about siklback and their husbandry

[Tere Salazar]

I found this, too. Don't know if it makes any difference. It's from some website in German, so please don't laugh.

Erstmaliger Nachweis einer Adenovirus - Infektion bei einer Bartagame ( Pogona vitticeps AHL, 1926) in Österreich
A. KÜBBER-HEISS1, V. BENETKA4, Th. FILIP2, G. BENYR3, F. SCHILCHER1, C. PALLAN4,† und K. MÖSTL4
eingelangt am 15.12.2006
angenommen am 2.3.2006



Schlüsselwörter: Bartagame, Pogona vitticeps, Einschlusskörperchenhepatitis, Adenovirus, Polymerasekettenreaktion.

Zusammenfassung
Es wird über den Nachweis einer tödlich verlaufenden Einschlusskörperchenhepatitis bei einer Bartagame ( Pogona vitticeps) berichtet. Das Tier stammte aus dem Bestand des Naturhistorischen Museums in Wien und zeigte klinisch weder unspezifische Symptome wie Anorexie und Schwäche noch sonstige Auffälligkeiten. Pathohistologisch wurden erhebliche Leberzelldegeneration und -verfettung sowie multiple, große, basophile Kerneinschlüsse festgestellt. Diese wurden elektronenmikroskopisch als Adenoviruspartikel identifiziert. Mittels einer consensus Polymerasekettenreaktion konnte ein Abschnitt der adenoviralen DNA des Polymerasegens amplifiziert werden, welcher sich nach Sequenzierung als zu 98 % ident mit der einzigen in der Genbank verfügbaren Sequenz eines Bartagamen- Adenovirus erwies. Es handelt sich um den ersten beschriebenen Fall in Österreich.


Keywords: bearded dragon, Pogona vitticeps, inclusion body hepatitis, adenovirus, polymerase chain reaction.

Summary
First detection of an adenovirus infection in a bearded dragon ( Pogona vitticeps) in Austria

Introduction
Bearded dragons ( Pogona vitticeps) are commonly kept reptiles. The natural habitat covers eastern and central Australia within bush velds and dry forests. Bearded dragons kept in Austria most likely originate from breeders in Germany or the United States. Adenovirus infection is commonly known in a variety of reptiles. Clinical symptoms are mostly non-specific including lethargy, anorexia up to agonal neurological symptoms. Frequently death occurs without any prior clinical symptoms.We report a fatal inclusion body hepatitis in a bearded dragon originating from an Austrian stock.

Material and methods
The adult bearded dragon ( Pogona vitticeps) presented was bred in the vivarium of the Museum of Natural History Vienna. It was kept together with further bearded dragons, some tiliquine skinks ( Tiliqua scinoides) and king’s lizards ( Chlamydosaurus kingii) in a terrarium of 4.5 square meters. No clinical symptoms including unspecific symptoms as anorexia or weakness were observed before death. After routine dissection, samples for histology, electron microscopy and virology were taken.

Results
Pathohistologically a considerable fatty degeneration of hepatocytes and disseminated single cell necroses were detected. Numerous hepatocytes contained intranuclear, mostly basophilic inclusions. They were identified as adenoviral particles by electron microscopy. Using a consensus polymerase chain reaction, a sequence of the adenoviral DNA of the polymerase gene was amplified, which exhibited a homology of 98 % with the only sequence of a bearded dragon adenovirus available in the GenBank.

Conclusion
Fatal inclusion body hepatitis is quite commonly
described in different reptile species. As in our case native organ tissues are often not available. Molecular techniques - especially PCR - can ensure diagnosis with a very high sensitivity and specificity and possibly clarify the yet unknown transmission ways of this infection.

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[Tere Salazar]

Introduction
Bearded dragons ( Pogona vitticeps) are commonly kept reptiles. The natural habitat covers eastern and central Australia within bush velds and dry forests. Bearded dragons kept in Austria most likely originate from breeders in Germany or the United States. Adenovirus infection is commonly known in a variety of reptiles. Clinical symptoms are mostly non-specific including lethargy, anorexia up to agonal neurological symptoms. Frequently death occurs without any prior clinical symptoms.We report a fatal inclusion body hepatitis in a bearded dragon originating from an Austrian stock.

Could someone whose brain isn't fried for the day please tell me if this means that us and the German breeders have infected another country?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Originally Posted by whiskersmom
Also, if you think about how long the dragons have been here in the states, since the early 80's, without Adeno being discovered until '96 wouldn't that give a slight indication that the dragons didn't come here captive caught with the virus....16 years is a long time for people not to notice that our dragons were sick. Or could it be that they no longer could fight it off as their immune system had been weakened by continuous inbreeding?

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman
Maybe, maybe not. New and mutant strains of viruses pop-up in every animal on this planet. Man isn't exempt either.

I might add that what we could identify as a cause of a illness changes constantly as our own knowledge increases. My guess would be that 16 years of experience would be considered a minuscule amount of time. In the last sixteen years look how we have advanced in the study and causes of diseases in humans. It is quite possible that early signs went without notice. Contributed to bad husbandry or a host of other causes.

One other point that comes to mind after reading some of the reports is how many people actually tested any deceased neonates in the eighties. It really is a sad fact that all animals but to a higher degree reptiles in general were treated as disposable. The likelihood that many owners would have investigated their animals demise or even been able to would have been limited to a very few.

Pay close attention to the contributer of this study

I was just reading that too. How funny. I have the PDF file open in another window from The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology Department

 

[whiskersmom]

I agree 100% with your entire post.

 

[whiskersmom]

I was just reading that too. How funny. I have the PDF file open in another window from The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology Department

What are you meaning here?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

What are you meaning here?

That we were reading the same thing at the same time.

 

[whiskersmom]

Ok, thanks...I thought maybe this case was being reproduced or something....thanks!!!

 

[whiskersmom]

Dennis, this is a post made by CheriS regarding the history of Adenovirus.

I will try to summarize what I know, although everytime I put any of this information up is starts the snide comments from breeders and their "buddies" that do not want this known for obvious reasons.Some history for those interested
Contrary to what some would like other to believe and continue to lie over, Adenovirus has been in the wild population and other countries captive breed population since 1981, but very limited- not epidemic like it is becoming in the US and now Europe too. The reason people can not find prior history is 10 they do not want to, 2)that it either is not online (Australia was not big on computers in the 80's) but in other country publications AND 3)they were not pogona then, but Amphibolurus and the people claiming it do not even know that.

It showed up in the US heavily in bearded dragons that I know of, that were imported from Germany in 1997-2000 to Florida, in the german giants and redflame lines, later the orange glow line and those were all crossed together. Don't panic there were lines from the both GG and redflame that were healthy/clear of the virus so do not assume if you have a dragon from those line, that it is infected. Some of those were shipped back to Europe *(this is significant later) but also sold heavily in the New England (PA, NJ, NY) and Southern(FL, NC. SC, GA) states at reptile shows and also a group went to Arizona. Still it could have been contained, as it was pretty well known what lines and who had it back in 2001-2002. But again, some breeders elected to continue to sell stock they knew were infected.

Among those also were some rarer infected morphs coming back into the US from Europe, mainly Belgium and England, but the same infected dragons were also shipped to Japan, Sri Lanki and Italy, so you had outbreaks there also. Many people thought these were weaker animals due to inbreeding as they were all related, but I am pretty sure the fact they were infected with adenovirus played a huge role in the higher death rate of the offspring and the failure to thrive of the ones that did survive. True they were inbreed, breeders did that on purpose to have the trait which even with sickly looking dragons they were selling for $750-$1500, but we now know that they also were carriers of the virus and as far as I know, those tested even this year have all been positive. It was even noted as early as 2003 by a breeder breeding them, on Kingsnake.com, that they were failing to thrive and had much higher mortality rates... still people bought them for the novelty and added them to their existing colonies, infecting their own prior clear dragons if they dodged the other lines earlier. This is where many of the breeders in the west got infected from.

It is interesting that at the same time adeno was spreading so rapidly in the US, Orient and Europe that some of the new morphs were showing up in the us and testing positive for adeno, buy other normal imports were clear......it really makes me wonder if the two are not related somehow?

So, now it is not unusual for someone testing more than a few pets dragons, to find at least one infected or more since they come from those same well known online breeders...... that is what it seems some breeders set out to make happen a few years back and they continue to do so still, knowing they are selling adeno positive animals. Some breeders having this are now and back then, have tried to spin the tale that it is okay, everyone's dragon carry adenovirus and it is not a problem, or the worst I have heard is to infect all dragons so the ones that survive are immune and it is not a problem anymore, that is really stupid thinking, don't believe it. First, they have no way of knowing that is going to happen and ever indicator we have is that this virus can be very destructive to some young baby dragons and can infect any dragon in contact with them or any age for years to come. Secondly, as more people test and it does show they are clear, it dispels the falsehood that infected breeders use to justify their actions in selling and spreading adenovirus. NOT ALL DRAGONS HAVE IT AND ARE INFECTED contrary to what some breeders want to convince others of. There are owners and breeders with totally clear colonies as this thread alone has shown and I know that for a fact as I have seen and helped with some of the PRC and fecal test. There are even some very large breeders that have never had an infected dragon in their collection out west as they never bought from the breeders in the south and east that have spread this, but I know that it also is showing up in collections out there now, since so many newer breeders from the past few years have bought dragons from the south and east and were not aware that there was a problem with those lines.

That is the history of what I know and how it has spread. 2002 is was still contained in a few colonies/breeders, 2004 it spread significantly, and 2006 it blooms to a massive level. I suspect with the amount of dragons we know just a few breeders are putting out right now that are infected, it will be chronic next year....... but at least now people are testing and we are also seeing there are many clear colonies still. I feel especially sorry for people like Tere, Wendy, Brandon and Suzanne who had to deal with this when they were innocent victims also, not to mention all the dragons.... but commend each of them for being cautious and doing the right thing to help NOT spread it. It tells you who really cares about the animals and who only sees them as dollar signs.

Not only has Dr Wentz advised not to breed or sell infected ones, but also Dr Elliott Jacobson, University of Florida and leading herp researcher or IBD and paramyxo, who has done what he can to curtail the spin doctor's tales of everything is fine and business as usual. His letter to the community can be found here Dr Jacobson's letter to the bearded dragon community And still... some breeders tell you all is well and the rest of us are out to "get" them!!

One final note: Do not trust ANYONE that has personal or financial interest in this matter.... even me, look to the professionals and that is not a breeder or people in the human medical field, but the vet/researchers that know and have worked with reptilian virus already, which are very different from human virus. No one has the answers about this virus right now, not that it needs a another virus or parasite to be a problems, or that it is something else killing them or that ANY University is telling them it is okay to breed/sell them, that is not true and each person that has claimed these things and we have checked with their source, denies they ever told them any such thing, in fact they claim they told them the opposite

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Dennis, this is a post made by CheriS regarding the history of Adenovirus.

Thank you for bringing that to this thread. I feel that ALL people should read that at least twice. Regardless if it is a personal statement or not, she brings up SEVERAL good points.

Look to the Professionals that do not have any Financial or personal interest for the answers.

I think that is the best advice anyone can give at this point in time.

 

[KelliH]

It is interesting that at the same time adeno was spreading so rapidly in the US, Orient and Europe that some of the new morphs were showing up in the us and testing positive for adeno, buy other normal imports were clear......

I would be interested in seeing documentation showing that normal imports were free of adeno.

an emerging disease of wild Australian Bearded Dragons in the Northern Territory of Australia

Yes, that is what I was referring to, the fact that it stated adenovirus was found in wild Bearded Dragons was what caught my eye. I thought maybe I just was not seeing how to open up the article, haha looks like there isn't one, only a title. Too bad as it would have been interesting to read.

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

That post from CheriS is posted on a UK forum to help them out. They have had problems over there as well, due to them importing from the US. In some earlier posts, she had even told them to be cautious if purchasing from the US due to this virus. She also told them to please test if buying from the US before breeding as well. She has been very helpful to those folks over there as they are trying their best to keep it from spreading to the point that it has here.
I have read quite a few of the sources that were posted here, on the Adenovirus in the wild. True, while all species of animals do get sick, & contract types of virus' in the wild, what more than likely happened, is initially when they started breeding, someone caught a wild one with the virus & began breeding without knowing it had a sickness. It was not caught in time. I do not think it is prevalent in Australia like it is here. They quickly get things under control, & their quarantine is very good. At least that is what Dr. Franciscus Scheelings has told me anyway. He is a practicing veterinarian in Australia. He has told me that Adenovirus is not a problem over there.
The documented case in Auckland Park, New Zealand, was a very isloated case at that time from what I understand. That was very early on. While we may have imported some sick animals, once we discovered the virus we had alot of chances to keep it at bay to keep it from spreading but didn't.

Tracie

 

[whiskersmom]

The case in Auckland Zoological Park was not a Pogona Vittaceps, it was a Barbatus.

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

You are right Sherri, I knew that but forgot to mention it. The Pogona Barbatus is a completely different species. So, who's to say that they have different virus' while still in the same agama family.
There are husbandry differences in the vitticeps & barbatas as well.

Tracie

 

[Tere Salazar]

Hello,

You are right Sherri, I knew that but forgot to mention it. The Pogona Barbatus is a completely different species. So, who's to say that they have different virus' while still in the same agama family.
There are husbandry differences in the vitticeps & barbatas as well.

Tracie

Just a curiosity question here. Does anybody happen to know when they switched from Amphibolurus to Pogona? I've been searching all morning, and can't even hunt down a year that took place. I know it has to be out there somewhere.

 

[whiskersmom]

Just a curiosity question here. Does anybody happen to know when they switched from Amphibolurus to Pogona? I've been searching all morning, and can't even hunt down a year that took place. I know it has to be out there somewhere.

I can't seem to find anything on when it happened either, Tere. Sorry.

But I do have a question regarding the Adenovirus update from U of Fl.
In section 2.2.3 it says "PCR is a highly sensitive technique, and the potential for false positives from slight contamination throughout the process from collection to laboratory is high."
Wouldn't that explain why there is such a high infected rate at U of Fl. ?

 

[whiskersmom]

Tere, this was written by Melissa Kaplan...

Bearded dragons are agamid lizards belonging to the genus Pogona (formerly Amphibolurus, under which name they are found in books published up to just a couple of years ago). There are seven species, of which the most common in the pet trade is the P. vitticeps, the inland or central (also called the yellow-headed) bearded dragon is the most widely available. In smaller numbers, the common bearded (P. barbata) and the Rankin's (P. henrylawsoni) have become more widely available and the number of captive-bred animal slowly increases. The other Pogona dragon species include the western (P. minima), the dwarf (P. minor), the Northwest bearded (P. mitchelli), the Nullarbor (P. nullarbor), and the P. microlepitoda. (This article discusses the care associated primarily with P. vitticeps and P. barbata.)

So Pogona Vittaceps is a relatively new name, I'm guessing.

 

[mikey]

The name Pogona is itself relatively new. Before Glen Storr of the Western Australian Museum assigned these lizards this name, in 1982, they were lumped into the genus Amphibolorus with a number of other Australian agamid species.

http://www.smuggled.com/pogona1.htm

 

[Mad4You2]

Hey...just a suggestion - maybe you guys could continue the AV discussion on another thread with Adeno in the title...so if people are looking for information on AV they can pick it up from the thread title. If I were looking for discussion on Adenovirus I wouldn't open the one titled "about silkback and their husbandry thread."

I can also say that I was feverishly seeking AV information in March 2007 and having the subject name in the thread title really helps. Of course, there are so many other topics going on here you could probably split this into several threads....just imho
Angie

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,
That was the site I was going to suggest, smuggled. That is an excellent article.
Yeah, 1982, it is under taxonomy. I am glad that they changed the names though, to reflect the differences in the species, it was warranted. It didn't need to be lumped in with a different type of lizard.
Sorry, but alot of the Adeno discussions had importance concerning the silkbacks, & we felt it necessary to be brought up, yet again.

Tracie

 

[Tere Salazar]

I can't seem to find anything on when it happened either, Tere. Sorry.

But I do have a question regarding the Adenovirus update from U of Fl.
In section 2.2.3 it says "PCR is a highly sensitive technique, and the potential for false positives from slight contamination throughout the process from collection to laboratory is high."
Wouldn't that explain why there is such a high infected rate at U of Fl. ?

This concerns me even more than when I read in the middle of the night that Adenovirus had been found in a boa.