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Bad Guy Adam Wysocki - No response

lillyorchid said:
... I do hope Adam and Andrew can come to a point to make things right on both ends with each other and from talking to Adam today, he wants to pay back Andrew and is willing to do so.
Click to expand...

Jamie... I think this is the part we are all having a hard time swollowing.

Adam wants to pay Andrew back the money he is owed... but he has not done it yet? Why not?

He has time to go to shows, he has time to raise funds for this new project... but not time to pay back Andrew?

Sorry... something just doesnt smell right here. You can have all the personal problems in the world... but if your doing shows... then there is no way you will make me believe you dont have time to fix your business problems.
 
Southern Wolf said:
Jamie... I think this is the part we are all having a hard time swollowing.

Adam wants to pay Andrew back the money he is owed... but he has not done it yet? Why not?

He has time to go to shows, he has time to raise funds for this new project... but not time to pay back Andrew?

Sorry... something just doesnt smell right here. You can have all the personal problems in the world... but if your doing shows... then there is no way you will make me believe you dont have time to fix your business problems.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know any of the intimate details of their arrangement or any debt that is owed. It would be great if the proof could be posted up so we know the timeline and can get a true idea of what the scope of this is. This would be mandatory in any other BOI thread but for some reason it isn't here.

Why isn't Andrew posting proof? Is there something he doesn't want us to know about the timeline?

This has been going on since 2008 so there may be more than meets the eye.
 
There is no doubt in my mind there is more than meets the eye.

Right now I am going off of Adam saying he wants to repay the debt... but hasn't. I'll be honest... I dont care if its $50 or $5000.... as a breeder... if your customer is owed that money... repay it.
 
jglass38 said:
Why isn't Andrew posting proof?
Click to expand...

Why does Adam have time to attend a rinky-dink show, but doesn't have time to address the accusations made by Andrew?

See, it goes both ways. ;)




Andrew, start posting emails otherwise this is just going to continue going round and round and round.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Why does Adam have time to attend a rinky-dink show, but doesn't have time to address the accusations made by Andrew?

See, it goes both ways. ;)




Andrew, start posting emails otherwise this is just going to continue going round and round and round.
Click to expand...

Actually, no it doesn't go both ways. The burden of proof in the BOI is on the accuser. That is indisputable. Regardless of what YOU want Adam to do, he has nothing yet to defend himself against because Andrew hasn't been back to post the proof. Get it now? :rolleyes:
 
Adam admitted to owing Andrew a debt. While the specifics weren't posted by either party in a format that could be considered verifiable...Adam is not denying he owes $5,000 from 2 1/2 years ago. He claims "personal family issues" being the reason for no one being able to get a hold of him, but he has time to go to a show that brings in less then 200 people through the door. You really see nothing wrong with that?
 
I too would like to see the proof over here on the BOI.... but in my thought process... I also have to take into concideration what has been posted elsewhere. Between that and the fact that Adam admitted he needs to pay Andrew back is enough for me.

Jaimie you can defend Adam all you want.. .but the fact is he admitted he needed to pay Andrew back. The actual amount is irrelavent at this time.... (thinking maybe it wasnt the full 5k.. .dunno)
 
Andrew - post your proof.

The only reason you have defensible position is because Adam has admitted some sort of debt owed to you in several other forums.

You claimed you had e-mails and other records edifying your position - post them up now.
 
I would like to see the timeline. Here's a scenario. Maybe Adam made a deal to pay him back, paid 50% in March and something happened that kept the remainder from being paid. It looks like there have been emails from Adam to him as recently as last week. I am just making this up but hopefully you get the drift. I want to know the details too so maybe Andrew would be so kind as to post them up. I can guarantee the money isn't owed from 2.5 years ago. If you know anything about the CITES process, it can take a long time, especially if it needed to be redone multiple times. I am sure if the money was owed from 2.5 years ago we would have heard about this long ago.
 
jglass38 said:
I would like to see the timeline. Here's a scenario. Maybe Adam made a deal to pay him back, paid 50% in March and something happened that kept the remainder from being paid. It looks like there have been emails from Adam to him as recently as last week. I am just making this up but hopefully you get the drift. I want to know the details too so maybe Andrew would be so kind as to post them up. I can guarantee the money isn't owed from 2.5 years ago. If you know anything about the CITES process, it can take a long time, especially if it needed to be redone multiple times. I am sure if the money was owed from 2.5 years ago we would have heard about this long ago.
Click to expand...

Personally, as a breeder and customer, I don't care HOW long the money has been owed. The fact that it is owed and has not been addressed speaks volumes to the astute readers.

As does the fact that someone that owes debts would be involved in any kind of contribution receivorship or process....

IMO, if one can't handle the small debts that are a part of business, they honestly have no business being involved in anything that may will involve large sums of money.:ack2:
 
deborahbroadus said:
Personally, as a breeder and customer, I don't care HOW long the money has been owed. The fact that it is owed and has not been addressed speaks volumes to the astute readers.

As does the fact that someone that owes debts would be involved in any kind of contribution receivorship or process....

IMO, if one can't handle the small debts that are a part of business, they honestly have no business being involved in anything that may will involve large sums of money.:ack2:
Click to expand...

Deb,

Let's try to keep the preaching to a minimum. First, you just assume that it has not been addressed. We all know what happens when you ASSume, right? :rofl: Also, can people please stop bring Natpet into this and basically accusing Adam of misusing funds? Unless you have some knowledge that others don't. Back to the topic, I want to see proof and a timeline. Until then there is no case for the BOI zealots to consider and weigh judgment on.
 
Jamie... it is my understanding (so correct me if Im wrong)... that Adam has shut down 8Ball and started Natpet. In my view... it looks like he left one business ventrue for another one. There is nothing wrong with that... but if your last business venture has debts owed... then those need to be taken care of BEFORE you get too deep in your new venture.

I have always thought of Adam as one of the good guys... and quite frankly I dont like the info being presented here. But as long as he admits he has a debt to be paid... and then doesnt pay it... in my mind... that is a bad guy.
 
This has been going on long enough I don't know the guy or anything but this is aggravating me now just reading this garbage.I feel bad for the person who has had to deal with this guy.This is actually not the only negative post about this guy either.He "Used" to be a good guy! I can understand that, but when do you start not being a good guy? Does he need to owe a couple more people thousands of dollars and sit on it for a few years???I don't get it people are defending him,that's great,but as I see it this guy is low and I certainly would not do business with him or any of his businesses.Thats what they do, most likely people change business or name because of some legal trouble or similar issue.Stop defending this creep!He did wrong, it is what it is.Pay the debt and contact the person you owe for crying out loud,this is so unreal I cant even fathom why anyone would put up with this or defend this behavior.Crazy!Simple as that!
 
WillArt said:
This has been going on long enough I don't know the guy or anything but this is aggravating me now just reading this garbage.I feel bad for the person who has had to deal with this guy.This is actually not the only negative post about this guy either.He "Used" to be a good guy! I can understand that, but when do you start not being a good guy? Does he need to owe a couple more people thousands of dollars and sit on it for a few years???I don't get it people are defending him,that's great,but as I see it this guy is low and I certainly would not do business with him or any of his businesses.Thats what they do, most likely people change business or name because of some legal trouble or similar issue.Stop defending this creep!He did wrong, it is what it is.Pay the debt and contact the person you owe for crying out loud,this is so unreal I cant even fathom why anyone would put up with this or defend this behavior.Crazy!Simple as that!
Click to expand...
I have to ask how you know that Adam hasn't contacted this person. Just because you didn't read about it on the BOI doesn't mean it's not happening. I'd like to see some actual proof from the OP as well as emails including emails since this thread has started. People are ready to hang Adam, but there have been no details posted here at all. As has been said there's two sides of it and the accuser hasn't even really posted his.
Personally I'm hoping this all gets resolved quickly as I know Adam to be a good guy.
 
The OP has ignored this post for several days ever since he was (repeatedly) asked to post proof of his allegations. I don't know anyone involved so I have no personal bias but I'm starting to feel like he doesn't have the proof he claimed to have.. Wouldn't it be a shame if all this suspicion was totally unfounded? Granted I still feel Adams lack of a response is making him look very guilty.

Mark
 
Regardless of the proof here on the BOI, Adam has admitted to owing Andrew in another forum.

Also, Allison per personal communincation with Adam at the Maryland show post #117) openely admitted to owing the money and wanting to do so, yet has not.

Besides seeing it in print, what else could you want.

The way I see it, what better way to get away with something then to openly admit your wrong doing, do nothing about it, and still have people defend you.

Adam, please do the right thing and get this resolved
 
As said in previous post, he has emailed me since this thread was started and has offered to:

A. Meet me half way between here and his place.
B. Meet me at the Hamburg show.
C. Wait until the weather is not so dang hot and ship.

At this point, I have chosen option C.
In addition, he has waived the last payment. I still trust Adam and think he is a good guy who just has alot of crap on his plate right now that may be the root of these decisions. Those who know Adam know this is not who he is. As for Nat Pet, he is stepping down and handing the reins over to others. As much effort as he has put forth in saving our hobby, I for one am going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

For those who are demanding proof, most of my communication with Adam has been by phone. Here is a screenshot of the payments that have been sent.

Adam.jpg
 
Ingrid, I'm glad he's gonna take care of you. That sounds like the Adam I know and I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the animal you receive.
 
jntreptiles said:
Regardless of the proof here on the BOI, Adam has admitted to owing Andrew in another forum.

Also, Allison per personal communincation with Adam at the Maryland show post #117) openely admitted to owing the money and wanting to do so, yet has not.

Besides seeing it in print, what else could you want.

The way I see it, what better way to get away with something then to openly admit your wrong doing, do nothing about it, and still have people defend you.

Adam, please do the right thing and get this resolved
Click to expand...

The problem is we have no way of knowing what is holding up the payment. It could be the OP saying one thing here on the forums and then making completely different arrangements with Adam. No one knows for sure except those two, Adam hasn't addressed any of the allegations, other than a vague reference in a post that pre-dates this thread on another site. The Original poster hasn't chosen to show any proof to his claims, time line, or correspondence between himself and Adam, even though he stated he was willing and able to do so. For all we know every time He and Adam worked out an arrangement the OP changed his mind and wanted something else, wouldn't be the first time that has happened to any number of sellers. There hasn't been enough info posted or proven one way or the other to say if one or both of them are at fault here; not that that has stopped many from calling for Adam's head. If it weren't for the fact that some people were jealous of Adams early success and/or have their own agendas to further, then the OP would have been compelled into showing his proof before the haters whipped the lemmings into a frenzy...:rolleyes:

Personally, I think it is probably a combination of things with fault on both Adam and the OP, but until someone actually posts up some concrete, verifiable facts then there is just no way to know the real story.

*Flame on haters* :rolleyes:
 
Okay, I am sure my post will rub people wrong on BOTH sides of this story so I will apologize upfront.

As everyone has known of me, I have been a pro-BOI supporter. I used to get involved with virtually EVERY BOI thread there was. I look at things a little differently now however and this thread is one reason why.

Heres the deal, in my opinion...

Where is the proof from the OP? He has posted absolutely nothing. I mentioned posting proof early in this thread, at least 100 posts ago and still nothing. I understand that there are other threads in other forums but what does that have to do with THIS forum and THIS thread?

As for Mr Wysocki responding to this thread, why on earth for if there is nothing posted here other than just an accusation? I havent seen any proof posted here, just hearsay. Even when quoting someone stating that they saw him at some show and had some conversation regarding this thread with him, its still hearsay. It would be like me posting that Obama told me that he really wasnt born in Hawaii and that he was really born in Ghana. Its still not proof that he owes anything to anyone.

Now, to offend the Wysocki supporters unfortunately...

As it seems to me, with everything that has been said, stated, and seen elsewhere... I dont doubt that he owes something to the OP, an apology with interest to say the least. I REALLY want to support NatPet.org but with the mess that I have been reading about, how can I (or anyone else for that matter) trust what is going to happen with all of that. I will say that dealing with 8ball and NatPet SHOULD be two different issues however, they still deal with one entity (Mr Wysocki).

At the end of the day, all I want is proof before everyone sets out to lynch someone who seems to be trying to do the right thing for the hobby as a whole. Personal problems or not, this should never be an end result.

To address another thing... Not everyone feels the need to cover themself in every reptile forum just because their name is brought up. I have noticed this with more "bigger named" breeders out there. Personally, I see why (even if I dont agree with it). This is my "preferred" forum and I wish that everyone would post their issues and answers here first and foremost. but with all of the hearsay and conjecture that happens, I understand a little as to why they dont.

To the OP, PLEASE post proof if you really want to add validity to this thread. Doesnt even make sense to me how this can even go on without it, other than it being stated that the proof is in some "other" forum. If you dont post proof here, all it is is hearsay as far as I am concerned. Normally, this isnt even accepted in the BOI, so I thought.

About the pied, I really hope that you receive your pied when you remit final payment. I understand why you wouldnt want to remit that payment as well. Maybe there could be some middle ground that you two can meet in to resolve the issue that the two of you might be having.
 
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