Justin Mitcham... false advertising, poor business ethics

[herphobbyist]

Justin

The male you are reffering to has only one pic on the entire site..ALL the other albino's were produced by me!!



Justin,
Lets try this again... By reading these 2 statements from your web page one would get the impression you produced the male that produced the 80 offspring.

This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find.

This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my Extreme Albino male fathered 80 offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing

The male that fathered the 80 offspring was produced by ME and that is where I have the issue. I could care less if you need to pat yourself on the back, just don't do it at my expense!! Ron Radloff

 

[herphobbyist]

Justin

Sam sold me a bunch of dying and diseased hogs..I kept his money because for one I had to quarentine all the animals

I would hope you quarantine all new arrivals!!! You failed to mention how you happen to have Sam's money. Let me explain it for you. The original deal was said and done. You informed Sam that you had an opportunity to purchase a hog collection or project and asked if he wanted in. Sam said yes and sent the money you requested then WAHLA!!!! You kept it.. Real professional business practice there Justin.. Ron Radloff

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Ok so your taking up for a guy who did the following and calling me unethical??

Sam Tried to dump a 2k snake before it died, why would he sell the nicest snake in his collection heck one of the nicest anywhere?

Sam spent all my 2000.00 before shipping and wouldn't give it back

Sam then sent me dying tricolors to compensate for spending my cash

Yes I offered Sam a deal that didn't work out, I think I was pretty cool with him for what he did..Sam sent me 400.00( funny he had cash for the deal huh?), I then lost more tricolors..sent him pics of them and told him I am keeping the cash as compensation in case more die..more did die..I informed him and sent pics He did not argue or complain..only asked me to keep it between us which I did..until now.
You come on here giving 3rd party testimony which is against the rules, why isn't he on here? because he has no gripes..I am finished arguing with you...Have a nice day and watch those thermostats!!

 

[Justin Mitcham]

For those wanting to know what the fuss is over you can visit my site ExtremeHogs.com

 

[jsrocket]

Ron, you are simply out of gas. You sold the snake, which was then re - sold to Justin, who got lucky, largely in part to his own efforts.

I sold my '69 Mustang Fastback for 265.00, in 1978. It's now worth over 15 grand, but I don't go around hounding the owner about it. Move on.

 

[garweft]

This is the dumbest complaint I have ever heard. It's his animal. He never said he produced it. It is just his founding male for the very nice red albinos that he produces.

Besides didn't Richard Evans start all the albino lines anyway? But he got his founder as a W/C, so maybe God produced it. So maybe we should just name any animal produced the God line. Get over yourself.

 

[AncientDNA]

This is a ridiculous post Ron.
I read ALL of the emails and went to Justins site. Non of your claims are substantiated. You have no legs to stand on.
If anything, you're the one who made all of the mistakes.
Just get over the fact that someone else used a sweet animal you produced and took it a step farther.

 

[herphobbyist]

so sad

It is so sad to see that people can't comprehend what this thread is about. I know they don't comprehend because they keep bringing up the fact that Justin now owns the male, or the offspring he produced. This thread is not about either of those 2 subjects. Then theres the albino and God theory, that speaks for itself. This thread is ABOUT the wording on his webpage. I guess I shouldn't except people to understand unless it happened to them. Justin keep in mind that just because a few people responded in your favor doesn't change anything. There are MANY that will read this and see the truth. Just because they didn't post their opinion here doesn't mean they haven't formed one. They will see the unethical ways you conduct business. I just received a CC of an email Sam sent to you regarding your post on here about the trade you 2 did. Sam asked me not to post it at this time. I assume he is a waiting on a response from you. Once he gives me the OK I will post it and people will read his side of the story. Then they can use their own judgement to decide whether what you did to him was right or unethical. Sam is one of the nicest most honest people I've ever met and has many friends and fellow herpers that can testify to that fact. Sam didn't bring the issue to this board because he just figured he'd chalk it up to experience. Ron Radloff

 

[DISCERN]

" This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find.

This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my Extreme Albino male fathered 80 offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing"-Justin Mitcham

This is beyond absurd and by far one of the most immature posts regarding an accusation towards someone I have ever read on the BOI. There is no substance involved, but just a waste of time resulting from someone, for reason's unknown, taking one sentence out of context and creating what is commonly called as, " creating something out of nothing."

The above quote is so apparent that it DOES NOT give the reader the impression that the breeder who used the term, " My Extreme Albino male ", that it was his that he hatched, but is just stating a plain fact: the use of the word " my " designates that it was JUSTIN's snake. He could have hatched it out, he could have not. He could have bought it from Shores, Kerry King, or Santa. He could have not.

Either way, it doesn't matter. This post is just the result of a complete misinterpretation of how someone ( Ron ) read a sentence, and then wants to create a problem with Justin, complaining about how his name is not listed alongside the male Extreme hog.

Could it be that Ron is jealous of how nice the Extreme line looks, in terms of babies produced? Could be. Could it be Ron regrets not having that male anymore? It is possible.

The point is, Ron, that what you have done is created a bunch of nonsense with nothing to substantiate. I am quite surprised that you have acted this way, as I always enjoying reading your posts over on the pit forum on Kingsnake years ago, and always thought you had very nice animals.
More important things in life are going on. Life is too short to be throwing such a fit over how one sentence is worded on a website that maybe doesn't have your name put on it, or your name attached to a certain morph of snake that you had actually sold and gotten rid of to begin with.

Move on.

 

[monkeywrench133]

It is so sad to see that people can't comprehend what this thread is about. I know they don't comprehend because they keep bringing up the fact that Justin now owns the male, or the offspring he produced. This thread is not about either of those 2 subjects. Then theres the albino and God theory, that speaks for itself. This thread is ABOUT the wording on his webpage. I guess I shouldn't except people to understand unless it happened to them. Justin keep in mind that just because a few people responded in your favor doesn't change anything. There are MANY that will read this and see the truth. Just because they didn't post their opinion here doesn't mean they haven't formed one. They will see the unethical ways you conduct business. I just received a CC of an email Sam sent to you regarding your post on here about the trade you 2 did. Sam asked me not to post it at this time. I assume he is a waiting on a response from you. Once he gives me the OK I will post it and people will read his side of the story. Then they can use their own judgement to decide whether what you did to him was right or unethical. Sam is one of the nicest most honest people I've ever met and has many friends and fellow herpers that can testify to that fact. Sam didn't bring the issue to this board because he just figured he'd chalk it up to experience. Ron Radloff

You're a real piece of work, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Most people don't agree with you because the way his page is written does not say, nor does it imply, that he produced the snake which you sold to someone who sold it to him.

The sentence in question can only reasonably be interpreted to mean that he now owns the snake. Which he in fact does.

Period. End of Argument.

The only sad thing here is that you won't accept the fact that "people" don't want to allow you to twist the meaning of the language to suit your whim.

As far as any issue between this Sam guy and Justin: If Sam has a problem, let HIM bring it to the BOI. You? Mind your own business. You appear to have to much to handle in that regard as it is. Don't take on someone else's issues when you can't deal with your own.

To be perfectly honest, after reading this thread, the only person who's ethics or morals are in question is you.

 

[Otter_23]

Controversy just seems to follow you doesn't it Ron.

 

[Mangshan]

WOW!!!
Ron, I want to thank you for confirming everything I thought about Justin Mitcham!
I recently (TODAY) finished a deal with Justin Mitcham, and you can read my post about how things went.
Yes, you have been able to prove that Justin is indeed a straight shooter.
You have done a wonderful job advertising his website as well!
Makes me want to do a deal with him again right now.
Imagine all the traffic his site will get now.....I sure LOTS of people will now be drooling over his OWN LINE of EXTREME RED HOGNOSE!!!
Perhaps Justin does owe you....for being such a great advertising agent. LOL
Meanwhile, I think a lot of people have learned a thing or two about you ....and your rather petty nature. "Crawl" back out to "space"....or where ever you surfaced from?
This thread was a waste of everyone's time...but it was a pretty good laugh.

 

[Mangshan]

(NOTE: The above post did contain a bit of obvious sarcasm.)
I thought I might need to spell that out for Ron.
Thanks again Justin!
Your friend,
Harlin

 

[loteer]

The male you are reffering to has only one pic on the entire site..ALL the other albino's were produced by me!!



Justin,
Lets try this again... By reading these 2 statements from your web page one would get the impression you produced the male that produced the 80 offspring.

This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find.

This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my Extreme Albino male fathered 80 offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing

The male that fathered the 80 offspring was produced by ME and that is where I have the issue. I could care less if you need to pat yourself on the back, just don't do it at my expense!! Ron Radloff

Actually after reading those two statements i gather that he didn't breed the male. See the part where Justin says "This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find. " That right there tells it all.

 

[Mangshan]

Yep.
I thought Justin printed it pretty clearly.
It also seems strange that Ron wants so much credit for breeding snakes, which even he himself admits, he is not even competent enough to accurately sex!
Something is wrong with that picture.
This whole thread kinda backfired on you...didn't it Ron?
It would have been a lot less embarassing to have just kept your self-absorbed bitterness private. Wake up and smell the sour grapes.

 

[A_Mc]

Several minutes of my life have been forever lost reading this...I want them back.
So, let me get this straight--
1. Ron sold a snake
2. Justin bought said snake
3. Justin bred said snake
4. JUSTIN's breeding of said snake to unsaid snake produces some screamers
5. Justin 'names' progeny of his breeding
6. Ron wants credit for Justin's reproductive success (well, maybe not Justin's reproductive success, but the snake's)
Is this right, or have I missed where some actual harm or loss was incurred by Ron??

 

[Griz]

I don't know either Justin or Ron but here is my synopsis of the events:

Ron =

Justin =

then

Ron =

so

Justin =

And now

Ron = according to most here.

That about sums it up. Ridiculous post Ron, ridiculous.

Griz

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Thanks for the support everyone, sorry for my language in my private emails he posted, I have been dealing with his stupid emails and IM's forever it seems..this guy just won't let it be..and I am getting tired of his crap hence the foul language.
Ron if Sam has an issue he should bring it here himself..posting a 3rd party message is against the rules and is unfair since the accused cannot face the accuser..or is that your plan? Sam doesn't need you holding his hand or prodding him to do something. BTW your last few emails and sam's were deleted without being opened..I am not going to let you 2 waste more of my time with this dribble.
To Sam... you know exactly what happened and if you want to get into it here then be my guest...fight your own fight, don't have Ron do it for you...
I am sure people would like to know why you spent money that wasn't yours
Why you didn't return it
Why I had to accept animals and resell them to get my money back
And what disease your hognose collection is infected with?
You said in your original email you had the animals that fathered that male..good job since the original father died on Ron..thats an accomplishement should name him Lazurus..and BTW don't get cocky your at least 2 generations and a dozen holdbacks behind at this point!!
To Jim Seargent I don't know if your reading this but a few things Ron said bothered me..
last year I was hesitant do the Tiger Hog deal with you because of some nasty things Sam said about you etc..had me wondering...now Ron says similar things..I have never talked with you except once nor have I ever done any buisiness with you..so if you really did make those comments you should try forming your own opinions on someone YOU KNOW and have experiences with. If they are putting words in your mouth my sincere appologies..I will treat there comments like a grain of salt!!

 

[Seamus Haley]

Now... claiming to be the originator of a line or morph when one isn't is a bad thing.

Justin hasn't done that though; as I understand it, he was the first to produce offspring that have the color he's identified with the named line. He did not purchase a proven tendency and then slap his name on it, he purchased several animals and then selectively bred for the trait he later chose to name. So it's not a false claim.

To show the difference... Rainwater bought an albino gecko *project* that had been proved by it's originator to have a gebetic base and to breed true then claimed that he was the first person to successfully breed the trait out... and put his name on it.

Ron, can you see the very important difference between the two situations?

 

[herphobbyist]

Justin

Based on the posts made here since my last visit it appears that most think I am in the wrong. I guess if they spent 6 years to produce that color gene they would understand. This was never about the offspring you created. It was never about getting my name on your website. Apparently it doesn't matter what it was about. I would like to take this time to thank those that did post their opinion and apoligize if you feel I wasted your time. I will take this as a lesson learned. Ron Radloff