Bad Guy 4C Reptiles n cages

[Lucille]

Has anyone been able to find an owner name or website associated with
4C-Reptiles-N-Cages?

 

[hermansmama]

I tried the website that was listed on their business page, but it wasn't up any longer. Their email is just 4creptiles, and their facebook page doesn't have any personal info on it (looks like it's not even updated, they have 30 some likes, and that's about it).

 

[bcr229]

The Show promoter is all about the Mighty $.

It's incredibly shortsighted and bad for long-term business prospects to keep one craptastic vendor and risk losing several who would pass on the show rather than risk having their healthy, high-$$$ animals close to a vendor like that one.

 

[PsycHD_Student]

I sent a message to the owner informing him of the current thread.

Many times the BOI is very grey, and not so easily clear cut; however, in this circumstance, I cannot see how this individual can have a good explanation for the condition of his animals. They are extremely sick, likely need veterinary care, and should not have been up for sale under any circumstances.

 

[hermansmama]

I sent a message to the owner informing him of the current thread.

Many times the BOI is very grey, and not so easily clear cut; however, in this circumstance, I cannot see how this individual can have a good explanation for the condition of his animals. They are extremely sick, likely need veterinary care, and should not have been up for sale under any circumstances.

Thank you for sending them the link, I included that in the email I sent them several days ago, and have not heard back from that at this point.

 

[Invictus57]

I did NOT say anything to the vendor at the show because I was upset about the situation and didn't want to cause a scene. My goal isn't to embarrass him or tick him off so that he won't listen to my concerns, but to bring up my concerns in a calm, collected manner, which is why I emailed him instead.

Idk how you stood across from that table and had the foresight to take pics and all and not reach across and strangle them. I give you credit on your phenominal self control because I know I would not have been able to. As soon as i saw those animals, especially that poor crestie, the mum in me wouldve kicked in and it all wouldve come out. I would have no problem making a scene so everyone would know how disgusting this person is. That being said, I agree that in doing so they would not listen to my concerns but seeing the condition of those animals, I don't think they would care one way or another. We all agree this goes way beyond poor husbandry. Somehow I doubt you will get a response from them.

The shows owners response surprised and sickened me. I agree with Rich that obviously the owner only cares about the money but I also agree that you would think he would be smart enough to realize this could hurt his business in the future. That he would want to weed out the bad apples. I certainly wouldn't want my table in the same room with animals that looked like that and I would pass on vending at a show where venders like that are allowed in. I am sure I am not alone in feeling that way.

Those pictures were horrifying- can you imagine what he has at home? I shudder to think. Please keep us posted on your progress, if any. Thank you for bringing this to the BOI.

 

[Tobyyy_Twiztid]

These are definitely not wild caught animals lol. It's a all md show and none of these animals are native to Maryland...having said that I attended this show as well and personally witnessed the poor condition of these animals. It's absolutely disgusting....

 

[Invictus57]

http://www.hamburgreptileshow.com/vendor_list.html

I don't know if this helps, but this is the vendor list from the June hamburg show. 4c reptiles owner is listed as Frank Carbone

 

[Bill T]

Travis I don't think we are all on the same page with the wild caught. It doesn't mean from Maryland.

 

[Crestedlovely]

These are definitely not wild caught animals lol. It's a all md show and none of these animals are native to Maryland...having said that I attended this show as well and personally witnessed the poor condition of these animals. It's absolutely disgusting....

It is called the All Maryland Reptile show, but that title doesn't mean any of the animals are native to MD.

However, it's still a toss up if they are WC or not. The crested certainly wasn't. The others might have been, but that's not why their condition is poor. Have you all ever seen WC animals in their habitats? They don't look like this. Poor care after capture can cause it, but so can poor care of captive bred animals. WC or not, it's obvious whatever they are doing with them isn't right. Being WC is NEVER an excuse for an animal to look like this.

*Disclaimer - I am not saying anyone said that being WC is an excuse, but some people seem to have some misinformation about what WC really means. A properly cared for WC animal will never get to this stage. It's neglect no matter how you slice it.

 

[LauraB]

To those of you who were at the show, how old was the vendor/vendors of 4C? There is a reason I ask. Male, I presume.

 

[smy_749]

The Bosc monitors and sandfish are absolutely wild caughts. Unless you know the secret location where we can get CBB ?

 

[hermansmama]

To those of you who were at the show, how old was the vendor/vendors of 4C? There is a reason I ask. Male, I presume.

I believe it is a father/son pair that runs it. I only saw a younger man at the table, late high school/college aged probably.

 

[LauraB]

Thanks for your response, Megan. I just wanted a little clarification before I posted what I found.

Son is probably Adam Carbone. Here are shots of his FB. Granted, the photos are from 2012 & early 2013, but his posts/photos show many animals for sale as well as shots from various expos he was at & vended.

The phone number that appeared on the 4C logo (609-965-9612) returned a business called FMA Enterprises in Egg Harbor City, NJ ... the principal of which was/is Mary Carbone.

Look at the size of those RES ... 'nuff said. Anyone who has the gall to take abused, neglected animals of that caliber to a freakin show should be treated just like the animals they/he neglected.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

If not mistaken isnt there a Nationwide law on the shell size of native aquatic turtles. Here in Michigan i believe anything under 4" can not be sold to anyone unless for educational purposes. Theres more on that list that have the federal regulations.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

And from my Digging its now illegal Sell RES and almost most turtles in NJ and a permit is required to keep them as pets excluding eastern painted turtles and snappers.

Which means him buying out of state lots of Turtles that are not legal to sell within NJ is a big No no

 

[LauraB]

Exactly, Rich! And here's more ...
Sorry they're fuzzy, it ain't your eyes, I had to resize. LOL, poetry.

Now just need poetic justice for those abused animals.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Hes breaking the law... Seems like a legit vendor ehh!

Its legal to buy outside of NJ so long you have permit, and I highly doubt he has permit for what hes doing to be legal!!!! Hell not a single store in NJ sells turtles anymore...

 

[LauraB]

Hes breaking the law... Seems like a legit vendor ehh!

That's right, Rich. That's precisely why he sold on FB and currently has no other credible internet venue or sales history.

More and more FB just seems to be another Craig's List for those who lack reputable, credible, honest history in the hobby/industry (IMO).

 

[kyryah]

I'm curious how the hell those baby turtles are basking? Not to mention the absolute nightmare of keeping those softshells in with the RES and other pond turtle types... I'm appalled. That is blatant mistreatment. Not to mention the horrible message it is sending to buyers....