Justin Mitcham... false advertising, poor business ethics

Let me start by saying I have never done business with Justin. I'm sure Justin has a good reputation with some. A few days ago a friend sent me an email with Justin's web page link. Imagine my surprise when I opened it to the Hognose Page and saw a hog I produced headlining the page. Normally that would be a GREAT compliment but as I read on I realized Justin was taking credit for producing him. I emailed Justin asking him to please correct his web page. Justins response was not what I was expecting. Below are copies of the emails exchanged between myself and Justin. I even emailed him today but he just deletes them without reading. I feel people should see how he conducts his business. Ron Radloff dba "The Crawl Space"
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Subject: website
Date: 4/27/2007 10:07:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
Nice website.... However I don't appreciate you taking credit for creating the red albinos when you had NOTHING to do with it. I created that line and the only reason you produced ANY is because of your unethical business practice. Please correct your web page.

Ron Radloff ,originator of the Red Albino... dba "The Crawl Space"
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 1:07:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Asnakemann
Reply To:
To: Herphobbyist

"Originator of the red albino"actually his name is Cheeto..LOL!! I'll have you a shirt made up with a picture and send it to you..lol I never saw anyone so ate up by someone else's success in my life.. the fact I used that male to create my line is eating you alive... I never claimed I created that male, but I was the 1st to breed and refine this line into it's purest and nicest form and produce the nicest red albino's ever..that male I got from Omar is awesome and at the time the nicest red albino known..but he is blown away by his offspring which I produced....SOMETHING YOU NEVER DID!! You bred BHB X Opherman..one time...I am breeding BHB/Opherman X Opherman HUGE DIFFERENCE BUD!! And that's why I call them Extreme Red albino's because I recognize( and everyone else) how awesome this breeding combination is.... next you'll be saying you came up with that phrase too..your worse than Al Gore. You didn't even know you had a jackpot animal..you didn't even sex it right and from day one you been attacking me because of your mistakes. I chose not to complain 4 months later after I discovered you and Omar had missexed it (or was it Chad's fault).It fit my plans better so I wasn't unhappy!! You should be mad at him not me or mad at Omar..you never even sold me this snake or had anything to do with it and after I purchased it I contacted you and you were an ass. BUT you feel I should give you the animal or make Omar give me back my cash because you made a mistake!!! Your just sore and wish you had this snake!! I owe you nothing and you know it..you are just trying to come up with a way to blame me for your mistake of selling it to Omar in the 1st place. I own this animal not you, I own the rights to his genetics and if I use them to create a line of superior animals then I have the right to call them whatever I want period.The market will decide my success at it not you!! Your a complete loser for behaving this way..if you weren't such a jerk I would of mentioned you on my site etc..heck if you weren't such a jerk when I emailed you the 1st time I would of probably sent him to you for breeding.. Anyone who ask's where he came from I have told them the truth... get a life and a project and stop being so jealous of mine.
BTW you wouldn't of even known what you produced if it weren't for me!! And heck if you did you'd be selling them for what 800.00?? your being an ass!!
EXTREMEHOGS.COM
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 8:46:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

If you buy a pastel ball python and breed it to a clean normal and produce a cleaner pastel you DON'T get to re-name the pastel..PERIOD!!! I produced those animals several years in a row NOT once. I produced those animals from 2 different looking females, that tells me the male was dominent. Just because your animals look a little different doesn't mean YOU created them. I priced them so people could afford them, not to gouge them. I'm not jealous of you. It just bothers me that theres unethical people like you in this wonderful hobby taking advantage of others hard work. The ethical thing to do was contact Omar and tell him of the sexing mistake BUT you didn't. Had you paid for a male and received a female you would have. Oh and you NEVER contacted me first, I contacted you after seeing you post the red male on the forum. I contacted you because you were giving credit to all producers of your het FEMALES and not the producer of the red male, ME. One can only assume your plan to claim that line was already in the making. But you had to come clean once I called you out. I made the mistake with Omar but would have lived with it and wished him well. On the other hand you knew and kept your mouth shut. Please don't tell me you didn't realize for months that it was a male because I don't believe you. That snake was big enough to sight sex when you purchased it and you are VERY familiar with hognose. Jealous.. NOT!! I'd rather be penniless and honest than be you. I contacted you last year about doing the right thing with Omar and you wouldn't. Now I find myself having to contact you about stealing credit for my work... I wouldn't call that jealous. Do the right thing for once Justin. Comparing me to Al Gore tells me you are a Republican.. If I'm not mistaking almost all the Republicans in this administration have been brought up on charges.. figures you would take that side.
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 10:08:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Asnakemann
Reply To:
To: Herphobbyist

You have to be the most ate up person I have ever seen.. I am Independent BTW
Your arguments are so childish and stupid..they don't even merit discussion.
BTW I stand to make 50-75k off them this year.. all for a small investment..did you know I only paid an average of 300ea for the albino , red het and adult normal female. Then I traded the het male to Jim S for 6 het females that are 350-450grams now and fixing to lay.
It's not my fault you are a screw up, I heard you roasted some balls this past year..man ever hear of Karma, maybe if you weren't so full of bitterness things like this wouldn't happen too you. Going through life blaming others for why you are a looser is not healthy..you need to grow up.
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 1:23:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

justify this anyway you want but you're a thief and a liar..PERIOD having a thermostat malfunction has nothing to do with being a screw up ... people are going to be able to decide by themselves very soon... glad to know this is just about money to you and not about the animals... Jim told me that you made an unreasonable trade offer but that doesn't surprise me... a thief is a thief and a liar is a liar.. and you are both..
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Justin then emailed my friend Sam. Here are the emails that were exchanged. I had CC'd Sam my response to Justin since he was the one that recognized my animal on Justins page and notified me.
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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Fwd: website

You know Sam I find it very interesting he sent you a copy of what he sent me..are you two brooding over my animals..I hope you aren't cussing me as well.. Let not forget selling me 2k snake that died before I received it..lets not forget I sold some of my own prize animals to buy that snake, animals I never got back or bred again!! Also lets keep in mind the 800.00 in tricolors that died on me in addition, the tricolors I was graciously willing to take because you had already spent all of my cash.The same tricolors I had to quarantine for over a month because they kept dying, just like the one that died within minutes of arrival. If your sore that's cool, I am a little over that deal myself, I can care less what you think.. But I was civil to you when I could of been a dick and you owe me the same,how would of it felt to see that posted on the BOI for spending my cash and sending me bad animals..I could of very easily demanded my money back and the whole thing could of went very bad for you.. but instead I worked with you , I never got mad etc..Yes I kept that money you sent me..it was for loosing another pair of tri's from that group you sent..I still have them frozen in delicup if you doubt me. Keep in mind that bad mouthing someone works both ways, Ron is a Bitter ate up POS..people like that always fail because there jealousy blinds them..If I find out your trashing me too I can start telling people about my deal with you and how bad it went etc..I understand you are Ron's friend , but don't let him drag you down into this.
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 5:11:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
Reply To:
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]

hi Justin
why the heck are you attacking me?> did you see me say anything ? he is just showing me what's going on and he knows I always like to get a laugh....
and in regards of that female I understood you helped me out but no need to keep bringing it up , we made the deal things happened ....end of story.....
I'm not brooding over your animal , as you now I already got the collection from Ron I have the parents of your extreme male why would I brood on your animal? and I am setting on about 70+ eggs right now and all my females are gravid again ? if I want to be a show off I would have posted on line that I have your snakes origin but I left it alone didn't I? so before you go and attack me read the message do you see my name or me saying anything I am forwarding this to Ron as will so he can see for him self.... what I say cause he is involved in this as will .. now about the bad mouthing ?????
do you really think I have time for that? you want to bad mouth me go for it not going to waste my time with anything on my part...........................................
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What Justin fails to mention is the tri-colors were sent as NON FEEDING which he agreed to. I know because Sam ran the deal past me prior to shipping to Justin. Sam CC'd me their email exchange, my response to Justin is below.
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 8:18:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
When you're using the term POS you must be looking in a mirror. After all you're the one that had to cheat and lie to achieve your status. I know you think I'm jealous but I sold off my red albino project to pursue other projects. I hardly have any hogs left and NO albino project. I'm just upset that you're taking credit for something you didn't do. As far as your deal with Sam he did nothing wrong. He sent animals and they had problems. Sam offered a solution and you accepted it. Then when Sam sent you money for something else you stole it. Fellow hobbyists don't judge one for problems that may arise on a sale. They look to see how the seller handles the problem and Sam worked it out. But since you don't care about anything but money you wouldn't understand that. Like I said you can justify your unethical actions all you want but that doesn't make them right... Ron
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/28/2007 10:53:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann
CC: [email protected]

I copy and pasted the following line from Justins email to Sam as it was the line I was referring to in my response to Justin. The actual response to Justin shows the entire message in which I high lighted this line in red.

"""Yes I kept that money you sent me.."""

Justin,
I really like the line I high lighted in RED. Pretty much confessed to being a thief in that line. You kept Sams money without his permission... shame on you. Ron
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/29/2007 12:00:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
I thought you might like to see a paragraph from your web page, especially the line in blue!! What I find amazing is that you claim to have created the Extreme Red Albino. However the Extreme Red albino male outlined in blue below was produced by me. How could you have out crossed the BEST specimens you could find to produce that male when that was your first year breeding it? Like I said you're a liar that takes credit for others work. Ron

EXTREME RED ALBINO'S

This line in my opinion is the finest line of albino's that exist today. This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find. Unlike most red phase hogs this line actually gain color as they mature. Over the years some albino hogs have been plagued with health and fertility issues. This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my Extreme Albino male fathered 80 offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing
PRICE:

Extreme Red Albino's $1,500ea

Extreme Red Hets $400-500ea
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The problem I have with statement above that I highlighted in blue is simple!! I produced that animal that fathered the 80 offspring. so Justin couldn't have created him through selected outcross breedings. Those 80 hatchlings were the FIRST Justin produced PERIOD!!!
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Here is Justins Hognose page. http://extremehogs.com/Hognose.html
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I emailed Justin the following but he wouldn't respond back.
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Subject: Re: website
Date: 4/30/2007 1:45:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
Look at the picture, does that snake look familiar? I'm asking you nicely not to take credit for my work. I'm not looking for you to give me credit on your page, I just don't want you taking credit for my work. Hopefully you'll reword your webpage and this won't have to be posted on the BOI. Ron Radloff

I couldn't attach the picture here but will gladly email to anyone that wants to see it. It is a pic of the hog he claims to be his Extreme Red breeder male when it was a hatchling. Maybe someone can attach it for me, thanks Ron Radloff
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I emailed the exact same message today but he deleted it without reading it.

Subject: website... second request
Date: 5/2/2007 7:28:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
Look at the picture, does that snake look familiar? I'm asking you nicely not to take credit for my work. I'm not looking for you to give me credit on your page, I just don't want you taking credit for my work. Hopefully you'll reword your webpage and this won't have to be posted on the BOI. Ron Radloff
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I finally received an email from Justin. However it was just a link. I guess he thought it would justify his actions..

Subject: (no subject)
Date: 5/2/2007 9:56:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Asnakemann
Reply To:
To: Herphobbyist

http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=39
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I emailed Justin a final time but once again he deleted it without reading it.

Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: 5/2/2007 10:03:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

I just emailed Rich from Fauna to make sure I would be posting in the correct forum. Once I hear back from him I'll be posting all the emails we exchanged. I want everyone to see the profanity you called me. I wonder how many other herpers have had a thermostat malfunction that caused them to lose snakes. I wonder if they think they are screw ups as you indicated. All I wanted was for you to correct your web page and you refused. I took a screen shot of your web page in case you try to change it in an attempt to deny my claim. I guess you can say I don't trust you. Ron Radloff
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I was hoping it wouldn't come to this but it has. I know there will be some people backing up Justin and that's fine. I just think people should know what type of business ethics Justin practices. Ron Radloff dba "The Crawl Space"













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Uh, since I have other things to do besides try to figure what the hell you are talking about, could you condense your gripe into a form that makes sense, without agonizing deciphering?

hope this helps

Usually when theres a complaint posted readers ask to see the emails so they can determine what transpired. I thought I would post them but apparently you don't want to read them. Here it is in a nutshell... I produced a high red strain of albino western hogs 3 years in a row. Justin purchased one of the males that I produced from another individual. Now Justin is claiming he outcrossed the finest lines to create the Extreme Red Albino. The problem is I produced that male not him. Easy enough? Ron Radloff

Not saying you don't have a point, just saying, if you think I am going to put on my waders, and sort through that pile of crap you just posted, get a clue.

herphobbyist said:

Usually when theres a complaint posted readers ask to see the emails so they can determine what transpired. I thought I would post them but apparently you don't want to read them. Here it is in a nutshell... I produced a high red strain of albino western hogs 3 years in a row. Justin purchased one of the males that I produced from another individual. Now Justin is claiming he outcrossed the finest lines to create the Extreme Red Albino. The problem is I produced that male not him. Easy enough? Ron Radloff

Click to expand...

Yes, Ron, that is a much better post.

It is best to state your case plainly and simply at the beginning, in a couple sentences, then provide evidence, as needed.

False Advertising and unethical

I did sell Justin a high red albino years ago which originated from Regis O. As far as I know he outcrossed that animal to get high red albinos. If I bred a snake from someone else to a different snake and got something spectacular I would call it my line. I produce red and white bi-color albino hondurans which came from Renaissance Reptiles but I still call it my red and white line.

Ron you make no sense...
Everyone knows you produced that male..but you see your not the only person working with the line and your animal isn't the only one from that line in my collection..also how am I a theif because I kept a missexed animal that you didn't sell to me..how did I steal that animal from you..you have been cussing me for years over this please explain how you have any rights to an animal that you sold then was sold again to me???

Sam sold me a bunch of dying and diseased hogs..I kept his money because for one I had to quarentine all the animals I had to take in becasue he spent my 2000 before shipping...now thats ethical..half of the tricolors died...I think all in all I came out being compensated around 1800-1900 for the 2000 that I sent him including the 400.00...also I had to use my time and resources to sell the animals to get my cash back...doesn't my time account for anything, did I really get back what I spent no...I told him I was doing this and he didn't even argue your just trying to use that against me..
You need to stop being so bitter and jealous because you fumbled the ball and I made a TD with it...

Don

The snake he posted as being HIS breeder was produced by me... Ron Radloff

The snake he posted as being HIS breeder was produced by me... Ron Radloff

Click to expand...

It is his breeder male. He owns the animal now, not you. I don't understand what you are so angry about. Can you please explain the story about the missexing of the snake?

Justin

How could I be cussing you out for years when that snake hatched out on 6-14-05 and you only bred him one year. Just because you didn't buy it directly from me doesn't mean I didn't produce it. If Don Shores sold you animals like that years ago as he stated above how come you've never produced this line up until now? As far as stealing, you stole my accomplishments and claimed them as your own. I expect many of your friends to come to your side but there will be some that will see the truth. Ron Radloff

So in a nut shell Ron is made because he missexed a killer snake that I used in my project and I won't just give it to him. He wants credit for me breeding that male back to it's line..producing perhaps the nicest red albino hogs ever..
Ron wants free advertising on my site!!
He feels that it should be Ron Radloffs Extreme Red Albino's intstead of mine..the guy who is actually producing them..he feels I have no right to name the animals I am producing "my line"
Ron feels I stold this project from him and he is very upset!!
He also thinks that I am telling folks I hatched out the male he is reffering too, even know he cannot provide one individual or email to back up that claim.
Personally I can care less...Ron needs to grow up!!

Kelli

The second line of his webpage says he created this line by outcrossing. Then the second to the last line he said his EXTREME RED male fathered 80 young. My complaint is how could he have created that male when I PRODUCED it. That is false advertisment and a blatant lie. The sexing issue is something all together unrelated to this link. But I'll explain anyway. I can not sex hatchling hogs period. I took my hogs to Chad Fuchs and he sexed them for me. Unfortunately Chad sexed that snake as a female and I sold it as such. The guy who bought decided to sell it a few months later and Justin was the buyer. There is no way Justin didn't know that snake was male because it was SIGHT sexable at that time. But instead of Justin doing the right thing with the NOVICE seller he decided to shut up. Like I said had he paid for a male and received a female he would have called the seller before the delivery truck left his driveway. Thats unethical... Ron Radloff

Justin

Go read the emails we exchanged. I never asked for any advertisments on your page. I never asked for any of your animals or even a discount. As far as proof that I hatched that snake out... I have the original photo receipt that was sent to the original buyer. The snake you claim to be your outcrossed EXTREME BREEDER male is pictured on that receipt. That is the picture I couldn't post on the thread. I have NO problem with you producing tons of his offspring. If I didn't want people producing them I wouldn't have sold any. However no matter what Don sold you, you wouldn't have produced snakes like that or you would have already. My problem is the way you worded your web page. It comes across that you produced the male in question. Thats where the problem with me arises. I would be a fool not to expect your fellow Texans to come to your side, after all you probably do the same shows. I've sold to Don before and know he's a stand up guy. Ron Radloff

The male was bred to an outcrossed opherman red female unrelated to your animals...that is the very definition of outcrossing...man are you really that dense..btw
you say I knew it was a male...then why did I buy a albino male from Don Shores to go with it? Why did I make Jim Seargent give me 6 het females for the het male..ask him the reason why is because I wanted to use the het male to breed to "her" he wanted the same since he had a female from the same clutch..he paid out the yinyang for him and that was the reason!!! Ask John Schmidt..I emailed him a pic shortly after recieving them and told him of the "Pair" I recieved..In all honestly it is up to me to decide if I am to complain over a missexed animal not you... Also it's quite egg headed to reason that it was sight sexable and that I would of known...but Omar wasn't able to make that determination and sex it right..if it was so obvious why couldn't you ,Chad Fuchs and Omar get it right? But you say I knew the moment I got him and you know what..why wouldn't I be happier if it was a male..heck I can spread the genetics around much easier...but the truth is I didn't even bother to double check...I just bought the nicest albino hog in the land for a few hundred bucks...LOL

the other albino male I later sold right after I found out she was a he..ask Adam Sweetman he is the one who bought that particular male!

Justin

Let me try writing this s l o w e r so maybe you'll understand. I have NO problem with the animals you produced. My problem is with the way your page is worded. Anyone reading it will assume you produced the breeder male. When you start by saying the line was created by outcrossing, then use the male I produced as your EXTREME RED as the example. Is it registering yet? Omar didn't missex the snake because he didn't feel a need to sex it. I told him that Chad had sexed it for me so he took that as good. BUT you are an experienced hognose hobbyist and YES that snake was big enough to SIGHT sex when you got it. Maybe it is your right to NOT mention a sex mishap. That doesn't mean it is ethical. Makes one wonder what you do with your customers. As far as the trdae with Jim you already knew the albino was a male when you made the deal with him. Jim didn't want me to mention he bought the banded sister to the male because he knew how you operated. Justify this anyway you want.... There will be people that will see this for what it is. Ron Radloff

is this what your complaining about?

The male you are reffering to has only one pic on the entire site..ALL the other albino's were produced by me!!

This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find.

Click to expand...

is this what erks you?
I can name the animals I produce my line right?

I found a nice outcrossed albino male that you produced

I found some nice outcrossed females that others produced

I combined the two to prodcue the nicest albino's ever..

the above statement is 100% accurate...

Just to clarify...as far as I know Regis never bred in the albino gene to his line..so in order for this to happen they had to be outcrossed.. the females I used were outcrossed as well for the gene...so was yours, making all the females outcrossed..correct?
So in all your doing this over semantics...man you are ate up!!