How do we increase the integrity of the BOI?

Well, I've about had my fill of hearing from people that the BOI is a "joke", or no one takes it seriously. If this is the case, then I guess I need to throw this out on the table to see what it will take in order to fix it. This has been addressed several times in the past in several different ways, but still a perfect solution has been thus far unobtainable. So perhaps it is time to figure out what is REALLY needed here to accomplish a meaningful change.

Suspending people has little effect when they can simply register again via a hotmail account. As long as they make a moderate attempt at hiding their identity and the manner in which they type, they can certainly get away with this. But will the cure be worse than the disease?

There are several camps here. One camp is composed of people who seem to come here simply for the entertainment value. Well, no harm in that, I guess, but that really isn't what I had in mind for the BOI. Another camp is composed of people who really do try to make this work the way it is supposed to. Although some will go a bit overboard with their enthusiasm, I believe the intentions are good, but the manner of delivery could certainly use some work. Then there are the lurkers. People who come here simply to read and learn, perhaps specifically seeking out information about someone they are intending to do business with, or perhaps just searching to see if their names have popped up here anywhere.

The question is, what sort of method of attack to bring this site back to some sort of respectability will match the needs of everyone who comes here for all of the above reasons? Nothing will ever be perfect, and not everyone will be pleased, no matter what is done. So do I continue to try minor ineffectual changes or do I just bite the bullet and make a major change that could quite realistically gut the membership that participates in this forum?

Or are the naysayers just such that they should be discounted completely?

I guess that we need to talk this over. I am posting a poll with a few options that will get the ball rolling. If other options present themselves, I may either edit the poll accordingly, or start one anew if it seems warranted. Of course, depending on the overall results of this poll, it will very likely generate a new one to try to fine tune a direction we need to be headed in.

FWIW, I think the BOI is an invaluable service. Yes, I've done much more reading than posting, but I've also done much more researching than buying. I wouldn't be averse to requiring a government-issued photo ID to be faxed or scanned and emailed/uploaded before reading/participation was allowed on the BOI, and a micropayment for the service and storage seems reasonable as well. But I don't think that the BOI's services should only be limited to those who can afford to spend a lot of money on speculation that it might eventually save them some.

Any board that allows the public to post will have those very posts as a draw back. Think about the people you meet in a regular day. Ever notice that those with the least ability to say something are the ones that say the most? Human nature and law of percentages.

In a public forum (internet chat room, call in radio etc) you will always get the vocal fringes of an idea. But behind that there are many people (common sense people) that view and form an opinion on the discussion but do not vocalize. Again, this is the medium you have been dealt and can't really regulate away.

Looking at this from a business standpoint, allowing those sub-par people post allows many of us to dodge financial bullets. Many threads are perfect examples of it not being the original mistake that is the real issue but how the seller or buyer handled themselves.

Anyway my vote was for it to stay the way it is. Those that really feel that the BOI provides something need to keep that in mind when posting. One of the biggest things is the "dead horse" syndrome. If the opposing viewpoint can't understand you point after 2 posts of the same thing, what makes you think that repeating yourself across many threads a million times is going to change that.

My only real complaint is that people spew too many insults and rude comments around. This should be an attack free zone and it's not.

Well, I have no real problem with having a fee required at initial membership receipt, but I wonder about its effectiveness. I mean, if it is low enough not to cause mass migrations away from the BOI, then it is too low to cause scammers to shy away from it. However, make the fee high enough to weed out the quick buck scam artists, and a large percentage of those the BOI was designed to help will never bother to register at all.

As far as the concept of disallowing all of the "incognito" email providers, I can see both sides of that issue, too. I have AOL as my email account, but I could change my registration account, if I needed to do so. I presume that, once my account was established, I could still occassionally post while under my AOL account's screenname? Again, my only concern is how many people, who are not going to change their email accounts for a site they do not yet know, are we going to lose in the process?

Finally, I have thought about this whole "The BOI is a joke" phenomenon. It seems to me that those who say that are often times the recipient of bad attention from the BOI, or perhaps they have had a friend who has been exposed in some way here. For those types of critics, I have little regard, and their complaints fall on relatively deaf ears. Why should this site be changed merely because it has performed its intended function, and the weasels are now complaining about the lock on the hen house?

However, there are those who do not appreciate the "in your face" mentality that many of these threads tend to take over time, and they therefore see the BOI as being not worth their time. That's a shame, but I cannot see how you are going to modify that without giving in to the type of censorship that you have detested in other sites. The sad fact is that there are a lot of tactless people in the world, and they are represented fully here in our little corner of the business community. No amount of "freshening up" of this site is going to change that.

Rich, you have always said one thing about the BOI with which I fully agree. It is always a good thing to get out of the way and allow someone to make a fool out of themselves for all to see, if that is what they are intent on doing! The BOI is not a nice tea party wherein we all type in our sweet sayings, wearing elbow length white gloves, but it is not a "joke" either. People have been helped here; people have been exposed for what they truly are here; and people come here for the purpose of saving themselves (and others) the sad realities associated with dealing with some who have no problems trying to rip others off at every turn.

I say: Leave it like it is!

WebSlave said:

There are several camps here. One camp is composed of people who seem to come here simply for the entertainment value. Well, no harm in that, I guess, but that really isn't what I had in mind for the BOI. Another camp is composed of people who really do try to make this work the way it is supposed to. Although some will go a bit overboard with their enthusiasm, I believe the intentions are good, but the manner of delivery could certainly use some work. Then there are the lurkers. People who come here simply to read and learn, perhaps specifically seeking out information about someone they are intending to do business with, or perhaps just searching to see if their names have popped up here anywhere.

.

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I personaly use the BOI for everyon of these reasons. I dont realy understand where this is all comeing from, who thinks the BOI is a joke, There is nothing else close to this site any where. I meen i have done my share of dumb things here but to me this is defently a valuable site. I belive that the only flaw is that a suspended member can easly make a new name and to some extent hide who he is. I think you should find someone to do follow ups on all new members, and try to sniff out reincarnations of band members. I realy dont understand who exactly thinks of this site as a joke.

The fact that fauna is 100% free is what puts its miles above any oher herps site on the net. The rules need to be inforced to an extent where you get a warning then suspended pending fine. and i belive thats exactly hows its done. keep up the good work. and dont feel bad or angry , webslave this site is the best thing going for the herp world. dont change a thing . ask your self this. if people think the BOI is a joke then why would they use it? you need to come down with an iron fist on all these guys who like the break the rules. but its like grey hair , you pull one out and two take its place. dont focus on the clowns and jackasses but more towards the people who are out there ripping others off and blatently trying to pull scams.

I dont know tho, all I can really say is Thank you for this site, and whatever you decide to do good luck.

I'm afraid I don't much like any of the options put forth, so I'm just not sure where to place my check mark.

I had a few thoughts as I was reading it, and thought I'd share.

1. I guess making us use e-mail accounts that are ISP based could weed out some of the problems, and while I would like to feel outraged at that because I happen to use a yahoo.com account (and like it very much) and I feel I should not be excluded for my e-mail account~ the facts are that ~Yes, it does allow for abuse. So I guess I just shut up and start using a different e-mail account. Give me a bit of time to configure one and I'll register it.

2. A lot of what makes people think of the BOI as a "Joke" is the beating a dead horse thing. That, and the need people have to chime in when they have NOTHING to add. I've done it myself, and have been trying to police that behaviour in myself. I don't see any way to resolve this, but it might be lessoned if people are forced to send in a copy of their state-issed ID in order to post. You know, make it so anyone can read, but you must send in a copy of your ID to post. That would not stop the beating a dead horse (might slow it down if people know you know exactly who they are) but it should stop or decrease the posting just to post.

3. People who claim to think of the BOI as a "Joke" still come here to check things out and read what is up. So I think a lot of that is people making themselves feel big by bad mouthing this site even though they in fact use it too.

Thats all I had.
Sorry this site has turned into such a pain in the *** for you Rich.

No vote yet...

Rich,
I've not cast a vote yet, but let me explain.

First, I think that if the BOI is left as it is, in exactly the same condition and format, then it is ineffectual and everyone suffers in one form or another. Perhaps the suffering is only in reading the GARBAGE posted by idiots shouting into the wind or having to weed through the flames to get the meat of the posts.

To block all hotmail, yahoo, aol and other similar accounts is not totally workable either, in my opinion. Too many here access from an account like that from their place of work (or school), possibly during breaks, so can't avoid this problem. Personally, my ISP account is itegrated with Yahoo, so doesn't provide any problems that I can discern, but I can't vouch for what could happen if any blocking should begin.

Third, I don't totally disagree with the fee idea, but wonder how many would find this as counter to everything you've put forth to this point about keeping this site fee free. Not that I think it should be, but you've been the one straining against charging for site usage for as long as I can remember.

Perhaps the solution to the fee thing would be to require a check similar to what FedEx, Ebay and others use...which is that while the credit/debit card account is "charged" to verify it's existence, thus verifies the user, it is allowed to terminate and no actual fee is charged, thus no actual fee is paid. Don't know how easy this would be to set up, but a real pain for folks who get banned and then want to come back cloaked as a "new member."

Perhaps the best solution would be to just start taking out the axe start chopping the heck out of all the garbage. Start making use of the delete feature the owner/moderators have and eliminate the trash in the threads and eliminate (or rename) threads where topics are ignored. Utilize the Warning System more and take the approach of "TAKE NO PRISONERS!" While this may not seem popular to you, and some folks will initially be offended, as long as it is done fairly, regardless of who gets caught on the chopping block will increase respectability for you and the other moderators.

This solution won't be popular, and it may cause you and the other moderators to feel hated by the masses initially. However, it won't be long before your authority and decisions become respected and you'll see this whole mess work itself out. It's much like you'll remember in school. While some teachers may not have been your most popular at the time, those who were firm, yet fair, are probably the ones you look back upon with the most respect today, especially now that you're having to deal with similar problems. In many ways, this forum is like a classroom and, like it or not, you're the teacher/principal in charge.

Hope this helps in your thinking.

David Jobes

I agree with Darin. Yes, there are people who decide that the BOI is a joke, and that's their prerogative. However, the increase in membership and visits to the site are testament to its effectiveness.

With that being said, I fully support the point system for keeping down the number of personal attacks and vile behavior. No matter what the complaint, I believe that civilized behavior should be required in responding to it or dealing with it. I fully support language filters, and believe that people who verbally attack others should be reprimanded for it. Even if a person has an airtight case, if they go into a courtroom and start acting unacceptably, the judge is going to throw it out. The current point system allows you to throw people out after they've had sufficient time to show their true colors. Even if they manage to get back in.....it's worth it.

BOI

I think BOI is doing fine. Any online forum such as this is going to draw some bad personality traits. But this forum is doing just what it's suppose to be doing, allowing anyone to find information on sellers, especially internet sellers. As for the name calling and such, your actions against them are well enough. Most people go to a hockey game to see the game but most get really excited at the fights. Same here, some people get entertained at the silly fights going on in BOI. Any change will do more harm than good. EVERYONE should be very grateful for this forum.
Thanks

I say to leave it. I think the only people who would call this site a joke are people who have had negative comments posted about them. I can think of a half dozen right off the top of my head. It would be nice if we could differentiate between the "trollers" and people who have honest comments or opinions, but I think they are "brought to light" shortly after they begin posting hear anyway.

Speaking as a member of the "Lurker Camp" I cannot tell you how many times the Board of Inquiry has helped me make better decisions about my on-line livestock purchases.
As a consumer resource it is outstanding.
With all that said, I really cannot think of a way to improve how the BOI is currently run, personally I sort of like it the way it is.
As a user of this resource, I can decide for myself which information I find useful and which to disregard, and if nothing informative or useful is readily apperent, there always is the entertainment aspect of this board.
I cannot express thanks enough to Webslave and the moderators for making the BOI available and useful to Reptile Hobbyists everywhere.

Take Care,

I voted for a membership fee.
My suggestion would be to charge a token fee of perhaps $10.00 or so. I suggest this not because I think it will be a "cure all" to the problems the BOI has but it will surely make it easier for you to put up with the aggravation that some people cause you.
In addition I think you have been more than generous with the number of penalty points one receives before being suspended. I think that if the number were lowered people may take a little more time wording their responses to certain threads.
Bottom line is, If you are going to have to deal with the frustrations of running this site you should at least receive some sort of compensation from those who choose to cause you grief.

My personal view on this one can be summed up in three simple words... consider the source.

I would like to give my observations as a "lurker". I believe the integrity of the BOI is directly related to the integrity of it's members. Unfortunately, not all members even know the meaning of the word. But that is true of every business, I cannot remember the last time I was surrounded only by people with a high regard for integrity. I think this site allows those with less and more to show their "true colors". I think the fact that a good portion of the site users and the owner of the site strive for the truth in matters, serves to give the site the best sense of integrity possible in a place of basically free speech. I would definitely support a system like Ebay uses for verifying identity through credit card. While thats system is not perfect, I think it might offer some of the protection you are looking for. JMHO, Dave Beller

I feel like The BOI works,, and does what it is suppose to,,, it has helped me countless times in considering deals with people I have never and will never meet,, it is an invaluable source for the herp world,,, and the ones that scream it is a joke,, are the very ones who as someone said above are on the bad end of the spectrum,,, in my eyes,, it works,, leave it alone,, and instead of warning points my suggestion is for every warning point charge $5.00 that would do 2 things help to support the sight,, and at least the jokers, naysayers, and fools would think twice about a flaming post if they new it was gonna cost them,,, it also rewards the rest of us who use this board and stay inside the confines of the rules,,,, As I think you said in the past Rich,, let the idiots pay for the sight, and let them take themselves out of the game,,,! I thought that was a stroke of genius,,, One last thought,,, you know for all the good and bad, that everyone has to say about the Fauna Classifieds,, and The Boi,,, Most people in the Herp world "know" about it,, so you must be doing something right!
I mean people keep joining don't they,,? so you must be doing something right!!!!

I think the BOI is fine how it is, however, I chose to vote for the banning of anonymous email like hotmail.

This is not fool proof, but It should relieve some headaches for the administrators.

Tom Coonan

I think Ken said it all

CONSIDER THE SOURCE

JUST AN OPINION

Rich, I think it is difficult to increase the credibility of the BOI... simply because it works just fine as is. People saying it is a joke are doing so probably because of it's effectiveness in doing what it is intended for.

It's like any other public forum, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you that, but you get people that will abuse it. So, when someone says it's a joke, consider who is saying that and are they giving a real reason or just looking to have a jab at you and the BOI.

I don't know of any other site that works as well as the BOI in getting info on people you might want to deal with. If people want to use addresses like hotmail, aol etc, I think they should be able to. There are many decent members using them. If the questionable element want to use them, let them, give them their rope and they will end up hanging them selves!

Rich, in short, it's not up to you to improve the BOI's credibility... it's up to it's members!

I concur with what Darin said first, the people who proclaim the BOI is a joke are the ones who have been the subject of a negative thread in which they were deemed guilty and as often as not proved to be lying. It's just like the popular claim that their sales are way up after all the bad press, it's just BS.

Banning anonymous emails will likely not have a full effect. First, some people do not have an ISP email, I was in that boat for a few months. In addition, many ISPs like mine, which is BellSouth, have similar unlimited email programs. I am allowed 5 email accounts at any time, but I can create and delete them at will with a few mouse clicks. How many other conventional ISPs have a similar deal?

I do like the idea of an Ebay style credit card verification. It could be applied only to the BOI. Set that forum alone into a different user group so that users can still post to the classifieds and discussion forums for questions and answers, but if they want to access the BOI to post, they must be verified.
Since the BOI is the only forum with these issues, I would see no reason for denying access of all the other forums to the masses.
This process will however create a degree of extra work for you unless you delegate the responsibility, so even making it a $1 fee to post to the BOI wouldn't be bad.
I personally think a $5 or $10 fee is called for just to support the site, but those of us who are daily users are biased in this respect and I believe a fee of even that amount would likely discourage alot of people who just want to make a post about a deal they got burned on.

It's really either that or leave it the way it is, and the amount of problems you have had with banned members creating new accounts should be taken into consideration.
If you're only seeing a 5% rate of people trying to get around their ban, then would the trouble really be worth it? If however you have many who are banned trying repeatedly to circumvent the system, then some type of action may be in order. Verifying registrations in that case may actually be less work than trying to ferret out all the bogus registrations.