Ack! What is this?

[geckogrl6]

My ~3yr old M rainbow boa looks like he lost some scales with his last shed. He also has a sore or something, both on the top on his head. I will be making appt w/vet ASAP but I'd come on here for 2nd opinions anyway, so I'm getting those now. The brite white spots appear to be 2 face scales just missing, and the sore behind that I have been watching for awhile. He had like some sort of minor irritation there that previously just looked like he was rubbing or had sustained a very minor burn (he had been sitting under a uth). He just shed in the last 24 hours, and the minor irritation has opened. The white spots are brand new. Pics are a little fuzzy, I'm sorry, he wasnt too keen on staying still
He is kept in a 55 gal tank with a uth and heat lamp. hot spot ~85, cool side ~72, humidity 50-80, substrate cedar, been very healthy up til now. still eating well. I'd like to know what to do for supportive care until I can get him in to the herp vet please

 

[Madratter]

Cedar is toxic for snakes and it looks too wet. Take him off the cedar and dry it out a bit and the spots on his head should go away. Happened to my black blood when he spent too much time in his moss hide.

 

[Matt2979]

I really can't tell from the pics, but it looks similar to something that I went through with a couple of BP's that had too much humidity. Put some Neosporin (regular, not the pain-relief formula) on it until you can get to the vet. Best of luck with him, and please let us know what you find out!!

 

[geckogrl6]

Thanks guys! I thought it might be humidity-related myself. He has been sitting in his soak tank for days, which I thought nothing of until he shed and I found this. Is it worth a vet trip, or this is a case of altering my husbandry and some neosporin? And wtf is up with ppl telling me cedar is toxic for him? I'm pretty sure it was highly recommended by many boa owners here for its resistance to mold etc in high humidity. Whats up with the cedar? I switched to cedar probably a year ago, this is the first problem he's ever had. If he needs to come off of it, what should I use instead? Before the cedar he was on the coconut fluff stuff (bed-a-beast?)

 

[Matt2979]

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of a vet visit if they feel they even MIGHT need to go; however, with my BP's that I saw that, or at least a very similar, problem, I never took them to a vet. I used Neosporin, better ventilated their tubs (as that was the cause of my problem with higher than needed humidity), and it healed pretty quickly.

As far as bedding, I'd like to hear more about that, too. I'm not saying anything either way, as I became so confused about which was worse (seemed to hear something bad about all types) that I now only use newspaper. I'm sure that's no good for BRB's, but I only have BCI and BP's. In most cases I believe it's better, but sometimes (especially my bigger cages) I'd prefer something that I can easily scoop up.

 

[mysticdiva]

Here are a few things I found, just copied and pasted them from different sites. Hope it helps!

Cedar shavings should be avoided for health reasons. It is widely believed that the oils found within cedar shavings (and possibly pine shavings in general) have a harmful effect on snakes over time. That’s reason enough to avoid them. Aspen shavings good … cedar and pine shavings bad.

Aspen wood shavings provide an excellent, absorbent choice for your rainbow boa as well. Be sure to stay away from cedar or pine shavings as these can cause health problems for your rainbow boa.

The bedding of choice for keeping rainbow boas should be one that retains moisture and promotes humidity within the enclosure. Highly recommended are cypress mulch, orchid bark, and pulverized coconut husk products such as plantation soil. Additionally, clumps of sphagnum moss are recommended as they not only add to the naturalistic feel of the enclosure but serve as a great source of added humidity when misted regularly.

 

[geckogrl6]

OK, maybe it's cypress he's on that was recommended here, not cedar. In any case, I will re-evaluate how he is kept, and will start conservative treatment w/neosporin. If it's not improving with that and my husbandry changes, I will take him in. Or if his appetite diminishes. I was figuring that it was a case of too wet, esp as he spent so much time soaking immediately beforehand. I switched from the coconut stuff as it would get mold too easily.

 

[RedTailedDexter]

Sorry I cannot be of much help since is not something I have experience with but keep us updated on how things go. Hopefully it stays an easy at-home fix.

 

[Snakesitter]

Hi Lisa, your Brazilian looks like a gorgeous fellow!

I realize this runs contrary to what has been said above, but I keep over 20 of these snakes. If he’s having shed problems, humidity is usually too *low* -- not too high! Adult Brazilians require humidity of at least 80% in order to shed properly. I purchased a baby several years back who had suffered the exact same event: lost a head scale or two due to a low humidity shed. He recovered fine, and the injury is now undetectable.

How are you controlling humidity overall in your viv? Classic Brazilian setups are an unusual marriage of humidity boosters inside the viv (large low flat waterbowl partly placed over the heat, moisture-retaining substrate, damp moss hide, etc.) and carefully limiting air exchange with the outside world (to keep that precious humidity inside). Heat bulbs are not the best choice, as they tend to dry the air out. Also, it looks like a glass tank, what do you use for a top?

As for soaking, Brazilians do it all the time -- after eating, for fun, and especially before a shed. I have one baby that’s hogged her waterdish for several days straight now (she’s due to shed shortly).

I agree with Kristen about the cedar. I’ve read too many cautions against it to take the topic lightly. Just to be safe, I’d pull it and replace with another type of humidity-tolerant shaving.

Matthew is right about the neosporin, that stuff works wonders on small wounds. Just dab a bit onto his head every now and then.

My final concern would be the white spots. If he’s rubbing up against something or hogging a too-hot heat source, it could get even worse. Can you check on him at night to see what it might be? Also, can you block off access to under the UTH? (Also, just to put this out there, are you sure those are not fungal? *Not* trying to scare you, but it is hard to tell from the picture.)

The fact he is eating is a great sign.

I hope this helps,

 

[geckogrl6]

Yes, I am quite familiar with neosporin- that stuff has worked very well for me when my leos get fight or breeding wounds. LOVE IT! The two white spots on the head are quite delineated, no fuzz or anything, I'm more concerned about the open wound behind it, which has fuzzy borders. I will probably switch him to an aspen/coconut mix. He is kept in a 45 gal high tank (1w x 2h x 3L ft I think). 2/3 of the top is covered with glass and taut plastic wrap to keep humidity in, and the shed he just took appears to be in one or maybe 2 pieces, so I don't think the humidity is too low. Inside the 45 was a 5 gal tank on bricks with a UTH under it, and of course he chose to squeeze Under the 5 gal tank. When I noticed him sitting under there, I turned off that UTH on the 5 gal, to avoid burns (as much as he LOVES heated soak tubs). There is still heat sources of a side-mounted UTH and a red bulb lamp in the 45 gal, the lamp sits on the screen top on the 1/3 of the tank which is not covered.
He is temporarily in a 20 gal while I make changes to his usual tank.
I have some concerns about using the neosporin in such a humid environment, and it rubbing/sliding/dripping to an eye or nostril. This is not a concern I have with my 40% humidity leos. I have NEVER had to restrain him before- that will be a first for me if necc. to treat this head problem. Hope he maintains his shy temperment after that kind of treatment lol. thankfully they have short memories lol.

 

[geckogrl6]

Thank you Cliff- it can be hard sometimes to find ppl with substantial, long-range experience with BRBs. I am VERY thankful that he has, in his 3 years or so with me, never required any treatment or vet care (until now). He is a gorgeous guy, and his temperment is so shy, it's adorable. When he was a baby he would crawl into a ball, and try to hide his head in his body (see avatar pic). He still does that sometimes when I go to pick him up, although it's not nearly as cute now lol. I should be swapping the substrate in the big tank tonight or tomm, and will try to take some better pics then. The guy pounds any rodent put in front of him, although I swear his fav is live rats, I keep the live feedings to a minimum. He seems put off when I offer mice. Still current on feedings, average 1 or 2 small rats/mice every 7-14 days. I would like to breed him eventually, he's kept so much color, and I'm having a hard time finding a female with nice bright color. Will keep you all updated, thanks so much for helping out, I love fauna- by far the best herp ppl I've found thus far, and I've kept herps for 15+ years

 

[Snakesitter]

Thank you Cliff- it can be hard sometimes to find ppl with substantial, long-range experience with BRBs.

Any time; always happy to help with this species!

The two white spots on the head are quite delineated, no fuzz or anything

Well, that probably rules out fungus, which is good!

I have some concerns about using the neosporin in such a humid environment, and it rubbing/sliding/dripping to an eye or nostril.

I’ve only used it once on a Brazilian. A bigger worry for me was/is it getting rubbed off on their moss in the moist hide. Too bad we can’t make them wear little bandages. ;-) My advice: take him out, dry the area, and apply, then hold him for a few minutes aferward to let it "set" as much as it can. It's about the best you can do....

He is kept in a 45 gal high tank (1w x 2h x 3L ft I think). 2/3 of the top is covered with glass and taut plastic wrap…the lamp sits on the screen top on the 1/3 of the tank which is not covered.

So there’s a one foot by one foot opening? That’s more ventilation than most of the experts recommend…but if it’s working for you (you said his last shed was fine), go with it I guess!

When he was a baby he would crawl into a ball, and try to hide his head in his body (see avatar pic).

I’ve raised several babies that did that. You’re right, it’s very cute. Most of them outgrow it, but I have one juvenile that still thinks it’s her best defense.

The guy pounds any rodent put in front of him, although I swear his fav is live rats, I keep the live feedings to a minimum. He seems put off when I offer mice.

Interesting…I have mostly the opposite issue. I had to break down and offer live mice after one girl refused her rat four feedings in a row (so, six weeks with no food). Then again, I try to feed rats exclusively, so wouldn’t have had the opportunity to notice any mouse-haters.

I'm having a hard time finding a female with nice bright color.

That’s not unusual with Brazilians. The males tend to be the standouts in most litters. It’s only compounded by the fact that people tend to hold onto their good females.

BTW, I see you’re in Baltimore. I went to school there. Good area.

Best of luck,

 

[geckogrl6]

UPDATE
He is looking better already! The open wound on his head got a 1st dose of neosporin today, and it already looks better. Seems to be scabbing up, and closing on its own for the most part. I took Cliff's advice, and handled him for awhile tonight to let the neo actually soak in. This is one area where his shyness is a problem lol, as he always makes for the nearest dark hole/cave, and in the process tends to rub the top of his head on the blanket or whatever he's diving Under lol. Gave it 2 dabs, and waited some time for the 1st to soak in before hitting it a 2nd time and putting him back in the big tank for the time being. I haven't swapped the substrate yet, will do that following his next feed, which should be tommorrow- he's Ready for his post-shed meal! He is very sad without his soak tub, is currently making an inventory of the big tank wondering where all the water went lol. I am giving the existing substrate a chance to dry out some before I let him soak again. I'm sure soaking with neo on your head is no good. No restraint required, love my shy guy!
Cliff- it is about a foot square opening, but most of that is covered by the 10" dome lamp. How long will it take to replace the 2 missing scales on the nose?

 

[Helenthereef]

A bigger worry for me was/is it getting rubbed off on their moss in the moist hide. Too bad we can’t make them wear little bandages.

I haven't tried this on snakes, so it's an untried idea from left-field, but I live in the tropics and we use old-fashioned antibiotic POWDER rather than cream or ointment on open wet wounds and sores - it puffs on like talcum powder, sticks to and helps dries the wound and blows off the rest of the skin.

I have to no idea if you can still get this in the USA, but it's an idea that someone might like to try out sometime...

 

[Snakesitter]

Really glad to hear he's looking better, Lisa!!!

Scabbing up and closing on its own is what has happened in my case, with the wound disappearing after a few sheds.

Understood on the opening.

Is that really missing scales on he nose? It’s difficult to tell if the white matches up with the scale outlines in the picture -- although it is clear it is definitely not fungus. I’ve gotten mixed answers on scale regrowth: some say it happens very slowly, others that it does not happen at all. My Brazilian was a very young baby when he lost his (literally, his first or second shed), so his had wholly healed before he was one. I’m not as sure about an older animal, sorry. Anyone else want to take a crack at this one?

@ Helen: really cool idea, but rainbows are a species I'd be hesitant to try it with, owing to their love of soaking and drinking. A powder would likely be dispersed into water over the course of a several-hour soak, and then drunk (albeit in very dilute form). Great idea for non-Brazilians though. What brand name do you use?

 

[Helenthereef]

@ Helen: really cool idea, but rainbows are a species I'd be hesitant to try it with, owing to their love of soaking and drinking. A powder would likely be dispersed into water over the course of a several-hour soak, and then drunk (albeit in very dilute form). Great idea for non-Brazilians though. What brand name do you use?

Good point. Not sure of the brand name - by "someone's" law I seem to be out at the moment - but it's nothing specific, I just go to any local pharmacy and ask for antibiotic powder (it also has the advantage of being a lot cheaper than A/b cream - at least where I am)

 

[geckogrl6]

Helen- nice to see you're still around, I've been absent from fauna too long lol. The powder is a nice idea, I may actually try it for my leos, who can lick off the cream. For the BRB, it's such a small spot that it seems to be ok for me to dab and then just handle him long enough for some to sink in. I'm not applying it daily either, although maybe I should. I still have the shed around (it's complete in his soaking tub) so I will try to pull that out and get a good pic of what the nose/head shed looks like. They appear to be full scales missing. I put him back in the big tank last night after giving it a spot cleaning. He had poo'ed, which is a little strange and may in fact be diarrhea, as he poo'ed as well with the shed, and hadn't eaten yet. I offered him a f/t small rat last night which he took w/o problem, as usual. I gave him a new clean soak tub, and he's been in it pretty much since. I have noticed over the past week or two that he was more active than usual, which I initially attributed to the arrival of spring here. Coupled with the head problems, the excess poo has got me leaning toward a vet visit. I will be making a decision on that by Monday I think. If he poos a 3rd time in <10 days, he's going in.

 

[geckogrl6]

Upon super-close inspection of the head shed, it appears Cherry and I are heading to Harford County next week for some cold weather, manhandling, and likely, meds. Poor guy, he's never been restrained in his life, and he's been so cranky and active lately, the vet will love meeting him!
12.1 megapixels, and this was the best I could get! No pun intended, but if the pics below shed any light on possible diagnosis and/or questions to ask the vet, please share!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Nothing wrong with using cypress. Cedar is toxic though, it causes respiratory distress over time.

Picture almost looks like a shed scab. ??? I'm sure it will heal about the same as one with a few sheds and proper environment.

 

[geckogrl6]

Thanks Richard- it is cypress he is on, not cedar- I misspoke (typed). I agree that all 3 spots look like scabs that shed, but the front 2 spots were not apparent at all before this last shed, and they appear different than the back one, which is clearly an open wound (now scabbing). The rear spot, which is really more of a slit, I had been watching as he did have a minor spot of irritation there for awhile. It did not open until this last shed. In any case, I am calling the vet tomm. I may very well be posting here later for help wrangling him to administer treatment as directed by vet. As a general rule, I don't restrain my animals unless absolutely necessary, and to date I've been fortunate to never have had to restrain a snake. I have never dealt with anything like this problem before, so I'm a little nervous about what the vet might say, but he needs to go, no? Just wish it were warmer out for the trip and praying its a simple fix