• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

40 Dead Snakes Found In Greensboro Home, Man Charged

And getting your power turned off is a BS excuse. You can get it turned back on the same day in most cases, at worst you'll need to wait till the next day. Plus you can pick up a kerosene heater that will keep a room nice and warm till the power is turned back on.

When it comes right down to it I won't even say he's wrong or evil because his snakes died. I'm more upset with how he handled the whole situation after the fact. It makes all of us look like trash.

I've had snakes die unexpectedly over the years and I can promise you one thing, I didn't leave them in a cage rotting for someone else to clean up.
 
herp_huggs said:
I've lost power before, even for a whole weekend... not one of my reptiles died, they slowed down a bit, but were thriving the moment their lamps kicked back on. Also, the whole roommate story sounds like grade A balogna to me. I'm sorry, but if I had thousands of dollars worth of snake (oh how I wish!) There would be an absolute zero chance of me leaving the responsibility of keeping the power on to my flaky roomie....
Click to expand...

Back up generators are pretty expensive, plus it's just human nature to procrastinate about getting the necessary stuff before the fun stuff. I wouldn't say it's implausable. Especially seeing as he was too lazy to even clean out the animals [regardless of how they passed], or anything else in the house after his time in the rental was over. It seems like his personality type for sure. I have yet to say that I'm totting that quote as accurate, I'm merely using it to point out that we don't know the situation, there are many possible ways the animals could have died that don't include cruely/neglect on the owner's part.

If you have more faith in an assumption you made based on the circumstances the ever-so-honest media presented than an anonymous, unverified comment in the comment box explaining what had happened [and imo, making more sense] then that's you're choice. I'm just taking it as a grain of salt and realizing that there are many possibilities to this story that don't involve animal cruelty.

How quickly do you think loss of power could kill 40 snakes? Sure, the weaker ones could've last too long... kinda leads me to question this man's abilities before the "outage". I might have read wrong, b
Click to expand...

It depends. BPs are pretty intolerant to cold, I recall seeing pictures of frozen pythons during the exceptionally cold winter in the everglades last year. If it was below freezing or slightly above, less than an hour. If it was high 40s to low 60s, much longer but likely within a few hours. 60+ and they probably would have been fine, and acted as you suggested earlier in your post.
 
AcidRainbow said:
I'm merely using it to point out that we don't know the situation, there are many possible ways the animals could have died that don't include cruely/neglect on the owner's part.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I just don't agree with you here. I don't see a plausible scenario where you can lose 40+ snakes all around the same time and it not be neglect of some sort (accidental or otherwise)?:shrug01:
 
scaledverts said:
Clearly you have never had or come close to having frostbite.

Look at these:

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

http://www.iacuc.pitt.edu/sop/Euth-AmphibiansFishReptiles.pdf

Mader, D.R. (1996). Euthanasia and necropsy. In: D.R. Mader (Editor), Reptile Medicine and Surgery, W.B. Saunders Company: Philadelphia, p. 277-281.

These are just a few of the sources of information I found in about 10 mins of searching!

Somehow, freezing as an acceptable method of euthanasia has persisted even though it is NOT humane. Probably because people hold on to the idea that "no one has shown me evidence it isn't humane."
Click to expand...

If you had read the link more thoroughly, you'd have found that it actually validated what I said.

"but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically
efficacious."

Which means there's also no evidence that there isn't, because that would validate that there was.
 
herp_huggs said:
Not sure what happened, but here's the rest of my post:
I might have read wrong, but my understanding was that he had just moved out less than a week before the landlord inspected (finding many dead snakes in different ranges of decomp, including some that were only bones)... if I'm correct in reading that, his whole "my roommate turned off the electricity and all my precious snakes died" story is in the toilet....
Click to expand...

Where was that stated?
 
scaledverts said:
I'm sorry I just don't agree with you here. I don't see a plausible scenario where you can lose 40+ snakes all around the same time and it not be neglect of some sort (accidental or otherwise)?:shrug01:
Click to expand...

An accident isn't necessarily neglect. The scenario I gave you was plausible.
 
It does seem kinda "cut and dry" so to speak, but I understand the twisted media idea... honestly though, without this guy's side of the story we'll never know, and I don't see him fessing up any time soon. I think we can all agree on a couple things:
This isn't gonna happen to our animals (I hope.... lol)
And this is a very tragic story. (with or without fault)
 
AcidRainbow said:
If you had read the link more thoroughly, you'd have found that it actually validated what I said.

"but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically
efficacious."

Which means there's also no evidence that there isn't, because that would validate that there was.
Click to expand...

WHAT?

:ack2::rofl::rofl:

That's actually how the scientific method works! They failed to support that cooling is effective. Pretty much standard operating procedure for science.:yesnod: They set out to see if cooling is an effective method for euthanasia and it isn't!

Those who WANT to use freezing as a method will always find ways to justify it. :shrug01:
 
It actually says this "Rahenkamp said she believes the animals either froze to death or starved. Animal control is also trying to determine the type of snakes found." in the description, again, validating the power outage idea. God knows balls wouldn't have died inside of a few months w/o food and the specimens we saw didn't look skinny.
 
AcidRainbow said:
An accident isn't necessarily neglect. The scenario I gave you was plausible.
Click to expand...

I'll use your logic here...And your assuming it was an accident. Like you said we don't know what happened that caused their death, so until you can show me evidence it was an accident then it wasn't an accident cause if it's not it isn't but if it is it still isn't cause until you can prove what didn't happen you can't really say what did.

I do know for a fact he left a bunch of dead animals for someone else to clean up which is wrong, disrespectful, and in most states falls under animal cruelty.
 
scaledverts said:
WHAT?

:ack2::rofl::rofl:

That's actually how the scientific method works! They failed to support that cooling is effective. Pretty much standard operating procedure for science.:yesnod: They set out to see if cooling is an effective method for euthanasia and it isn't!

Those who WANT to use freezing as a method will always find ways to justify it. :shrug01:
Click to expand...

What it is saying basically, is that there's a lack of evidence to prove it's effective, therefore there's no evidence that it isn't otherwise they'd have proven it was ineffective/inhumane. They're not recommending it because they can't prove it's humane. I'm not sure how it's possible to prove something's not effective but not prove that it's ineffective either....
 
garweft said:
I'll use your logic here...And your assuming it was an accident. Like you said we don't know what happened that caused their death, so until you can show me evidence it was an accident then it wasn't an accident cause if it's not it isn't but if it is it still isn't cause until you can prove what didn't happen you can't really say what did.

I do know for a fact he left a bunch of dead animals for someone else to clean up which is wrong, disrespectful, and in most states falls under animal cruelty.
Click to expand...

That's the idea. :thumbsup:

I'm just trying to assert that there isn't enough information to prove that he's guilty of animal cruelty and that there could be other plausible explanations that don't involve animal cruelty. But the way he left the dead animals definately was very strange and distasteful.
 
AcidRainbow said:
What it is saying basically, is that there's a lack of evidence to prove it's effective, therefore there's no evidence that it isn't otherwise they'd have proven it was ineffective/inhumane. They're not recommending it because they can't prove it's humane. I'm not sure how it's possible to prove something's not effective but not prove that it's ineffective either....
Click to expand...

Again, that's not how the scientific method works. You don't "PROVE" anything. You either support or do not support. They did not support cooling as an effective euthanasia method. Meaning it is not an effective euthanasia method. That's really all there is. Also you clearly did not look at the other sources or do you own research.
 
"The animals were all found in plastic crates, decomposed to the point there were only bones, said Tiffany Rahenkamp, Walton's former landlord. The rats were believed to be used as food for the snakes, Rahenkamp said."

Bones.... any body know the average decomp time on a ball?

"Walton had just moved out of the home on Thursday and left many other things behind, including TVs, clothing and even food. Rahenkamp said there was also a strong stench when she first walked in."

I understand this to mean that he had moved within a week or else they would have said "on the 13th" or "in November" or something specific instead of "on Thursday"
AcidRainbow said:
Where was that stated?
Click to expand...
 
herp_huggs said:
"The animals were all found in plastic crates, decomposed to the point there were only bones, said Tiffany Rahenkamp, Walton's former landlord. The rats were believed to be used as food for the snakes, Rahenkamp said."

Bones.... any body know the average decomp time on a ball?

"Walton had just moved out of the home on Thursday and left many other things behind, including TVs, clothing and even food. Rahenkamp said there was also a strong stench when she first walked in."

I understand this to mean that he had moved within a week or else they would have said "on the 13th" or "in November" or something specific instead of "on Thursday"
Click to expand...

Not sure why she said that, but was obviously exaggerating, you can see a picture of a bucket of the snakes in the video actually. They definately aren't that far gone.
 
scaledverts said:
Again, that's not how the scientific method works. You don't "PROVE" anything. You either support or do not support. They did not support cooling as an effective euthanasia method. Meaning it is not an effective euthanasia method. That's really all there is. Also you clearly did not look at the other sources or do you own research.
Click to expand...

Okay then. Show me the science, not just a sheet saying it's uneffective. Sorry if it's in the AVMA link, I haven't gotten the chance to go through all of that yet.
 
AcidRainbow said:
Not sure why she said that, but was obviously exaggerating, you can see a picture of a bucket of the snakes in the video actually. They definately aren't that far gone.
Click to expand...

I only saw one pic of snakes so maybe the rest were too "graphic"...? Of course, I'm speculating, but I seriously doubt they only took one picture... she also mentioned that they "appeared to have been dead a while" which to me seems like more than a couple days. (now obviously, this woman is no snake expert... "no garden snakes"... lol)
 
Go through the AVMA link, you will not find freezing as an approved method of euthanasia. Also Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery can be found online.

Mader, D.R. (1996). Euthanasia and necropsy. In: D.R. Mader (Editor), Reptile Medicine and Surgery, W.B. Saunders Company: Philadelphia, p. 277-281.

There are also other refs that you can find if you look for a bit. Some of the refs in Mader (1996) are a good start.

I would start a new thread in another forum if you would like to keep talking about euthanasia.
 
Back
Top