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A new problem shipping/receiving and everything else

E

evansnakes

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The state of Ohio is now requiring anyone shipping animals into Ohio or anyone in Ohio getting animals shipped to them, to notify the government prior to shipping with carrier, contents, recipient, arrival and more info. If you live in Ohio, this is the last straw. They are killing the pet trade and hobby of pets of any kind in Ohio. They have included crickets, fish, reptiles and all other animals in this restriction! This is a huge problem! The entire pet trade including PIJAC will now be focused on Ohio and the battle lines are now drawn. This is a big deal. Get involved before it is too late. Donate money to PIJAC. Write, call, fax, harrass your elected officials. Do something now. I am going to court in Ohio to get started on my situation. Imagine if your local pet store had to go through a customs like clearing process for international shipments just to get in crickets or goldfish.
 
Wow!
That's just too much like big bro to me....

Thanks for the heads up Evan.
Do you have a news link, so the story can be passed along to other sites?
 
I have this info from reliable sources. I do not even know if it is public yet. They are fighting us with negative public spin, lies, exaggerations and distorted stats in Ohio.
 
??

Evan,

This is what I know at this point. You are right, they are making things up as they go, and I feel they are still trying to figure out how to shut things down totally. I also heard the samething that PIJIC is getting involved in this as well.
I called the ODNR and asked about shipping. They stated if it was for public display then a vet certificate is needed for people bringing in herps to Ohio. Likewise I would need a vet certificate to bring things into the state if I purchased it from a out of state show. So, I asked again about shipping, as I wasnt to concerned about the shows. They forwarded me to the Ohio Agro dept. The person I spoke to there said they didnt know of any regulations on shipping to or from Ohio on non-native reptiles. I asked again how do I find out for sure and they stated that I needed to speak to the state vet (forgot his name). I left my name and number and never got a call back.
Well, considering USPS ships reptiles (not snakes) and the airlines, I felt that this may be a good place to start. I called Delta and talked to Linda the supervisor at port Columbus. She stated that once a law goes into effect they have to obide by it asap. The goverment (state or federal) sends a bullitin as soon as the law is in effect. I was told the same from the post office (remember goverment run). I can ship Delta just like normal. If I had reptiles other than snakes, I can still use USPS.
Whats this tell me ?? NOTHING !! Thats whats really frustrating. No one seems to know. Not just us herpers, but the damn people who are trying to enforce the laws. Their not even sure.
My best GUESS is right now its OK to ship. RIGHT now. Its not going to take long for them to figure out that loop hole. I was there when the raid took place and was actually interviewed by the Feds. One officer made it clear to me that this is a "NATIONAL clean up and only the start". Other states and other shows are very likely to suffer the same BS we went threw.
Think cause your in Texas, Maryland, Oregon, etc. that this wont eventually effect you ?? Just wait. Ohio is getting a bad rap about this. But be forwarned, its not just a Ohio issue, EVERY herper is going to be effected eventually. Ohio was just the first in line I guess. In a nutshell, this sucks.
 
Like I said in the other thread, I'll help if I can. I'm worried now to be a vendor at any Ohio shows because I don't want the gov. to have my address.

Erin Benner
 
Hey Joe, I was in court in Columbus today and because I was one of the first to go in front of the judge handling environmental issues, he inquired about my experience and qualifications with reptiles and then asked if he could ask me a bunch of questions on the subject of business and legal issues as he is not familiar with this area and was not really understanding much of it. He was a super nice guy and I was happy to answer his questions. That is the root of the problem though. The Ohio DNR has convinced everyone that these raids and tickets are to prevent individuals from overcollecting native species and selling them for profit. There is not one of us who is not against that! The problem is, that is just not the truth or what is happening. I was there for selling a hatching, captive bred, genetic mutant of a species that happens to be native to Ohio. As I told the judge, having somebody like me selling this captive bred animal for $35, is your best deterrent to overcollection. Collecting is sketchy and if the snakes are not worth much and can readily be purchased from breeders, legally, most people would never even consider going out and collection them from the wild. So they are pushing breeders like me out of doing business in Ohio and that, as I explained to the court, is the worst thing you can do as it will only make the animals harder to obtain, more desirable, expensive and worthwhile to the greedy to collect.
 
Somebody help out the simpletons. Like me.

Now, am I understanding correctly?

If I want to fight legislation of this nature so as to avoid Ohio setting a precedent other states may mimic, but I do not live in Ohio so can not vote on the issue......................

I do what?

1. Join PIJAC and donate cash? (And someone please assure me this will not turn out like when I happily forked over cash to the HSUS and then found out they were trying to destroy my hobby?!?!)

2. Write to elected officials? Like Whom....................? Ohio's officials are not likely to care about my letters, and California's won't care. Will they? So............

State Supreme court?

Help out those of us who would like to help, but are just not sure how.
 
1) yes, donate to PIJAC as they are taking up the fight now

2) write to YOUR elected officials at your state level, if everyone of these bums knew that we were against this type of legislation they would think twice before passing it but nobody speaks out
 
We have not had any issues shipping to Ohio yet, but I will post as soon as I do. Sometimes these things are created to just sneak up on people. Thanks for the heads-up!
Ken Chiarella
Wormman.com
 
I just wanted to give you guys some insight into this situation as it is a proposal for several states right now that is being kept quiet. For your info as well they can have fish and wildlife/department of natural resources file an executive order from the head of the administration and that puts it into effect as a law without having the opportunity for their to be public hearings and votes by the state houses. This is how they get most of what they want against us.

I am dealing now with a couple customers in Tennessee and the law there is what they are looking for. You must notify state governemnt prior to shipments coming in. You must pay a fee for every shipment that comes in. Any "native animals" and let me be very clear about this, the state does not recognize subspecies or mutations as exemptions to the owner having to have permits. What I am saying is in Tennessee and some other states, if you were to by albino honduran milks, hypo pueblan milks, albino cornsnakes, etc, etc, they are all considered native, true or not, and it does not matter if they are a mutation. This is the worst kind of law. This efectively destroys the pet trade and hobby of reptile keeping.
 
evansnakes said:
I am dealing now with a couple customers in Tennessee and the law there is what they are looking for. You must notify state governemnt prior to shipments coming in. You must pay a fee for every shipment that comes in. Any "native animals" and let me be very clear about this, the state does not recognize subspecies or mutations as exemptions to the owner having to have permits. What I am saying is in Tennessee and some other states, if you were to by albino honduran milks, hypo pueblan milks, albino cornsnakes, etc, etc, they are all considered native, true or not, and it does not matter if they are a mutation. This is the worst kind of law. This efectively destroys the pet trade and hobby of reptile keeping.
Click to expand...

Evan,
First of all I want to say thanks for all that you are doing for each and every one of us in the reptile trade. Your hard work and tenacity are definitely appreciated.

You are correct about TN requiring import permits, but possession permits are not required to keep legally obtained animals. The permit is required only when the intent to breed and sell offspring, if I understand the laws correctly. Anyway, here is a link that may help..

TN regulations of live wildlife

See page 2, section 2 - d.

Hope this helps,
 
Thanks very much Dwight. I ma just learning about this from talking to folks this week. Thanks very much for the kind words as well. It helps.

Can you imagine though, the government requiring every shipment of produce or house plants to be inspected as they cross state lines? It could never be done. They have singled us out and are requiring US citizens doing business in the USA to go through a process that is only required for international borders from other industries! What's next? Barbed wire and armed guards at the Ohio Michigan border?
 
Just out of curiosity, what is the stated purpose of putting these restrictions on shipping live goods? Cantagion? Fear of establishing non native animals outside of their natural range?

What problems are the laws supposed to address?
 
Ohio shipping.

I just purchased some reptiles from someone in Ohio. They sent them in one of those pre-made scales boxes labled perishable on it. It made it past the first UPS DC, then was stopped and returned to sender. I told the gentlemen to just ship it in a unmarked box. It made it just fine. I ship UPS all the time and never mark the box. I have never had one problem to this day. It is to bad people look down on shipping reptiles, but I believe some of it has to also do with people packaging things properly. I would have to believe that they have had several instances where things have gone wrong because people didn't pack stuff well, which has led to them being tight-As@es. Anyway it still sucks.
James
 
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