A new classifieds system on this site

[Lucille]

I am not a vendor but I tested by posting an item for sale. It was quick and easy: I am, technologically speaking, very blonde and don't have a clue when it comes to complicated computer stuff; I would say that if it was easy for me, it will be easy for everyone.
I understand you do not have lots of time to play with the system, Rich. I can't even think of volunteering to help with the programming stuff, as a matter of fact I am considering paying a friend for computer lessons; but I am an excellent writer and if you would need help laying out categories, descriptions, etc. I would be glad to do my part to help.

 

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

I'm sorry this is a little late, Rich.

If you are still looking for input...

Although I like the general look of it, I think the first/index page is HELL-A busy! I'm not sure that you'd need Recent Comments, Most Popular Ads, or Most Viewed.

Recent Comments - I don't think it would serve any purpose, really. I'm not sure it would drive me anywhere, one way or another, seeing latest comments others have to say on any of the ads. "I'm interested, could you please send pictures to [email protected]" et al would just be up there for no reason. Much like (I know it's only a joke post) "Are they venomous?" I'm not sure I would care much what others had to say - if I'm shopping I'm looking for snakes, not what others want to know on any of the ads.

Most Popular Ads - I don't think I'd even glance at this. I have no need to see which ad is the most popular. I'm guessing it's going to be the Albino Ball Python for $50 shipped. Most Popular is probably going to be scaled on how many replies to the ad there is. Having the most replies doesn't mean it's the most popular - it probably will just mean everyone is asking questions on a certain item/animal because the original ad said "Adult Kingsnake - $155 shipped" with no picture.

Most Viewed - I don't know about anyone else, but I don't really care which ads have had the most views. It's not one of the columns I look at first (or at all) when looking at the ads. I might be interested to know how many people have looked at my ads (so I know if anyone is even interested) but that's listed on the individual ad. Which one is viewed the most? I don't care - I'm shopping for a female columbian boa, a snow corn, and a blue siamese cat.

On a positive note, though, I like the highlighting! And the layout of all the ads makes it easier to shop. Pictures, descriptions and price are all there to see without having to click on individual ads.

Anyone agree/disagree on the three above points?

 

[WebSlave]

After some reflection last night, I decided to go ahead and use separate For Sale and Wanteds categories. The ability to create and modify style templates may become useful in the future for some ideas I have, and combining both functions in a single category could hinder this.

Since I don't believe the "Wanteds" will be used as heavily as the "For Sale" sections, I have simplified the Wanteds to where there is only a single section for "Snakes", "Lizards", etc. This can be expanded in the future as needed, but for now I think it will suffice. I can ad subcategories as needed when I see that certain types of animals are more heavily requested then others.

I am about to enable a function that will allow users to be able to highlight, bold, and italicize their ads. Much like I now do in the classifieds sections here, I will be charging $1 for each of those functions to people who optionally desire to use them. This all takes place automatically through PayPal when you are completing posting your ad. My original thought had been to charge 33 cents for each of those functions to make the total for all three for $1. But PayPal's policy of what they charge me for each charge through them puts a crimp in that idea. Since I have a business account, for each charge made to them I get charged 1.9% + $0.30 USD to 2.9% + $0.30 USD. So if someone were to ONLY select the highlighting option that I would be charging 33 cents for, I would make a grand total of 2 cents after the fee was extracted. As it is, even for the $1 fee I charge, they extract 33 cents each time. So no, sorry, I had to do it the way I did to make this worthwhile messing with.

I opened up a personal account, which would allow those small charges to be processed without any fee penalty, but there was a real snag in that as well. If anyone tries to process a charge through their PayPal account and does not have a PayPal balance to cover it, then they use the account's credit card for payment. That triggers a requirement that the payment only go to a verified/business account. So the payment is held in limbo until I convert my personal account to a business account. Which would then kick those fees into being applied...

I tried talking to PayPal about this problem, but didn't get very far with it. I think the people answering queries go through a list of possible scenarios and press a button for the closest relevant response they can make. Oh well. I just don't have the time to arm wrestle with them....

I haven't opened this up to the general public yet, but hope to do so soon.

Thanks.

 

[WebSlave]

I'm sorry this is a little late, Rich.

If you are still looking for input...

Although I like the general look of it, I think the first/index page is HELL-A busy! I'm not sure that you'd need Recent Comments, Most Popular Ads, or Most Viewed.

Recent Comments - I don't think it would serve any purpose, really. I'm not sure it would drive me anywhere, one way or another, seeing latest comments others have to say on any of the ads. "I'm interested, could you please send pictures to [email protected]" et al would just be up there for no reason. Much like (I know it's only a joke post) "Are they venomous?" I'm not sure I would care much what others had to say - if I'm shopping I'm looking for snakes, not what others want to know on any of the ads.

Most Popular Ads - I don't think I'd even glance at this. I have no need to see which ad is the most popular. I'm guessing it's going to be the Albino Ball Python for $50 shipped. Most Popular is probably going to be scaled on how many replies to the ad there is. Having the most replies doesn't mean it's the most popular - it probably will just mean everyone is asking questions on a certain item/animal because the original ad said "Adult Kingsnake - $155 shipped" with no picture.

Most Viewed - I don't know about anyone else, but I don't really care which ads have had the most views. It's not one of the columns I look at first (or at all) when looking at the ads. I might be interested to know how many people have looked at my ads (so I know if anyone is even interested) but that's listed on the individual ad. Which one is viewed the most? I don't care - I'm shopping for a female columbian boa, a snow corn, and a blue siamese cat.

On a positive note, though, I like the highlighting! And the layout of all the ads makes it easier to shop. Pictures, descriptions and price are all there to see without having to click on individual ads.

Anyone agree/disagree on the three above points?

No, it's not too late at all. This is still in development at this time...

To answer your points from my perspective:

Recent Comments - In effect I agree with you on this one. Whenever I am working on a new program package, I have found it instructive and useful to enable ALL options initially so I can see what they provide for everyone involved. As you pointed out, it really serves no useful purpose having these comments displayed on the main screen at all, and I will very probably remove this option next time I go in to work on the system.

Most Popular Ads - Well, bear in mind who are going to be important players for this new system to work: The SELLERS. Looking from their perspective, they would probably consider it real good advertising for them if they were selling items that were proving to be extremely popular with the viewers and showed up on the front page like this. Let's face it, if a lot of people are looking at particular ads, then there must be a reason for it. Go to any reptile show and observe a curious phenomenon: crowds draw crowds. If there is a table with a lot of people standing in front of it, many people will wonder over to see what it is over there that has attracted so many people. I suspect that posted ads in a classifieds section like this may work the same way. Maybe, maybe not, but initially I will let this option remain to see how it works out.

Most Viewed - Well actually the same argument above for "Most Popular" applies to this one as well. But now that you pointed it out, I am left wondering what exactly is the difference between the two and whether I really need to have both of them displayed. Perhaps I could simply choose between the two and only have one of them, which would simplify the main screen somewhat. I'll have to take a look and try to determine which of the two appears to be the most useful to actually leave on display.

Thanks for the help. And even if you see something months from now that you just didn't notice before, it's never too late to bring it to my attention. May not be anything I can do something about, but I would still like to hear about it.

 

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

I tried talking to PayPal about this problem, but didn't get very far with it.

Buaahaha! You're funnny. I think you'd have more chance of talking one of your cornsnakes into courting a garter than having PayPal help you all too much. The few times I've called for any reason they can never do anything. You're right, I think they just go through a series of computer clicks much like you find for Windows Troubleshooting. "Ah..so your account is frozen up?..*clicks*....ok, have you tried re-entering your password? Has this answer helped you at all? Yes or No? Oh. *clicks* Have you tried clicking on Reload as opposed to the Back button? Has this answer helped you at all? Yes or No? Oh. *clicks* I have entered your problem into the system. Thank you for reporting this problem and thank you for using PayPal."

As far as the $1 goes....If they are willing to pay $.33 they are most likely willing to pay the entire $1. I don't think that $.66 is a deal breaker.

I'll look forward to seeing the new system in place. Does this, hopefully, mean that all the old ads up there currently will be wiped clean?

Good luck with it all.

 

[WebSlave]

I'll look forward to seeing the new system in place. Does this, hopefully, mean that all the old ads up there currently will be wiped clean?

Good luck with it all.

No, not anytime soon. Remember what I said about the "crowd draws a crowd" syndrome?

Also, I would consider the new system as a trial basis. If most people don't like it, I am not going to force anyone to use it. I would have to have two parallel systems in place, but I can see where that might happen. In such a case, I'm not sure how I would deal with it.....

 

[Lucille]

The commercial links you are selling, could they tie into the new classifieds? Perhaps if you play it up with a 'grand opening' type of announcement you could sell a bunch of them when you unveil the new classified?

 

[WebSlave]

No. Good idea, but the classifieds section is a distinct program that only interfaces with this site via limited means. It is not really an extension of vBulletin at all, just an attachment. That's why there has to be a duplicate traders or feedback system and the classifieds control panel here will not work for the ads posted on the new classifieds section.

That is one of the problems with upgrades and enhancements. Once you implement them, you usually find that they create a messy situation which you could have dealt with much more effectively if you had them at your disposal at the beginning. But there are few realistic options when dealing with this problem. I could either just let the site remain as it is and stagnate (but then again people would become more familiar and more at home with something they have been using for years), or I could start all over from scratch and wipe everything to a clean slate, or I can piece meal it together like I am doing and just try to work things out as best I can. Of the three options, I guess you can see why I have to do it the way I am.

 

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

That's why there has to be a duplicate traders or feedback system

I can see this as being a HUGE setback, actually. I'm not sure on all the details and the goings on - my mind is not 'right' and I can't be analyzing everything posted on this thread to get an accurate picture but if it will be adding a new place for trader ratings I think it will send some people over the edge. Starting from scratch, for most people, will be a huge pain in the butt as everyone just goes back down to zero which is something, I'm sure, people will want to avoid.

If, indeed, this would be the case I would turn off the feature if you can and leave it to the feedback and trader ratings members have on FC.com as they stand right now.

I doubt there is, but if you can manually start members out at a certain number (the same as on their FC.com rating) I would volunteer to take the day or two it would take to go through all the members and manually enter their current ratings to start them off right in the new system. Huge pain in the butt though and if it could be avoided I think it would be best.

and the classifieds control panel here will not work for the ads posted on the new classifieds section.

It won't, but this new one has something similar. It will just be a new look but everyone will essentially be able to do the same thing they are currently doing on FC.com's classifieds section.

I'll stop adding input, I'm sure you have more than enough on your plate as it is. You've done well with the site so far and I'm sure you won't fail it in whatever direction you want to head it into next.

*closes his box of chocolates* ....and that's all I have to say about that..

 

[WebSlave]

Well, I think I set the limits of what course of action I have in a previous reply. I have to do what I can with what I have at hand. Would be nice if I had a large programming staff and deep pockets to make a fully integrated 100 percent perfect (at least to some people) site. But of course, even if I had those benefits, in 6 months it would be obsolete when something new came along that would be neat to implement within the system.

So how long would this site remain interesting to people if I just left it alone and made no changes to it? If that is what people want, then heck, that is OK by me. I get tired of spending money on this thing anyway, so just give me a good excuse and I'll go with the flow......

Seriously there are no perfect answers. Even something as simple as the feedback system will be some sort of compromise to remedy. Simplest thing for me to do would be to just comment out the link within the new classifieds system so that the new feedback system is completely unaccessible. But then no one within the new classifieds would have easy access to that sort of feedback when looking at an ad from someone. So maybe I should go with the new feedback system? But then that is not accessible outside of the classifieds system. Is that a good thing? Probably not. Suppose someone is posting elsewhere and you wanted to look up whatever feedback might exist about them. That means you have to jump into the classifieds system and find an ad they posted. Well suppose there are no active ones for this person at the time? Tough luck. The member listing in the forums won't help you a bit.

Can I tie the old feedback system into the new classifieds? Beats me. How much of that kind of effort do I want to continue throwing into this place? Can I hire someone to do it? Sure, probably. But there is that $$ thing again..

Like I said, no easy answers.....

 

[WebSlave]

Steven, I hope that last reply of mine doesn't come across too harshly. I was thinking about it while I was feeding snakes after posting it. It wasn't meant that way.

Both of these new toys (Photo Gallery and new classifieds) were bought and installed to try to accomodate requests from users over the last few months for the features they provide. But it is kind of frustrating that trying to accomodate requests is much like trying to pop a balloon by squeezing it to death. All it does is make another part of it bigger without really changing anything permanently. Honestly I do try to do what I can to accomodate requests, although it may not be right away, and it may be as time and funds allow.

When I do get feedback, I have this character flaw within me that I will try to explain the "why" of what I do, sometimes in more detail then anyone really cares to know about. Sometimes in an effort to post as much as I can as quickly as I can, will come out sounding more abrasive then I had intended it to be. But no, I am not one to eat the messenger when you bring me bad news......

Time to hit the hay. Getting up early and heading down to have Christmas with some friends in a few hours.....

 

[WebSlave]

I ran this problem about the feedback system past my programmer, and he things he can just eliminate the feedback system of the new classifieds program and tie directly into the existing Traders Ratings system that now exists on FC. We'll just see what he comes up with, I guess.

 

[WebSlave]

OK, the independent rating system within the new classifieds program has been removed and the existing one on this message board incorporated into the design. So, the Trader Ratings system will work across both systems.

Wring this thing out for me, please, and let me know if you see anything else that looks like it needs to be polished up before public release.

Thanks.

 

[progeckos]

Well Rich I’ve been playing around and everything seems to be working fine. The biggest I problem I still see is the preview area. I was posting ads with pictures, bold and larger fonts, along with colors and they all showed up in the preview section. The idea for paying for the highlighted, bold, and italic ads would be thrown out the window. I have a link below to the Caging, Supplies & Services For Sale section where it will show you what I’m talking about.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/pp_classifieds/showcat.php?cat=7&page=

Another thing that would be nice to have is a preview button. I don’t know about everyone else but I like knowing the HTML or VB code is all correct before posting an ad. I don’t know if it’s possible but that would be great…

 

[WebSlave]

Well Cody, thanks for that demonstration of why the developers disabled HTML within the description field of those ads. I may have to seriously rethink this issue. If something CAN be abused, it WILL be abused, sure as shootin. I think this is going to be one of those "between a rock and a hard place" kind of issues I am going to have to make a decision on.

One alternative may be to scrap the short section of description text altogether in the classifieds listings. That would certainly sidestep this issue.

I'll have to put on my "Tom Terrific" (showing my age again) thinking cap for this one.

 

[WebSlave]

My first attempt was to use the code that originally inhibited the HTML formatting from showing up in the ad listings. This worked OK, but it showed the raw HTML formatting codes within the short description shown in those ad listings. Looked ugly to me, but liveable, if necessary. But instead of stopping there, I just removed the description code entirely from the listings. Now you have to click on the ad itself in order to see the actual text within the description field. The actual classified ad listings within the category selections only show the topic line of the classified, and who posted it.

Of my choices available, this seems to produce the best result, in my opinion.

Please check it out further and see if you can find anymore wrinkles that need to be ironed out.

Thanks for your help with this.....

 

[Sasheena]

I like it with the description left only for those who click the link. To me it makes it look a lot better, and that's great if it is the easiest/quickest fix for you too.

 

[progeckos]

That looks a lot better Rich, I like it. Another thing, how are the ads re-listed? Is there a classified CP similar to the one we have now? Other than that everything seems to be working fine.

 

[WebSlave]

You can view all of your ads via a link that says "My ads". From there you have the option to edit the ad, mark it as "sold", and a few other things. But I have no idea about renewing it. Maybe a notice will be sent to you, but I really don't know. There might be something about that somewhere, but this didn't really come with a manual. Not that I read those darn things anyway......

 

[progeckos]

But I have no idea about renewing it. Maybe a notice will be sent to you, but I really don't know.

Sounds good Rich. I think the email notification would be the best. I really like it with the forums.