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? about Pastel Siblings

M

madamwlf

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Could someone explain to me what it means for a ball python to be a pastel sibling when it comes to genetics??? I see this all the time at shows and with big price tags but have no clue what it means? Is the gene for pastel recessive or dominant? Any help will be great!!!
 
A pastel sibling is nothing but a normal ball python. In a normal x pastel breeding, half the clutch will be pastels and half will be normal. Some breeders post these normals as pastel siblings in order to increase the price that they charge for the snake. In the end, it is just a normal ball python.
 
Actually the reason most people label the normal babies as pastel siblings is so that people know and believe they are true CB USA babies. Not many people try to produce normal balls. Think of the pastel as a visible het for super pastel. This would mean that the normal siblings to pastels are just that. Evan
 
Supposedly some of the pastel siblings are above average pretty.

The most widely accepted theory of the pastel gene is that it's a single gene so the pretty non pastel sibling effect shouldn't be caused by the pastel gene (which they don't have). My theory is that some of the premium pastel lines have been enhanced by other (non pastel) genes that have been bred into them and that the nice siblings show these other genes (high yellow etc.).

There is at least one person who believes that pastel is a combination of genes and I haven't yet heard their argument on this but for now I still believe it's a single gene and the nice looking siblings are not partial pastels or anything like that.
 
CornNut said:
Supposedly some of the pastel siblings are above average pretty.

The most widely accepted theory of the pastel gene is that it's a single gene so the pretty non pastel sibling effect shouldn't be caused by the pastel gene (which they don't have). My theory is that some of the premium pastel lines have been enhanced by other (non pastel) genes that have been bred into them and that the nice siblings show these other genes (high yellow etc.).

There is at least one person who believes that pastel is a combination of genes and I haven't yet heard their argument on this but for now I still believe it's a single gene and the nice looking siblings are not partial pastels or anything like that.
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Randy, it is *possible* that the pastel "gene" may be several closely linked genes that usually work together and stay together when passed down. If so, then this should start breaking down in the next couple years more and more with all the pastel x normal breedings that will be taking place as more get into pastels. It would also help explain the variation of quality of pastels out there. Then again, it being a single gene that is enhanced by selective outcrossing to only "pretty" normals is also possible. Right now I am leaning towards the idea of closely related polygenetic trait.

Or, you could accuse me of HOPING that is true. I have a "maybe" pastel, Bugly, who stood out next to his normal siblings, but next to an obvious pastel he looks a bit drab. He has the pastel eyes, lighter tongue, and *some* of the pastel coloring, but not all. He's an 04, so it will be about 2 years before I know for sure by breeding him to my nice colored normal girls. Until then, it will be "maybes" and "possiblys" and "shoulds," as ball python genetics are getting stranger as new morphs and combinations produce unexpected results. But hey, that makes it a CHALLENGE, and a fun one at that! Here's to figuring that out in the next 5-10 years :)
 
But how many generations have the pastels already been outbred? Of course I don't have personal experience producing lots of pastels so maybe some have already seen it start to break apart.

Does your "Bugly" have the white belly? If it has all the pastel traits but is just a little drab on the color (but still brighter than normal) maybe it's a pastel (single gene theory) and just happened to get other genes that dull it out. Just like my theory that some other genes enhance the premium pastel lines maybe there are other genes that have the opposite effect on it.

Anyone work for one of those big outfits that should be producing hundreds of pastels a year soon? Seems like you could sort through a big sample size and the numbers should prove it one way or the other.
 
CornNut said:
Anyone work for one of those big outfits that should be producing hundreds of pastels a year soon? Seems like you could sort through a big sample size and the numbers should prove it one way or the other.
Click to expand...
I'd love to see the numbers also :) Three categories of results, perhaps? Pastel, normal, and "in-between" if there are any.

According to the issue of Reptiles magazine, pastels were proven genetic in 97, so it's been almost 8 years. Average breeding age of 2, make it 4 generations, with the fifth due to breed in the next year or so. How many generations will it take? I dunno. But I think it would be fun trying to figure it out, as I really like pastels :) Reminds me of those jigsaw puzzles that have 5,000 pieces and no picture of what the finished puzzle will look like.
 
CornNut said:
Does your "Bugly" have the white belly? If it has all the pastel traits but is just a little drab on the color (but still brighter than normal) maybe it's a pastel (single gene theory) and just happened to get other genes that dull it out. Just like my theory that some other genes enhance the premium pastel lines maybe there are other genes that have the opposite effect on it.
Click to expand...
Right now, he doesn't LOL I keep my BPs on newspaper (best use for the local one!) and the newsprint gets on the belly scales. I'll try to take some more pics of him next time he sheds, as the belly pic didn't turn out this last time.
 
High gold I can easily see...but ringer and banded? I thought ringer came from pied lines? More pieces that don't fit in the puzzle LOL
 
I have seen ringers from pastel, pied, het pied, albino, het albino, normal and other breedings. They appear to be a random pattern variant like non genetic stripes and bandeds.
 
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