Adam at Millenium Morphs...give me my money

[Rebel Dragons]

If these three things are not 100% accurate please explain to me where I am still at fault..........

No one is at fault.

The only issue I see here anymore is that you are standing behind your TOS and a half verbal, half email contract. I appreciate that, but in long run you owe Matt a large amount of money. You yourself said you have it to refund. If your not going to be in serious financial strain by sending it, just cut your losses and move on.

Delaying the refund due to sticking to your TOS is admirable. However in this situation it seems that you just may be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[animaladventure2000]

From : info@millenniummorphs
Sent : Tuesday, August 9, 2005 5:20 PM
To : Matthew Crabe'
Subject : RE: Message about: *ADULT BOA MORPHS*

| | | Inbox


I think it should be cleared. I will be sending it soon. I will let you know. Please send me you shipping info. Thank you



-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Crabe [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Shipping of my DH sunglow


Hi Adam,

I emailed quite a while ago to inquire about when you would ship my adult female dh sunglow but haven't heard back. She has been paid off for quite a while now, and I would like to get her here and into quarantine so I can breed her this year. Please contact me so we can arrange shipping soon.

Thanks,

Matt Crabe

(925) 212-1039

on Aug the 9 you said the check should have cleared and you would ship soon that was before daytona then sept 1 matt send you another e-mail which was a week after daytona and ask you about shipping again and even gives you his # to help you out and set up shipping

From : info@millenniummorphs
Sent : Thursday, September 15, 2005 6:28 AM
To : 'Matthew Crabe'
Subject : RE: Shipping of my DH sunglow

| | | Inbox


Matt, sorry I was out of town again....I will ship the animal Monday........If that is OK with you .....My email was down and I just am getting the emails now. Call me if you need me ...631-831-0078...My phone will be on and I should have service...Thank you


then 14 days later you say you will ship on Monday you don't say call or e-mail you just say if that is OK and give your phone # as if to imply that if it is not OK call. Which in Matt's e-mail 0n the 20 th he says he tried to call and you didn't answer so I think he has more than done his part you need to look at it from Matt point and do the right thing. You have repeatedly said one thing and done the other so say it this time and send the money

Brian Layell

 

[shrap]

1) You bring up that you waited months for the money. That was not a favor; that was part of the negotiation of the deal. The buyer kept up his end. Your comments about being paid "in dribs and drabs" and your "kindness" in accepting a payment plan are condescending and irrelevant. He negotiated a payment plan, which you accepted. It's business. If you indeed had the animal sold 10x over for cash, then question your business decision, but don't try to put it off that you're being kind hearted to the buyer.

2) You admit that you did not check your email for his confirmation of shipping approval, then turn around and try to blame the lack of shipping on not having that confirmation.

3) Are you saying that from July 27 (when it shows the check was CASHED) until September 1 you were unable to ship any animals?

Summed up my feelings on the matter almost completely.

Adam, you dropped the ball on this one. Poor communication and not reading your emails for one. Then acting like it is the buyers fault when you admit you did not even check to see if he emailed you confirmation or not.

And for 2, anyone in their right mind would take "after Daytona" as meaning the WEEK after Daytona. Two at MOST. Not a month, or two months or when ever it suited you after Daytona. How about Fall 2007???

Like I said, communication, or lack there of, is the real problem here, but step up and take some responsibility for your own actions.... or in this case, inactions.

 

[ms_terese]

3) Are you saying that from July 27 (when it shows the check was CASHED) until September 1 you were unable to ship any animals?

My bad, that should have been from July 27 to September 19, not September 1.

 

[Greg Riso]

Why Should Matt Have To Wait?

Adam, Your terms of sale don't mean squat if you yourself were the cause of delay and the customer got frustrated from hearing lame excuses for the delays, poor to nonexistent communication, and no animal even after you agreed to ship. You say you did not want to ship because you did not hear back concerning confirmation of shipping address, etc. yet you didn't even bother to check your e-mail??? Excuse me, but if I were in your situation that's the first place I would have looked. Don't you think his letter requesting tracking information kind of says it all? You also state you can be reached by phone yet according to Matt you were not reachable.
Your whole premise for not returning the money at this point (THAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE) is because Matt requested a refund and this is against your TOS. Tell me something please. Can you show me where in your TOS it says after receiving FULL PAYMENT you will ship an animal IF AND WHENEVER YOU FEEL LIKE GETTING AROUND TO IT?
Matt had already wasted a day off from work because you didn't ship after a long time putting it off and you expected him to just wait for the next excuse? I think if you were in his shoes you'd have been here at the BOI way before Matt IMHO. Your lack of consideration with your, I'll ship whenever I can get around to it attitude is pathetic. When you failed to ship as promised after SO MANY DELAYS I'd have been thrown in the towel on the deal as well.
My personal opinion is you don't have the money or the snake to sell either at this point and are just stalling for time until you can raise the funds. Forget your god forsaken terms of sale and save your business by sending Matt the money! He's done everything by the numbers and it is YOU THAT HAS BLOWN THE DEAL. If your TOS mean more than your reputation I think you had best consider getting out of business because it seems you sure as hell don't have a clue that you're ruining it right now.
Matt did the right thing by coming here because even with your situation in the spotlight you're still using the same delay tactics you've used all along.
I strongly suggest you eat your sacred tOS and send Matt his money immediately. You say you have it. I say you don't. Prove me wrong right now or everyone that reads this thread prior to doing business with you is going to run the other direction. Get your priorities together dude and do the right thing.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Can someone send me the email that he sent to me that had his shipping address and confirmation that Monday was a good time to ship......I did not hear from him and felt uncomfortable shipping an animal that I was responsible for without knowing I was shipping to the right address where he would be.......This is why I did not ship out on Monday like agreed upon. Then when he flipped out and sent that email stating he wanted a refund , I spoke to him and told him I would ship out and he would have it the VERY NEXT MORNING..........HE TURNED DOWN MY OFFER. He demanded cash back. I told him the only way I can refund your cash is if I put the animal up for sale again and sell it. Then at that point I will send you the money..............

HE AGREED.............THATS THE CONTRACT

All the emails are in order in the 1st post. It's a long read...but as far as I know it's all there.

I would not have felt right shipping if I hadn't heard from a buyer either...but that's not really at issue. What is at issue is that you said you would ship after Daytona, and you didn't. Even though there wasn't a set date, the majority of people will assume "after Daytona" means right after Daytona. Months later with little communication of your side is still "after Dayton"...but I'm confused as to why you think it's acceptable. That would put most people's patience at an end. Then, when you do FINALLY say you'll ship, and he tries several way to contact you and fails because you don't check your messages, he did what a good buyer/herper would do - he took off time to be sure that he was home. When no animal arrived that was the last straw - again, I'm surprised this comes as a surprise to you. Why doesn't he want the snake? Because he's waited far too long for it, and he can't use it for this breeding season now. If he had agreed to you shipping the next day, I'm sure he would have had to to even more time off of work, which isn't cool in anyone's book.

He has been more than patient in both waiting for you to ship, and waiting for you to refund - which you agreed to! Not ONE place does it say you must sell the animal before you refund. You simply mention the animal is back on the market, and if you do well selling you'll compensate him for his missed work.

It sounds as if you still intend to withhold the refund until the animal is sold (which there is no contract agreed to in this case). Bad move...really bad move. You have an opportunity to do the right thing right now, and still walk out clean. No one has painted you a bad guy yet - we're all trying to reason with you. BUT...if you continue with your course of action, people are going to start getting tired of waiting. When that happens, it can get ugly quick. All cards are in your hands - his money, the snake that is now more valuable than when originally sold, and the ability to refund his money NOW and not later. I would not want my own business to go down because of something like this - something you have the chance to change.

 

[ms_terese]

Will someone please provide a link to the advertisement where this animal is currently listed for sale?

 

[Greg Riso]

Truth is Therese

to answer your question I don't think Adam has gotten around to posting it yet but he promises he will soon. And for the record, one of us is getting hostile. Guess who? Matt deserves his money back ASAP. Until he receives it there will be no happy ending here. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening because the money isn't there to send. Oh yeah, sorry I forgot. It's due to the etched in stone TOS why the money can't be returned. It's simply impossible you see.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

I don't know where it is, but I can tell you where it isn't. I didn't see any snakes of that description on his website.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

to answer your question I don't think Adam has gotten around to posting it yet but he promises he will soon. And for the record, one of us is getting hostile. Guess who? Matt deserves his money back ASAP. Until he receives it there will be no happy ending here. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening because the money isn't there to send. Oh yeah, sorry I forgot. It's due to the etched in stone TOS why the money can't be returned. It's simply impossible you see.

Unfortunately it seems as if that may be true. No one in their right mind would deny sending the refund to end an ordeal like this if they were able. Matt is entitled to it and should have had it weeks ago.

If his business reputation is as important to him as he claims. He would cut a check and have it out in todays mail. Frankly I'm starting to think he does not have the money and is just ashamed to admit he messed up.

 

[ms_terese]

Matthew, do you have any pics of this animal?

 

[Griz]

It would appear that Adam's TOS also includes the following verbage:

5) Regardless of whether it is Millennium Morphs fault, we will stick to all of our TOS even if it's to the detriment of the customer or Millennium Morphs reputation."

Adam, you clearly state that you have the money to pay him yet you have chosen to remain on your soapbox, despite the fact that this is to your detriment, and not reimburse him for something that was clearly more your fault then his. Your stance does 2 things for me:

1) It tells me that you do not have the money on hand. Nobody in their right mind would take the stance you are taking if they had the money in hand.

2) It will make me think twice before dealing with you on an animal. You are trying to find every loophole etc to either get out of this situation or to place blame on the buyer. To think, that a simple refund of his money could have turned your first BOI Bad Guy thread into a "Hey, he's a stand up guy" thread.

And that is a pity.

Griz

 

[Rockford]

If money is no issue and you are going to sell the animal anyway then refund Matt his money now!!! What if the animal dies right now are you going to keep his money? If not just pretend it's dead and send him his dough.

I know Matt personally and he is a good guy. In my opinion he has been way more patient than I or anyone else would be.

Your lack of communication and being "busy" is no excuse.

A refund is in order ASAP.........

 

[shrap]

2) It will make me think twice before dealing with you on an animal.

Griz

Oh it is past that stage for me. It is now in the "will not even consider dealing with them on an animal and will tell anyone that asks about them to avoid them like the plague" stage.

 

[Bighaze]

I don't post here much, but I have to say something, most have already said it but for some reason I want to say it to.

Your TOS is a crock!!!!! from the way you are wording it, again and again, if I were to send you the cash for a snake, and then you just didn't want to ship it, for what ever reason, all I could get back is a store credit? That my friend is on the verge of SCAMMING!!!!!! And it looks as though that is what you are doing here and now. You got your money on time, yet for what ever reasons( you still have not given any) you have not shipped. That is all on you. If it was a case where it was too hot/cold, you just feed and want to wait a few days, something like that, then you would be in the right. But you just did not feel like it, you were paid to ship, that should come before any new deals, or anything else thats made you so busy.

You said you have the money to send, yet you want to make him wait? Why?

You keep saying your TOS this or your TOS that, YOUR TOS MEAN NOTHEN WHEN YOUR THE ONE THAT WOULD NOT SHIP!!!!!!!!!

Just send the money today if you have it, it is the right thing to do. To make him wait longer WILL make you look like a ........................

 

[liquidleaf]

I agree. You had an agreement with your customer, however, the details of the agreement were somewhat vague. In any event, Matt paid well before the agreed timeframe, and had to wait a LONG time for you to ship. YOUR communication was vague and imprecise. You could have shipped the animal when it was paid off, however YOUR schedule prevented it. You inconvenienced your customer. He was very understanding and accomodating, until another poorly worded communication implied you would ship the animal, and he stayed home from work.

You are hiding behind your terms of service now. This is a higher-dollar animal that was paid off months ago. YOU dropped the ball by delaying shipping and not giving your customer clear information. This is a customer service issue. You inconvenienced your customer, so make it right! Unless poor communication and delayed shipping are part of your normal "terms".....

If you don't refund the money, even if it is against your normal policy, you are giving the clear impression to all of us that while YOU expect the customer to hold to YOUR expectations, you are fine with clearly disappointing your customer's expectations.

I hate to use a cliche, but come on, even if it's not always the case, "the customer is always right" goes a long way towards a good customer service attitude. YOU as the seller clearly could have been a lot more clear, helpful and prompt, and it is your responsibility to do everything reasonably possible to make your customer happy. This transaction has gone far from smooth, bending your terms to right your delays would be the stand up thing to do.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

As i indicated earlier,

contact the credit card company and file for a chargeback on the amount that was sent to him. Considering that you received nothing, nothing can be disputed other than the fact that you paid in advance and have nothing to show for it. Secondly, sue him for the balance.

Apparently, this person is using a term of service that is pliable enough to cover any contingency including but not limited to taking peoples money , not shipping, and justifying it.

This is a person, whom I am glad has been brought to the attention of the BOI is at the very least unconcerned about his own future business activities . Very poor business ethics. In the BOIs infinite wisdom we will not forget his name when we search for information about prior dealings.

 

[SPJ]

If you have his money.......refund it.

If you spent it.......admit it.

So far it appears that you dropped the ball and are using your TOS to blame the customer.

Not a good business move.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Adam, you seem to be losing the debate ...

Just got caught up on this thread, and have to agree with many good points here made by those in support of Matt, or in deference to you Adam. My own leanings were running against your position Adam, but this particular section of one of your earlier explanations iced the deal:

I see how some of you are looking at the situation, but what everybody is missing is that Matt and I AGREED that we would wait to ship after Daytona. That is what we did.....Because we did not specify exactly how long after Daytona, we are falling into a problem where people are thinking I did not ship quickly enough. Matt made it seem like there was no rush to get the animal throughout the entire deal. This is what everybody can not see.

I think that this entire issue, in its simplest form, would have been acceptable, ie you were tardy on shipping, a little weak on communication, and not in a postition to refund until you resold the animal. Not great, but with a good apology or two, it probably would have gotten you by. But adding details such as (my paraphrasing) "being able to refund now, but refusing to do so on principal", and using other vagueries as excuses, doesn't hold much water here, as stated by many. Combined with summing up those who don't agree with you as having a vision impairmment, and possibly a flaw in logic assimilation, is not a recommended way to cut your losses and minimize the damage. Back in the "wonder years", I think that the first rule of first aid, as I was taught in Boy Scouts, was to "stop the bleeding". Still works.

 

[Griz]

Oh it is past that stage for me. It is now in the "will not even consider dealing with them on an animal and will tell anyone that asks about them to avoid them like the plague" stage.

I stand corrected. The more I think about this the more I tend to agree with you. What a shame too.

Griz