were closer to 300 that really is a huge misrepresentation, not only on size but that's a whole seasons difference in breeding.

For visual this is a 700 gram snake and a 300 gram snake (These are my snakes not the ones in question):



Certainly someone with his experience would be able to tell the difference between a 700 gram snake and a 300 gram snake eyeballing it, if he wasn't sure he should have double checked not relied on what he vaguely recalled them being. And in the end it is his responsibility to make sure those animals are accurately represented. Also even if they hadn't eaten in 3-4 weeks as he claims, a healthy snake would not lose that much weight in that amount of time, I won't even go into how disturbing the whole not having been fed in 3-4 weeks is.

Anyway IMO you lost your cool (which you've admitted to) and demanded some things that really aren't exactly reasonable but it seems like a lot of excuses and little working towards making things right with his customer on his end as well. As frustrating as it may be keep your head and your temper in check - and work on a resolution.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the constructive input. I do have pictures of the animals the minute they came out of the box. I also have the shipping box, and reference number that says (I'm assuming) the exact weight of the box (I hope). An 800 gram difference should show up in the shipping weight (don't you think)? I tried posting the pictures with the original post, I will try again. They are not good pictures, I apologize. I am no photographer. I'm going to try and post them again. If they do not show up will someone instruct me how to properly post pics here.

I appreciate people's opinion on why they think the issue of me reselling the hets isn't relevant, but from my stand point I don't see how you could think that. Stan not sending what I paid for is the only reason why I can't resell them at the price I was offered. How anyone can say these issues aren't connected baffles me.

On another note, Stan does know this thread is started. I informed him I posted it. Actually I told him I'm going to post it everywhere I can. I don't know where else to post. From his response it does not seem he has any intentions on engaging in any forum posts.

Just an observation, but it appears the first two pictures are the same snake, unless they're twins hatched out of the same egg? Do you have pics of the second het?

Besides that, yes, I'd say they're quite a bit under what was represented.

As for your flip deal to sell the hets, as I said, I don't see it as relevant to a refund. As Stan himself said, if you had a deal to sell the two hets for $800, would you be expecting $800 back for them since the deal couldn't go through as planned. I can see where you would WANT the $400 back, but I think really you should be amicable to some sort of negotiation on that price. As Stan stated, the price you paid is pretty good for a visual and two hets, so you have to factor in the value of the visual versus the hets out of the total price. That's just my opinion though, and as I said, I hope this ends with both parties feeling like they can walk away without losing their rear end.

One last point, then I'm done. Even if he guessed wrong, he knew those animals weren't even close to 700 grams each when he packaged them. Why wouldn't he contact me then and tell me before he shipped them? He planned on me accepting those animals from the minute he boxed them up if not sooner. He didn't expect me to respond like this. I asked him about this and he never commented one way or another.

I see your point tattoolost. It is fair. But that was his justification on why I should be happy with the hets in the first place. No matter what size they were, they were worth what I paid. That's not a fair way to decide either. If that deal was so great and worth it, why wasn't he able to sell them to someone else. Or why didn't he call and disclose their true weight before shipping. I don't see any other way to value the animals. I took in account what I lost by them not being what was advertised. As far as the pics go, I only took one of each. I will go down stairs right now and see if either A) They truly are "twins" or B) I mistakingly took 2 pics of the same animals. I doing it right now.

Playboid said:

I appreciate people's opinion on why they think the issue of me reselling the hets isn't relevant, but from my stand point I don't see how you could think that. Stan not sending what I paid for is the only reason why I can't resell them at the price I was offered. How anyone can say these issues aren't connected baffles me.

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Because plain and simple Stan's only obligation is to meet the terms of his sale to you. He's not really responsible for your promises just his own. What if your customer accepted the smaller snakes. But really he only needed one het anyway and he has a customer lined up to buy the second one but that customer doesn't want the smaller snake are you then liable for his lost sale?