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A GREAT REASON TO ALWAYS QUARANTINE

A couple of the bigger places might be able to do some of the most routine stuff in house; but this will have to get sent out. If you use Green, or Black, just give them a heads up before the appointment. Unfortunately, I believe serial testing is a requirement; so peace of mind will take a while.

What are your plans for the caging & equipment in your quarantine area?

I'm glad you are starting to think of the potential...it's the smart thing to do. What of your breeding plans?
 
hhmoore said:
A couple of the bigger places might be able to do some of the most routine stuff in house; but this will have to get sent out. If you use Green, or Black, just give them a heads up before the appointment. Unfortunately, I believe serial testing is a requirement; so peace of mind will take a while.

What are your plans for the caging & equipment in your quarantine area?

I'm glad you are starting to think of the potential...it's the smart thing to do. What of your breeding plans?
Click to expand...

Already tossed my cage,heat panel and the heat tape. I tossed the cheap thermostat also. I read not to re-use. It was just a sweaterbox one.
I do plan on using Dr Green. I used him a couple times so far. Not sure if he is the best choice,but he is the only one i know of. Which of the two would you recommend Harold?

Breeding. Mostly done. Thats the my big worry right now. Another reason i want to get a few adults checked out. As is now,i wont be selling babies till i make sure i wont be passing to others. If this was ibd. I am treating it as and have no choice now. Frooze the male sunglow because i didnt know better.

I have another room i will use as my new quarantine room.
Always up for suggestions Harold. I dont want to loose them.
 
as far as I know, there is no test that can be done on a live boa. It cannot be tested via blood. You'll have to sacrifice some so they can be necropsied and the tissues sent for pathology testing to a lab. :/

edit to add - Dr Jacobson's page on IBD, he is, as far as I know, the leading source on this
http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/sample-r...itology-serology/zoo-med-infections/boid-ibd/
states there about blood testing "Blood films should first be examined before tissue biopsies are obtained and submitted for histopathology. However, we do not know how often inclusions are seen in a peripheral blood film of a snake with IBD. It must be remembered that absence of inclusions in a blood film does not necessarily mean the snake is free of IBD."

When I had Cinnamon put down and tested, it was $545. I'm *still* waiting for a copy of the test results from my vet, I pretty much gave up asking them about it but this reminds me I need to bug them yet again. (everytime I do, they say they need to get another copy from UC Davis and it will be sent to me, never shows up).

this was the thread I had posted about her: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239951
 
AbsoluteApril said:
as far as I know, there is no test that can be done on a live boa. It cannot be tested via blood. You'll have to sacrifice some so they can be necropsied and the tissues sent for pathology testing to a lab. :/

edit to add - Dr Jacobson's page on IBD, he is, as far as I know, the leading source on this
http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/sample-r...itology-serology/zoo-med-infections/boid-ibd/
states there about blood testing "Blood films should first be examined before tissue biopsies are obtained and submitted for histopathology. However, we do not know how often inclusions are seen in a peripheral blood film of a snake with IBD. It must be remembered that absence of inclusions in a blood film do

es not necessarily mean the snake is free of IBD."

When I had Cinnamon put down and tested, it was $545. I'm *still* waiting for a copy of the test results from my vet, I pretty much gave up asking them about it but this reminds me I need to bug them yet again. (everytime I do, they say they need to get another copy from UC Davis and it will be sent to me, never shows up).

this was the thread I had posted about her: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239951
Click to expand...

Thats a bummer. How to choose two boas that i raised from babies. Most all my adults were my first boas. And none are mean at all. My two mean ones are gone. Choosing two will be hard to do!! But if needed i guess i have to do it. Will two be enough? I have 30.
How to choose?? And should i even though its two floors up from my boa room? I think i know the answer already.

If doing it this way,will they know for sure? Two boas will be a min. Of $1100. Ill call and find out prices.

I like the end statement in your ad April. Being an open book with your reptiles. I feel the same way and have been since day one.
 
Maybe it would be better to have several tested with blood sampkes as mentioned in his ad. If i use 4-5 female adults and get them tested twice and 90 days apart i should get a good idea if any are infected. Yes? I hate the thought of killing two live boas with no signs of ibd and two floors apart. This is killing me not knowing what to do.
 
Personally, Rich, I would lock down my collection; at least for the time being. Nothing in...NOTHING out. I'm certainly not an expert on IBD, or its progression; but I suspect it may be too early to get valid results from any testing...even necropsy & tissue samples. Since you've already got a relationship with Dr Green - sort out your concerns, write down some questions, and have a conversation. Understand that he may need to reach out for the answers & best approach.
 
allreptiles1966 said:
Thats a bummer. How to choose two boas that i raised from babies. Most all my adults were my first boas. And none are mean at all. My two mean ones are gone. Choosing two will be hard to do!! But if needed i guess i have to do it. Will two be enough? I have 30.
How to choose?? And should i even though its two floors up from my boa room? I think i know the answer already.

If doing it this way,will they know for sure? Two boas will be a min. Of $1100. Ill call and find out prices.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I cannot answer those questions. My best advise is to contact Dr Jacobson directly and your vets to hear their recommendations. I do wish you the best!
 
AbsoluteApril said:
I'm sorry I cannot answer those questions. My best advise is to contact Dr Jacobson directly and your vets to hear their recommendations. I do wish you the best!
Click to expand...

Thanks April. Waiting on Dr Green to call back
and discuss what i should do.

Took down my for sale babies two weeks ago. About. Not buying either till all this gets taken care of. I will keep this updated as it unravels.
 
hhmoore said:
Personally, Rich, I would lock down my collection; at least for the time being. Nothing in...NOTHING out. I'm certainly not an expert on IBD, or its progression; but I suspect it may be too early to get valid results from any testing...even necropsy & tissue samples. Since you've already got a relationship with Dr Green - sort out your concerns, write down some questions, and have a conversation. Understand that he may need to reach out for the answers & best approach.
Click to expand...

Thanks Harold. Waiting for his call.
 
Damn, just read the updates, I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this.

Since there isn't a definite diagnosis of IBD on the boa that died, the one housed in close proximity to him by the prior owner is not showing symptoms, and so many other causes of death can mimic IBD, I wouldn't even consider putting the others down just to get them tested. Here is what I'd do:

- The collection gets locked down for 24 months, nothing in or out, and you avoid reptile expos, shows, etc. While the disease can lie dormant for years in some individuals, if you have 30 animals then if it's been transmitted to your collection, one of them should show symptoms within 2 years.

- Blood tests every 90 days as you suggested, especially all the females that were bred this year. Breeding puts a lot of stress on their systems so if they're infected IMO they'd be the most likely to throw a positive test.

- No breeding next year, but that's due to lack of space to house the offspring from this season's pairings plus next season's pairings if nothing is going out the door. If you have the space available, the blood tests are all clean, and none of your boas are showing symptoms, then you might make a different call on that.

- Pray.
 
Live arthroscopic samples can be taken of various organs, but requires a facility with higher end equipment, and a very reptile knowledgeable vet. It's not cheap either. That's the route I took after the Luis fiasco. It ran me in the neighborhood of $390 for Aurora's first round. And choose a vet that uses Northwest Zoo Path for their pathology work, or will use them at your request. There is a reason the Zoo's across America use them.

I would do like Harald suggested too. Just lock it down for now. Giving it a while will allow you to choose a couple animals if you go through with it, and start putting resources away to help out with the costs.

Fingers crossed for you.
 
Vet opinion

So after talking to our local herp vet,we are going to wait 2-3 months and will do the extensive blood testing on multipule boas and at 90 day increments. Dr Green is going to get in touch with the University of Flordia and their specialist thats working on the ibd problems. We will go from there and if need be,i will have to sacrafice a couple adults. With no ease either.

I will keep you guys informed as i go through this .

Thanks guys. Ladies.
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
Live arthroscopic samples can be taken of various organs, but requires a facility with higher end equipment, and a very reptile knowledgeable vet. It's not cheap either. That's the route I took after the Luis fiasco. It ran me in the neighborhood of $390 for Aurora's first round. And choose a vet that uses Northwest Zoo Path for their pathology work, or will use them at your request. There is a reason the Zoo's across America use them.

I would do like Harald suggested too. Just lock it down for now. Giving it a while will allow you to choose a couple animals if you go through with it, and start putting resources away to help out with the costs.

Fingers crossed for you.
Click to expand...

Toes too please.:) Thanks Rich

I will do whatever is needed to make sure my collection is healthy. And,if they are not and cannot be fixed,i will do whats needed. I would hate to pass this to anyone.
 
I would agree with Rich: test via blood. Nothing will ever be 100%, but for common boas this test is supposed to be pretty good. As for the humidifier, I think you're safe...I do not recall any evidence IBD (if the deceased animal even had that) is airborne.
 
I agree as well with NZP. I've had a lesser lab misdiagnose (read: false positive) before, and for this type of test would only use the best.
 
Just to protect yourself legally, Rich, I'd advise you to test a few now. If later tests do come back as IBD, the other person will claim you "had it to start with." The only way to counter that is to show a baseline negative. Fingers crossed for you.
 
AbsoluteApril said:
as far as I know, there is no test that can be done on a live boa. It cannot be tested via blood. You'll have to sacrifice some so they can be necropsied and the tissues sent for pathology testing to a lab. :/

edit to add - Dr Jacobson's page on IBD, he is, as far as I know, the leading source on this
http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/sample-r...itology-serology/zoo-med-infections/boid-ibd/
states there about blood testing "Blood films should first be examined before tissue biopsies are obtained and submitted for histopathology. However, we do not know how often inclusions are seen in a peripheral blood film of a snake with IBD. It must be remembered that absence of inclusions in a blood film does not necessarily mean the snake is free of IBD."

When I had Cinnamon put down and tested, it was $545. I'm *still* waiting for a copy of the test results from my vet, I pretty much gave up asking them about it but this reminds me I need to bug them yet again. (everytime I do, they say they need to get another copy from UC Davis and it will be sent to me, never shows up).

this was the thread I had posted about her: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239951
Click to expand...

Not true you can do punch biopsies of the liver, pancreas, and blood testing has been proven to work as well, just not as accurate. the punch biopsies take small tissue samples that can easily be regenerated and can be done with a little anesthetic, killing the animal is not necessary anymore.
 
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