• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

About the BOI and it's future here...

WebSlave said:
I have at one time or another decided to do each of the following plans on January 1:

  1. Leave the BOI as it is.
  2. Change the BOI so that it can only be posted to by paid members, but viewing will be open to all.
  3. Change the BOI so that it can only be viewed and posted to by paid members.
  4. Do either (2) or (3) above and close down the BOI completely to all after 1 year.

At some point I had been convinced that each one of the above would be the best way to go, all things considered........

Obviously there is no clear path to a "right" thing to do.

I guess what is going to happen is however I feel at midnight on December 31 is what I will have to choose to do.
Click to expand...

Of course I would prefer option one above all but if that's not a viable option then I think three is the best and most fair to those that have tried to help.

I don't think option 2 is a very good idea if the whole point is to try to get more people to contribute. In my opinion the most important part of the BOI is not whether you can post or not but the information contained within the threads and if people can still get that info for free then what's going to encourage them to contribute if they already haven't.

Option four dooms the BOI right from the get go since everyone will pretty much be aware that there's no hope for the forum so a lot of people might figure why bother trying to contribute or even post.

Option three is good because it rewards those people who tried to help out and leaves the leeches sucking air.there's the very real possibility that the forum will spiral downward but then again you might be pleasantly surprised. I think once people realize what they've lost and maybe even get scammed a few times they might reconsider the small contribution fee.This option also doesn't put a moratorium on the forum which at the very least will keep hope alive and also encourage others to contribute. This option I think will be the best because ultimately it will let the BOI either float or sink but ultimately it will do it on it's own really show the true value of the forum.

Again just my opinion.
 
On Topic~

I'm pro any option that keeps the BOI open for me. However, even if it goes I'll still pay my dues again next year.

Off topic~

What is with the obsession about registered businesses? :shrug01:

Rich should also be sued for siting, standing and/or laying down.

I would never utilize the point system, sounds like a tedious pain in the rear.

There already is an e bay like system here - Trader Ratings.
 
Unfortunately I can see a potential problem for the BOI if Rich goes for a pay to play (dont gripe at me... I have my coins).

Lets say some hobbiest got scammed out of some small amount of money ($75)... and they havent heard of the BOI before... but were told to come comment here. Then they see they have to pay an additional $25 just to be able to tell their story.... now they are out $100 on an animal they never got.

True... due to peer pressure they MAY get their $75 back... but there is no guarantee's. Lets also assume that they are just a small time hobbiest and doesnt want to pay the additional $25 and would just like to lick their wounds ($75 lost) and move on. Now the rest of us will never know about some shady person. This would really hamper the BOI and its effectivness in the long run Im afraid.

Rich... something to think about. If you have enough set aside for one battle.... why not set it aside in an interest bering savings account then add to as contributions come in. This way the money is constantly growing and the interest keeps adding to the principal.

Just my personal opinion.... if you set it to a pay to play.... your gonna hamper the BOI's ability to do what you originally intended it to do.... because the small time folks that got scammed are not gonna pay even more to tell their story.
 
Rich, I completely agree with you: there is no perfect solution. Reminds me about something someone said about church: "There is no perfect church. If there were, I'd join it, and then it wouldn't be perfect anymore!"

Because I don't have any experience with running a board like this, any or all of my ideas may be (and probably are) fatally flawed by something I haven't even remotely considered. Any ideas of mine are simply that: ideas. Maybe they're good ideas; maybe they're terrible ideas. Either way, there is a chance my ideas will spark a good/better idea for someone else, so I'll blather on about them. I do not expect nor want anyone to take my ideas for the BOI as the absolute, 100% best way to run things.

In answer to Rich's question: I really can't offer any suggestions about implementing my ideas to this particular BOI thread because it does not follow the same procedure/rules/subject as typical BOI threads.

That being said, I do realize that I've unintentionally gone way off topic. Indeed, I need to stop thinking about how to "fix" the BOI and instead focus on how to save it. The time for that is rapidly drawing to a close, however, and aside from trying to get a few more people to contribute, there's not much else we can do except wait for Rich's decision.

And, as always, Rich, I will support whatever decision you make, and I will continue to support the site no matter what, as a thank you for how this site has helped me. :)

Have a Happy New Year, everyone...especially Rich. Go out and have some fun. :)
 
Southern Wolf said:
Unfortunately I can see a potential problem for the BOI if Rich goes for a pay to play (dont gripe at me... I have my coins).

Lets say some hobbiest got scammed out of some small amount of money ($75)... and they havent heard of the BOI before... but were told to come comment here. Then they see they have to pay an additional $25 just to be able to tell their story.... now they are out $100 on an animal they never got.

True... due to peer pressure they MAY get their $75 back... but there is no guarantee's. Lets also assume that they are just a small time hobbiest and doesnt want to pay the additional $25 and would just like to lick their wounds ($75 lost) and move on. Now the rest of us will never know about some shady person. This would really hamper the BOI and its effectivness in the long run Im afraid.

Rich... something to think about. If you have enough set aside for one battle.... why not set it aside in an interest bering savings account then add to as contributions come in. This way the money is constantly growing and the interest keeps adding to the principal.

Just my personal opinion.... if you set it to a pay to play.... your gonna hamper the BOI's ability to do what you originally intended it to do.... because the small time folks that got scammed are not gonna pay even more to tell their story.
Click to expand...


This was a very good point in my opinion and a good idea.

When I purchased in the past after being first ripped off by TSE for a couple grand and then again for another high amount from someone else. Since these two things have happened I since would not make high dollar purchases and kept my past purchases below $300. I agree that if someone gets scammed for $100 (or any amount) they aren't exactly going to be willing to post on here (as great as this site may be) and spend another $25 just to tell their story. I know in all honesty I probably wouldn't if I were in their shoes and had just been scammed for the first time. (speculation of course)

Again I think Southern Wolf has a good idea.
 
I just don't see how someone could get away with suing the site owner when it was not the site owner who posted the accusation. The "Sue-ee" should be the person who posted, IMO. God the internet has too many grey areas... Your privacy statement already says that It's not YOUR problem if someone posts something: it's theirs...it also says that you get to choose what gets deleted and what does not. By agreeing to the terms and conditions you agree to the privacy statement...but I guess anyone can sue anybody for any reason.

I do understand that being sued (or the constant fear of being sued) must really suck. I personally would not want to deal with it either. This is a tough situation and even money may not solve it. The BOI has saved me so much heartache and allowed me to share my good (and bad) experiences with others. I really would hate to see something happening to it.

Next paycheck I plan on making that member contribution. Even if the BOI falls the Fauna still needs monetary assistance. Good luck with your decision and have a wonderful new year.
 
Agreed that someone who was just scammed out of $100 may not want to pay an additional $25 to tell their story; but, if it is pay to play and they did find out about the BOI, likely they WOULD want to pay the $25 to keep from getting scammed out of ANOTHER $100 by finding out who is honest and who isn't. With the help of this site, I've been lucky, but if I were scammed out of money when I wanted to buy my kid a snake, I would STILL want to buy my kid a snake and I think I might look at that $25 as insurance that my kid would get a snake from a reputable dealer and that I wouldn't lose even more. Just another reason to

Save the BOI---"For the Children"

whose cash-strapped parents want to make sure they don't lose anymore of their hard earned $

Sorry about the drippy PC-sounding hype, it was just too cheap a shot not to take...
 
Virginia your missing one point I was trying to make... and I will admit... I faild at.

Lets say this same person is only a hobbiest (thus one of the reason they got scammed) and only buys maybe one animal every few years.

Would it be best to get their story out there even though they are a hobbiest and give them a place to share their story in hopes others dont fall prey

or

Just say... they are not really an asset to the community and hope they would be willing to shell out another $25 on top of what they lost to tell their story. If your only buying a herp every few years.... Id be willing to bet your not going to shell out the extra money to tell your story.

Me personally... the more people discussing things on the BOI the better the BOI. The moment it goes "pay to play" you have cut it off at the knees. Everyone is not going to be willing to pay to tell their story. They have already been scammed and that in itself is bad enough... making them pay to tell their story just adds insult to injury.

Rich I have a question... and you dont have to answer it here... its just something to think about.

I believe you stated that the BOI's current form has been the best of both worlds as far as trying to strike a balance. IF this is indeed the case... why change it. I know your trying to get the BOI to cover the financial libilities... IF you have the funds put back to hopefully fight off one lawsuit.... why not make sure its in an interest bering account and hope you dont have to use it and let it gain capital. Take whatever we can scrounge up in the form of contributions and put with it.

THEN in the event of a suit... figure out if there is enough in that fund to keep the BOI going of if you need to shut it down at that point.

Im hoping this is a possible way of doing things cause I fear that if the BOI goes 'pay to play" you will cut its knees out from under it.

just my thoughts... and please only take them as that... my thoughts. Hopefully they will help out though
 
Southern Wolf said:
Rich I have a question... and you dont have to answer it here... its just something to think about.

I believe you stated that the BOI's current form has been the best of both worlds as far as trying to strike a balance. IF this is indeed the case... why change it. I know your trying to get the BOI to cover the financial libilities... IF you have the funds put back to hopefully fight off one lawsuit.... why not make sure its in an interest bering account and hope you dont have to use it and let it gain capital. Take whatever we can scrounge up in the form of contributions and put with it.

THEN in the event of a suit... figure out if there is enough in that fund to keep the BOI going of if you need to shut it down at that point.

Im hoping this is a possible way of doing things cause I fear that if the BOI goes 'pay to play" you will cut its knees out from under it.

just my thoughts... and please only take them as that... my thoughts. Hopefully they will help out though
Click to expand...

Well to answer your question, if I were to decide that the BOI just cannot continue, the "change" would not be to continue the BOI, it would be merely to allow the BOI to continue solely for paid members for one year, to provide them the service they likely paid for with their paid membership, BEFORE the plug is pulled. The goal would not be to change the BOI to try to save it at all. The change would be to allow it to have a gentle death.

As for the lawsuit issue, yes, your thoughts do have merit, and I have been mulling this aspect over in my deliberations recently. Trust me, I am looking at this from every angle possible. It's not that I WANT to shut down the BOI at all, as I stated early on in this thread.
 
Thanks for the reply Rich....

IF my thoughts have merit and there is a POSSIBILITY of it working... then why do any changes at all right now (if my thoughts above would work). Why not wait until (god forbid) something happens... then make it 'pay for play' for that last year of existance? Why not give it a gental death once it is indeed on its last leg do to financial hardships?
 
Southern Wolf said:
Thanks for the reply Rich....

IF my thoughts have merit and there is a POSSIBILITY of it working... then why do any changes at all right now (if my thoughts above would work). Why not wait until (god forbid) something happens... then make it 'pay for play' for that last year of existance? Why not give it a gental death once it is indeed on its last leg do to financial hardships?
Click to expand...

If you were in my shoes, that is the way you would do it? You would be willing to go through the potential hassle of a lawsuit, and perhaps spend more money then you have squirreled away (taking funds from your retirement savings), simply for the sake of allowing someone to make their statements on your website? Actually, how many people really would be willing to do that? Especially when you are seeing evidence that most of the people really don't care either way about how much it would wind up costing ME as long as they get their bread and circuses. Seriously, what is in this for ME since so many people think I really SHOULD be doing this for free and get riled up at even the thought of me actually making money off of this site. I should take all the risk, and if there is any chance of a profit, then I'm the money grubbing asshole then? You would be aghast at the number of hatemails I get because yes, I have bought a couple of Corvettes with the money I have made at SerpenCo. Hell, I could have bought one every year just with the money I made selling surplus adults each year and yet people will claim I am raping the herp world because of whatever money THIS site is making. And yet many of those same people are trying like hell to make a profit out of selling their animals, like their pursuit of a profit from their efforts is all noble and lilly white, whereby any desires I might have to make a profit from my efforts here are instead dirty and self-serving. Well, yeah, I am just tired of that attitude from a lot of people. And I guess it does GRIPE me to think I am taking a lot of risk HERE for them. That I have been shouldering this risk for YEARS and getting mostly crapped on in return.

Hmm, probably a good thing that it isn't midnight on December 31 right at this moment..... Otherwise it would be bye-bye BOI.....
 
Rich.... IF... and thats a mighty big IF

IF I had enough already squirreled away to cover one suit... yeah I probably would.

Like you I am stubborn and hard headed (not meant to mean or anything). I believe it was you that stated if someone gives you an ultamatium that your just gonna dig your heals in and say ... go for it. Basically Im the same way.

Would I allow the BOI to get into my retirement savings. Heck no! If you dont already have enough set back for one suit... make it 'pay to play' and let it ride for a year then shut it down.

As to the folks gripin bout your car. They need to go find a source of milk for their cry baby butt. The way I look at it.. you worked your butt off with SerpenCo and if you go out and buy a private jet... its your money and you can do what you want with it... you earned it.
 
Southern Wolf said:
As to the folks gripin bout your car. They need to go find a source of milk for their cry baby butt. The way I look at it.. you worked your butt off with SerpenCo and if you go out and buy a private jet... its your money and you can do what you want with it... you earned it.
Click to expand...

What business is it of anyone as to what car you purchase,where you live,what you do with your money. Do all the other people on here get the 3rd degree on what they spend their money on? If they make a profit or have a loss, does anyone have the right to ask that? Of course not.
This is just like all the hate mail you get for any reason someone can drum up, it is not their business, period.
This forum can be a harsh one. Hard on you financially,time wise and emotionally. I hope you don't let these people bring you down Rich, that is what their intent is. All the badgering and hate mail....that is what they hope for. Maybe someone else can read your mail and fend off the idiots?

I know it is not that simple, I wish it was though. I know it also does not help in the threat of a lawsuit. Just wish there was something someone could say or do to help in this.:(
 
Rich,

The reasons you outlined are some of the reason that I was among those that suggested Pay for Play. I have no problem with people devoting time to a task and getting PAID for it. It's called FREE ENTERPRISE. Entrepreneurship is seeing a need, providing it, and getting paid to do so. If your vision (the need you are fulfilling) is necessary, people will pay for it and pay for it gladly.

I personally, in the beginning, wondered why you even continued to pour money into the forum, since it was obvious that so many people wanted a freebie and were willing to ride on the backs of those that were the contributors. Personally, I am not so self-sacrificing to people that are walking over me. You deserve a medal!

*ducking and running>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
dragonlvr64 said:
What business is it of anyone as to what car you purchase,where you live,what you do with your money. Do all the other people on here get the 3rd degree on what they spend their money on? If they make a profit or have a loss, does anyone have the right to ask that? Of course not.
This is just like all the hate mail you get for any reason someone can drum up, it is not their business, period.
This forum can be a harsh one. Hard on you financially,time wise and emotionally. I hope you don't let these people bring you down Rich, that is what their intent is. All the badgering and hate mail....that is what they hope for. Maybe someone else can read your mail and fend off the idiots?

I know it is not that simple, I wish it was though. I know it also does not help in the threat of a lawsuit. Just wish there was something someone could say or do to help in this.:(
Click to expand...

Well, one good thing about being retired is that I don't need to be worried in the slightest about offending potential customers if I ban a few cretins here and there simply because they rub me the wrong way.... :reddevil:
 
WebSlave said:
Well, one good thing about being retired is that I don't need to be worried in the slightest about offending potential customers if I ban a few cretins here and there simply because they rub me the wrong way.... :reddevil:
Click to expand...

Go for it!! :D I know a daily beatdown must suck.
If you ban some, might lower the amount of PM's you get! Can they still email you though if they are banned?
The thing is, you could buy 10 vettes a year,(maybe you should upgrade:D) live in a mansion, have a staff that takes care of you and all the different forums and eat BonBons on the couch, it is none of their business. If what they are paying for is here and working and is what they need, they should not have any issues what you do with YOUR money! Then you hit the spot where most of these people are not paying anyway, so they sure as hell have nothing to say about anything!
If you purchase something, you like it and are happy, it is not your concern that the company who sold it made money, the person who made it made money...ect... Not the business or concern of anyone. That is why people are in business. To MAKE money!!! :eek:

The people who care and support you wish there was something that could be done to help you. Take some volunteers and have them get all the hate mail and PM's and if there is one that might need your voice then you take over. But have someone else filter the crap out!

You might wish for that booze once this is all over! Big huge bottle of Excedrin too! Good luck with all this mess and your decision.
 
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