about siklback and their husbandry

[Tere Salazar]

The name Pogona is itself relatively new. Before Glen Storr of the Western Australian Museum assigned these lizards this name, in 1982, they were lumped into the genus Amphibolorus with a number of other Australian agamid species.

http://www.smuggled.com/pogona1.htm

Thank you, Jean.

 

[whiskersmom]

This concerns me even more than when I read in the middle of the night that Adenovirus had been found in a boa.

What I was wondering (as I only have experience with the EM method) was, is the collection of feces done at home? If so, isn't it highly possible that the contamination of the sample started there, therefore causing a positive result?
I've heard people wonder the same thing about the EM testings, collection causing a negative result.

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

Yeah, pretty bad! As if IBD isn't bad enough...

Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

Yeah, Sherri, it is a huge possibility of the contamination being started at home with the samples, if they were not done properly, etc.

Tracie

 

[whiskersmom]

Hello,

Yeah, Sherri, it is a huge possibility of the contamination being started at home with the samples, if they were not done properly, etc.

Tracie

So, it's a huge possibility that we aren't even close to finding out if Adeno is in ALL bearded dragons?

With that being said, the update still had a lot of great info and it seemed we all were waiting anxiously for it to come out but now that it's out and it tells us that even though they think that a big number of dragons have it, to still test, this being ignored. There is nothing that says definitively that ALL dragons have it. Not even close.
So, we make the mistake of breeding without testing therefore spreading this virus even further and now we want to create a mutation that doesn't have scales?

Does this make sense? Isn't there other lucritive ways to make money out there? We have to pick on an exotic animal to make our house, car, boat payments?

It's not right.

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

Totally agree! Until everything is figured out with the Adeno & the % of the population that actually has it, etc, then, the best we have is it just test, NO questions asked. If you don't test, then you really have no idea & that isn't right either.
If a breeder is not going to take the responsibility of testing each one of their breeders, then, they need to stop breeding & quit adding to the adeno population. I mean, aren't dogs, cats, & horses that are pedigreed, all certified disease free at the time of purchase? Well, why can't dragons have some type of standard like that? They deserve that. We should not be continuing to breed without testing, it is that simple, & then in the meantime, trying to create a new morphs to add into the mix when we don't even know how things are going to play out with this particular species!
I honestly do not believe that ALL dragons have it, otherwise, there wouldn't be people's dragons that have tested negative. However, there are a good number of them that do because it has spread so much.

Tracie

 

[Tere Salazar]

What I was wondering (as I only have experience with the EM method) was, is the collection of feces done at home? If so, isn't it highly possible that the contamination of the sample started there, therefore causing a positive result?
I've heard people wonder the same thing about the EM testings, collection causing a negative result.

Okay. After speaking with someone who has completed PCR testing many times, this is my understanding of things.

Some labs require both a cloacal wash and a poo sample, some labs only require the poo sample. I'm sure there are other things, too, but these are all I was informed of.

If the lab you use only accepts submissions from the vet, and they require the both the poo sample and the cloacal wash, you bring the dragon and a recent poo sample from that dragon to the vet with you. You give the recent poo sample to the vet. The vet performs a cloacal wash or swab, along with anything else vets do.

If the lab you use will accept submissions from individuals (which it is also my understanding the University of Florida did until recently, and I'm not sure if this protocol has changed yet), you send in your poo sample.

It is also my understanding that the poo is not required to be frozen, as it is in EM fecals.

To me, this indicates that the potential exists for many false POSITIVES in the PCR testing, particularly if one wanted it to appear that there were more positives than what there really are.

I don't know...you decide.

 

[puppytoes72]

sandi0906 on BD.org and i share the same vet.she had an appt with him last night and i asked her to say hi to him for me.well today we have pm'd back and forth a couple times discussing what dr sean had to say about her beardie and i also asked if she said hi for me and she said that he had a look on his face like"oh boy whats wrong with her beardie now!?".so i sent a pm back to her and asked her what he said,this was her pm back to me: "lol no he was just laughing he knows ur having so many different issues with jojo, i think hes intrigued by her to be honest. about his tail i dont know it could be why he wags it lol maybe he thinks its going to grow back lol but he said a good 2-3 inches was off it lol and stupid me when looking at others pictures i would always tell jack humm sandi has a short tail its not long like the others lol which also means sandi is older than i thought he was. and jojo is going to get the ^6<~~~ extra finger of hope lol on her next fecel . gosh i hope so i know she feels miserable on that crap. and because of jojo we discussed adeno and he believes its from inbreeding hes strongly believes that. we also talked bout the silkbacks and he feels as we do , he says thats setting up more deaths for beardies." just to clear things up i asked her permission to copy/paste her PM here and she said yes.she had no idea about this fauna thread (or "fauna" for that matter).i suppose she saw the thread on BD.org and decided to ask the vet about it.

 

[puppytoes72]

It's been very quiet on this thread for almost 2 weeks now.The last thing discussed was a very interesting deal put on the table by Vickie.Denise,have you heard from the person you entrusted your test results with?

 

[Valley Dragons]

I too would like to hear more about Denise's results. It seems that it should be relatively simple to have them verified by an impartial party. I'm surprised that Denise has not yet stepped up to Vicky's challenge. If it were me, I'd have the freakin' test results posted everywhere possible so that the truth could be seen by all!

Jamie

 

[puppytoes72]

i understand why she didnt post them herself before.someone can easily change them around.we saw that with chasity/cathy but a trusted person was a great idea.she did say that she contacted this person but maybe he/she is hard to get a hold of.i was just looking for an update.

 

[puppytoes72]

the silence and wondering was driving me bonkers

 

[walker75]

I too would like to hear more about Denise's results. It seems that it should be relatively simple to have them verified by an impartial party. I'm surprised that Denise has not yet stepped up to Vicky's challenge. If it were me, I'd have the freakin' test results posted everywhere possible so that the truth could be seen by all!

Jamie

I would like to see results from Valley Dragon 's posted also so everyone can see and Draggon Tails and many other breeders that have been wanting to see results. As your dragons are in question just as much as Denise's.

 

[whiskersmom]

I would like to see results from Valley Dragon 's posted also so everyone can see and Draggon Tails and many other breeders that have been wanting to see results. As your dragons are in question just as much as Denise's.

I agree, while we are waiting on Denise, it seems to me that these breeders should be working on getting their testings done and posting their results.
I'm not a breeder and I posted my results on BD.org and I plan on retesting in August, those results will be posted also.

 

[Valley Dragons]

I would like to see results from Valley Dragon 's posted also so everyone can see and Draggon Tails and many other breeders that have been wanting to see results. As your dragons are in question just as much as Denise's.

I think there is such a buzz about Denise's results because she says that her dragons are negative (at least that is what I understand, I might have her confused with someone else, it's still early for me, lol). I don't think the rest of us are claiming to have negative dragons.

Jamie

 

[puppytoes72]

I think there is such a buzz about Denise's results because she says that her dragons are negative (at least that is what I understand, I might have her confused with someone else, it's still early for me, lol). I don't think the rest of us are claiming to have negative dragons.

Jamie

yes,that would be denise.she is not trying to gaurentee that her beardies are absolutely,positively negative for adeno but they have tested negative more than once.you should check out her site.

 

[walker75]

I think there is such a buzz about Denise's results because she says that her dragons are negative (at least that is what I understand, I might have her confused with someone else, it's still early for me, lol). I don't think the rest of us are claiming to have negative dragons.

Jamie

I believe it is more than a BUZZ it is an out right ATTACK and given what she had been put through before I hope she takes her time. She has given alot of information on how to prove what she has said to be on her tests.

Now that you say you are not claiming to have negatives would and could I take that as You have Adeno Positive Dragons and have been selling them as healthy non positive dragons. Or is it a do not tell policy on the status of your colony and of course many other breeders.

There are negative colonies and this is just a way to say that all dragons have Adeno so that You and others can continue to sell the non publicized Adeno Positives Dragons in the many many Adeno Positive Colonies out there.

Admitting to Adeno Positive Dragons in colonies selling them as Positives while educating the owners and the public should be the course of action to help the Dragon community and the dragons themselves.

Or just stop breeding dragons it is simple

 

[walker75]

puppytoes

Denise has said her dragons have tested negative at this time. A whole lot of information on the status of her colony has been posted more than any other breeder in the community.

So why are the other breeders not saying how there colony has tested? At this time? Is it because they are positive and know it?

Why not say hey my dragons have tested positive for Adeno Virus and at this time, they appear to be healthy? I would like to stay in touch with each of my known positive dragons owners as to the health and life of said dragon.

 

[puppytoes72]

ty karen and i agree with everything you said in your post too except i do not hope denise takes her time on having the entrusted person post the results of the tests she had done.vickie has promised to apologize to denise AND to stop this silkback breeding project if she would just post the test results (pg. 47).it seems like a very easy thing to do to end this fight and make vickie eat her words and i am getting very anxious for that day to happen

 

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

It takes time to gather documents, etc, especially if they are at a vet's or a lab's office. Give her some time.
It seems kind of ridiculous to be giving Denise such a hard time when she has been nothing but honest right from the beginning which is alot more than I can say for a bunch of the other breeders who aren't even making any type of effort.
Please correct me if I am wrong...if you other breeders are making an effort please do speak up! Silence is the worse thing. If you say nothing, then as consumers all we can do is be uniformed & figure that you have something to hide.

Tracie