Bad Guy a4strick, Sydney Michelle Strickling, terrible chameleon transaction

[alee]

Alee, as of now you have 'free' chams, no? There's only a couple ways for this to go (what am I missing?):

1. Sydney repays paypal, pays the vet bill, and shipping. You send chams back.
2. Sydney doesn't repay paypal, you pay the vet bill, you keep the chams.

You said (I think) that you had a vet appointment next week. I am guessing it's not on Monday. So, your appointment is probably around the 2nd or 3rd (Wednesday or Thursday), when Sydney said she could pay. Why antangonize her with 'that's not good enough'?

I don't think it's fair to ask Sydney to pay for the vet bill if you intend to keep the animals.

So, to me, the real question here is something like, "Who is going to keep the chams?" Again, feel free to correct me.....

You know, "free chams" are not what I am looking for. I have 16 other healthy ones at home. I paid full asking price for each and every one. I have always strive to do the right thing all my life, but this is up to Sydney, if she chooses to pay Paypal + ship + vet, I will ship them back to her. Would I feel good about sending them back to her, no, not in the state that they are in. If she chooses not to pay, I will keep and take care of the chams. I would never ask her to pay for the vet bills if I intended to keep them. Again, it is up to her. Yes, I would like to know what she wants to do, and I would like to see action, not talk. After all the lies, I have a tough time believing her. I have to be very cautious with her. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I see where you're coming from, totally. It's a sh*tty situation and I don't envy you at all, but the fact that she's at least stated she's willing to refund you is a step forward, although minimal. I know you won't be satisfied until you actually see those numbers back in your Paypal account, and I can't blame you for it at all (since I would be the same way).

I think she's looking for a proper estimate from the vet bill - you're asking/telling her to pay RIGHT NOW for something you don't have a physical estimate for yet, so it's hard for her to pay for it in that instance.

I still don't think the 'I don't trust my phone with paypal' is a valid excuse (has this been known to happen? Fraud through stealing of info while paying for something via phone?), but the full refund should be paid before the vet care, I think, so you can at least get the majority of your money back.

And if I'm overstepping any bounds with help or mediating here just let me know and I'll back out and let you two fight to the death, as it were, lol.

No, Paypal covered the cost (at least the last time I checked, LOL), now she has to pay them back. As for the vet estimate, I really don't know. My chams have never been in that state (knock on wood), and have always been healthy. I really have to call to find out.

No hard feelings. As I have stated before, I do appreciate you trying to help.

lol @ workin with her? ive read this thread an dont see it.. alee wait an see if she even pays paypal the 800 for chams she knows arnt falys an not in the best of shape unlike you when you bought them she knows better.. she got caught in to many lies an should be ashamed of herself not tryen to bkpeddle now after the fact you got your money bk.. good luck to you an both the chams..

Thank you.

 

[a4strick]

well after you call and get a quote please let me know

 

[alee]

well after you call and get a quote please let me know

I will be glad to. Are you paying back the full amount to Paypal? Do you want them back? If yes, you need to pay full shipping cost and vet bills (if you want me to take them to the vet) Although I will do my best to care for them, if they take a turn for the worse or they die while they are here, I will claim no responsibility, and I owe you nothing. Just want to make everything clear. Thank you.

 

[alee]

I will be glad to. Are you paying back the full amount to Paypal? Do you want them back? If yes, you need to pay full shipping cost and vet bills (if you want me to take them to the vet) Although I will do my best to care for them, if they take a turn for the worse or they die while they are here, I will claim no responsibility, and I owe you nothing. Just want to make everything clear. Thank you.

One more thing to add, if they die or become worse during shipping, I am at no fault also.

 

[a4strick]

if they die in shipping due to improper shipping then i think that you should be held responsible for that. Yes i understand you want shipping plus vet. Yes if they are that sick that you feel they have to go to the vet then take them. I am not cruel and heartless as some people think!

 

[alee]

You still haven't answer my questions-

I will be glad to. Are you paying back the full amount to Paypal? Do you want them back? If yes, you need to pay full shipping cost and vet bills (if you want me to take them to the vet) Although I will do my best to care for them, if they take a turn for the worse or they die while they are here, I will claim no responsibility, and I owe you nothing. Just want to make everything clear. Thank you.

if they die in shipping due to improper shipping then i think that you should be held responsible for that. Yes i understand you want shipping plus vet. Yes if they are that sick that you feel they have to go to the vet then take them. I am not cruel and heartless as some people think!

Then please drop by to pick them up. You just need to arrange a time with me, when both my husband and I are home, that is after you have paid Paypal back. Since they are in such poor condition, I am not taking any chances. I did not ask to buy 2 sick rescued chams so that I can nurse them back to health to return to you; and to spend countless hours fighting and straightening out this mess. I should be spending my free time with my family. I am a full time working mom with 2 young kids. I am VERY, VERY tired of this.

 

[a4strick]

I am not coming to pick them up in new york paypal will not let me do anything until their investigation is complete and yes i want them back.

 

[alee]

I am not coming to pick them up in new york paypal will not let me do anything until their investigation is complete and yes i want them back.

Then you arrange for someone to pick them up after you reimburse Paypal. I am done, I wasted enough time. I did not create this mess. I will not be responsible for if anything happened to them during the time that they are here. I did not agree to nurse 2 sick chams back to health to ship back to you (and be responsible if something happens to them during shipping) when I got scammed into this by you. Again, you created this mess, you fix it.

 

[a4strick]

If they are properly package during shipping then you would not be held responsible for anything thats all i was saying.

 

[a4strick]

i am not having someone come and pick them up you agreed to ship them back as long as i paid shipping and vet bills i asked you for how much in vet costs your looking for

 

[rjarosek]

If they are properly package during shipping then you would not be held responsible for anything thats all i was saying.

i am not having someone come and pick them up you agreed to ship them back as long as i paid shipping and vet bills i asked you for how much in vet costs your looking for

It is only fair if she is willing to pay for shipping and vet. If the vet gives them an OK and you ship properly you have nothing to worry about.

It's really easy if Sydney pays for the vet directly and pays for the lable and email it to you. You will be out of pocket nothing.

I will help you with anything you need to pack. I will provide a new box, heat or cold pack and what ever else may be needed to get them safely to back to her. Pictures can be taken to ensure proper packaging. Possibly have it held at a UPS/FEDex location and have it opened there in front of someone.

 

[rjarosek]

ugh * label

 

[alee]

i am not having someone come and pick them up you agreed to ship them back as long as i paid shipping and vet bills i asked you for how much in vet costs your looking for

Yes, I will only ship them if you pay for ship and vet, AND I am not responsible if something happens to them while they are here or during ship. I don't trust you. I don't know what you will try next. What do you think? I am going to do something to hurt these chams? Of course I will pack them properly and with care, but, let me repeat, I don't trust you, I am not taking any chances. I am not the one who sold these sick, rescued animals with a live arrival guarantee and 5 day health for $800.

It is only fair if she is willing to pay for shipping and vet. If the vet gives them an OK and you ship properly you have nothing to worry about.

It's really easy if Sydney pays for the vet directly and pays for the lable and email it to you. You will be out of pocket nothing.

I will help you with anything you need to pack. I will provide a new box, heat or cold pack and what ever else may be needed to get them safely to back to her. Pictures can be taken to ensure proper packaging. Possibly have it held at a UPS/FEDex location and have it opened there in front of someone.

Thank you Ryan for offering to help. It is very nice of you, I appreciate it very much.

 

[a4strick]

you still havent answered my question all i asked was for you to let me know about how much the vet will be!!

 

[Dennis Hultman]

It seems to me that it would work out better for everyone including the animals if it could be worked out if Amy could keep the animals if she wanted to take it on.

You have agreed to refund her funds in a couple of statements and you have also stated you will wait to see Paypal's conclusion in a couple of other statements. Whichever way she gets her funds back and the case is closed by Paypal, you will be out whatever rescue fee you paid for them, the shipping cost to and from and what you agreed to pay for Vet care. Considering you have already stated your not heartless and go ahead and take them to the Vet, that seems to be confirmed statement that you would cover the cost. Then you would have to worry about the heath and if they survive before you sell them again. Lets say you have $100 tied up in shipping both ways including packaging and at least few hundred bucks on Vet and prescriptions you will be losing substantially by asking for them back. I don't think you will find it easy to resale them considering their history. I don't know what you paid for them if anything the first time around but if you go to sell them again you will probably make just enough to cover what you lost in this transaction if you pay for the Vet and shipping again. That is if the animals survive.

On Amy's side if she is receiving her funds back she will still be out Vet cost because of treatment she will need to give and resources and time she will have to put into bringing the animals back to a healthy state.

Both of you state the animals need to be treated and both have agreed already to this. If you deduct the cost of the treatment from the actually value sent maybe you will find some common ground to end this. That is if Amy wants to keep them.

I'm curious what value someone put on the sick animals she received? Nowhere near the 800 she was charged and considering one may not make it as it is and she didn't agree to take on sick animals.

It seems to me that by your statements you might not have paid for them but received them from a friend. Is that correct? Well then at this point you might have only fifty bucks into them. Even if you did pay for them as a "rescue" I'm sure it was nowhere near the 800 dollar mark either.

If you want to work something out, How much do have in the chams? If it is only shipping costs so far, why don't you send paypal back 750 of the 800 and let Amy keep the chams for the shipping cost. She will still have to put in several hundred to bring the chams up to good heath. She will end up paying Vet costs so she isn't getting them for free. Seems to be closer to the actual worth of the Chams in the condition they were sent.

If you hadn't already agree to cover Vet costs and you just received them back and one didn't make it, you will still be out substantially. The shipping both ways, what it would cost you vet wise to bring them back to heath on your end, feeding housing. You just moved, how is that going to work out?
The time its going to take you to try and move them again. Again, I don't think you are going to find it easy to do.

Anyway that is just my thoughts. I don't pretend to speak for your buyer that seems like a simple solution to me.

 

[Killer Chams]

Amy I wouldnt get all worked up at this point. I know its hard to keep a level head after feeling like youve been screwed over by this individual. But at this point you dont even know that she'll EVER pay back pay pal or pay any of the other expenses. I dont see her ever paying back a dime to anyone and I believe this all a bluff to make her APPEAR to actually care about the chams. Your probably stuck with having to rehab them yourself. So in my estimation you didnt really get anything FREE. Because its going to take time and $$ to get them back in top condition if its even possible given the females state.
You have every right infact to charge the seller boarding and care costs associated with those two animals. You shouldnt work for free to rehab them so she can turn around and resell them. A vet or a boarding company would charge her PER DAY for the chams care so I feel that falls under your right if you so choose. After the crap she put you thru to recoup your money and the lies she's told you I wouldnt feel any remorse charging HER for your time, your supplies & meds. I dont feel it will ever come to that though, she will probably disappear.

 

[a4strick]

i am not going any were im still waiting for a quote.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Really, Amy has her money from PayPal, so as far as they're concerned, she really has no say or interest. PayPal will deal with Sydney, or decide to just squash it.

The concern here should only be the animals now IMO. And settling this thing between Sydney and Amy of course.

 

[alee]

I was in tears looking at the chams today, and I am right now, trying to talk about it. I really had to stay away from here for a few hours, just to clear my head. I don't know how anyone could do this to them. I have been teaching teenagers for 17 years, including in a NYC school, the worst to the best kids. I have always known to be a very tough person, but this is just crushing me. Maybe I just have a soft spot for animals. I just recently adopted a dog that is blind in one eye, and vision impaired in the other. She is also hearing impaired (she is a double merle/ lethal white Aussie mix). I donated $350 to the rescue to adopt her. I love her to pieces. As I have stated before in a previous post, I am not looking for anything free, but the thought of shipping them back to her is killing me. Although the male is eating some crickets, this is how I find the male almost all hours of the day-

I also see the female sleep a lot during the day, even after a heavy misting-

How could anyone be so heartless and cruel? So Sydney scammed me, I am healthy and can take care of myself, but to take advantage of these 2 chams?

In regards to the vet cost-
My vet had unfortunately passed away from cancer. He was an exotic animal vet, and was the chief vet for the big apple circuit and taught at Cornell vet school. He was the greatest vet ever lived.

Goshen animal hospital charges $68 per sick visit for each animal, it does not include any fecal exams, lab tests, medications, .... I described the condition to the vet assistant, she estimates the bill to be at least $200 each. They have good vets.
I am waiting for another vet to get back to me. I will post as soon as I hear.

 

[Meg90]

Ok, after looking at them, they are still in REALLY bad shape. Is it really necessary to send them back at all?

Sydney, do you even want them back?

With the state they are in, more than likely you'll get a box of dead chameleons.

Sydney didn't pay for them, she "got them from a friend", Amy has all the money she paid back now so it looks even to me.

Why can't she just keep them and the matter just be DONE?

I think its best for the animals, best for the seller and buyer IMO.

What is their approximate worth in that condition anyways? 10$ each? I would hesitate to pay even that for them. I think they should stay where they are, and Sydney should just take this as a lesson on how to be a decent seller, and as a bigger lesson on dealing with RESCUED animals, and how its not ethical to sell them.