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Advice pls! How would you handle this situation?

C

CanopyCreations

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Ok, so I have a bit of a delima. I listed the last few of my chameleon boys and after talking to a guy who had a definite idea of what he wanted for a breeding male I ended up selling him one of my two holdbacks who was right at 4 months at the time. He lives in Canada and I in Texas but he assured me that he was familiar with and capable of getting animals into Canada and had done so before and was getting three other chams at the same time from other breeders. Well after payment I bought shipping from Ship Your Reptiles and got things ready to ship on the agreed day to a FedEx location in Washington state. I dropped off the package and sent him the tracking number. As soon as I sent the tracking info I received an email stating that he just found out he has to have a CITES permit and to not ship- I go rescue the package and have to take it to work with me. He then asked for a lot of info for the permit which I supplied and he sent the application. When a week passed with no news I emailed him and he informed me it would be another 4-6 weeks till the application would be processed. So this started on 10-29 with payment received on 11-10 and attempted shipping on 11-14. From 11-23 to 11-29 I got no info till I asked and was informed it would be 4-6 more weeks.
So essentially I want to know if you would continue to sit on an animal for another month+, try and adjust the price to reflect the care I am providing daily and the easy $200 increase in value due to two months of growth/maturity, or just refund his money and start over. Or if you have other ideas feel free to share! I have never had any problems till now and figure it was bound to happen sometime but I was not prepared for this situation.
Thank you,
Caitlin Tibbets
 
Caitlin

You asked what we would do. I personally would refund. This kind of delay was not part of a deal between you and someone who assured you he knew what he was doing yet made no mention of a delay.
What is a realistic wait time? Are you yourself required to have any paperwork, health inspections, etc.? (I am not familiar with the process).
As you said, the critter value may increase due to the time elapsed while you are holding it. Also, if some misfortune befalls the lizard, there are no agreements as to who would pay for vet care. And of course there is the cost of feeding, etc.
 
CITES can easily take that long...but he may not have been expecting the expense and hassle that he is encountering. I would initiate a discussion on the progress of his paperwork, including his import permit and CITES; as well as his plans regarding the health inspection. It isn't a simple procedure to just pick up animals on this side of the border and drive them over...and if he tries to bypass the legal route, it could come back to bite you on the ass.
Come right out and ask if he still wants to complete the transaction, and take things from there.
 
Thank you guys for the replies- much appreciated. I should have done my homework prior to agreeing to this so I could have asked more informed questions. Lesson learned. I just didn't want to back out of a deal as I never have before unless it was justified in the eyes of informed outsiders. He hasn't even mentioned a health inspection and I really think he exaggerated his knowledge and experience and I fell for it. I'm going to go express my concerns and see where it goes-I'll post back with updates.
 
Update -.-
Well, I sent him an email stating I would refund his money less shipping. He said no, please just be patient with him. So, I quoted him the amount I felt was reasonable to continue on and for more shipping. He didn't like it and I dropped a little off of it and he said he would let me know by Friday. Well, Friday passed with no email so I refunded him through PayPal and sent him an email explaining that he never answered me so I issued a refund. Now he says he's not responsible for the shipping cost and that I should pay for half his CITIES permit as well cause now it's wasted. The last thing he told me was there were 3 other chameleons as well as the one from me so I hardly feel like the permit is wasted. Also if I don't pay him the $75 he will have to 'pursue the matter further' with Management Authority. Am I liable? Can MA do anything to me assuming they believe this guy?
 
CanopyCreations said:
Update -.-
Well, I sent him an email stating I would refund his money less shipping. He said no, please just be patient with him. So, I quoted him the amount I felt was reasonable to continue on and for more shipping. He didn't like it and I dropped a little off of it and he said he would let me know by Friday. Well, Friday passed with no email so I refunded him through PayPal and sent him an email explaining that he never answered me so I issued a refund. Now he says he's not responsible for the shipping cost and that I should pay for half his CITIES permit as well cause now it's wasted. The last thing he told me was there were 3 other chameleons as well as the one from me so I hardly feel like the permit is wasted. Also if I don't pay him the $75 he will have to 'pursue the matter further' with Management Authority. Am I liable? Can MA do anything to me assuming they believe this guy?
Click to expand...

I highly doubt your liable for anything to do with cross border shipping.

The onus is on him and he failed to know anything in regards to what he's responsible for when buying from the States.

Having that said, I think you should have waited a little longer for his reply because he had put the paperwork through and whatnot. I know the average cost of shipping animals from the States is 800 so I think it's unfair that he may just have wasted that. I know he said there's 3 other animals but who knows about them as well. It's not like he didn't pay for the animal and was stringing you along for 4 - 6 weeks.

I'm curious though, why would he have to pay MORE shipping and more costs when he already paid? I could maybe see paying for feeders for a 4 week period but even then, that's just the cost of doing business. I don't add them to someone's bill if someone can't buy a snake from me for a couple weeks.
 
He said the permit was $100. So he wanted me to pay $50 of that because it was a wasted permit now even though there were three other animals on it. And I'd have to get more shipping because from what I read on the ship your reptiles site their labels, once purchased- which I already did because he told me to ship back on Nov. 14, are only good for one month which is fast approaching. Shipping from me to Washington state was $53.94 which he says he is not responsible for from the original transaction- even if I had continued with this transaction I would have charged him for the second shipping. And as far as the increase in cost, the care required to keep a snake for an additional 1-2 months and to keep a chameleon are quite different. Chameleons require daily feeding and care and he's so big now- fast approaching full size that he is in an 18x36 cage displacing another of my animals that is smaller. Not to mention that with chams their value increases substantially when they color up fully- from 4 to 7months is where they gain most of their coloration and size. So it would be more like me buying a baby snake from you and then expecting you to hold it, feed it, then ship me the adult. So far he has gone from 2.5"sv to 5"sv and will gain another 2-3" in his entire life.
I really regret not educating myself on this and taking his word that he was familiar with the importation process. I do accept responsibility for that, but I really don't think that makes me liable for the already wasted shipping and a permit that covers three other animals.
 
That's something he would have to discuss with you at the start, in regards to the paperwork.

It's a rather difficult situation because you entered into an agreement. Adding costs after payment for a 4 to 6 week wait is kind of a downer in my opinion. I know that the care is different between a chameleon and a snake and how that costs differ. I personally wouldn't do it.

With that said I think a refund was your best option since you both couldn't agree on a new deal.

The buyer should be lucky he didn't put any of the other money out for cross border shipping and it was only the $100 paperwork.
 
Also, I would have waited longer for him to reply but he had previously gone 6days without talking to me only to tell me it would be another 6 weeks and I had already expressed that my preference was to cancel and he said he would tell me for sure by Friday- that was his self imposed deadline. I took his lack of communication (even though I sent him another email) from 12-3 to 12-8 as an indicator that this was over. There's no reason he couldn't send me an email in 5 days informing me of his intent.
 
I see what you are saying- and I do not take breaking this agreement lightly. I have never faced a situation where I felt that breaking an agreement was the course of action for me till now. I do not feel that it is the same agreement now, weeks later that it was when we entered into it. The animal is not the same...quality? if you will, as before and what should have taken a week tops (as far as I knew) has taken a month plus. The refund was my preference from the get go because puting a price on keeping him is difficult to do but it's not something I would expect from a seller without some compensation.
 
Not sure what happened to the reply I tried to post this morning, so here's a similar version:

- If he is able to confirm that he is in the process of getting the necessary permits/paperwork, I would not have cancelled the transaction. While he didn't seem to have a good grasp of the process; I can't say that you've given the impression that you did, either. If you did know what was involved, you were somewhat remiss in not attending to some of the details with which you are now confronted.

- Why would you withhold shipping costs when you didn't ship. Yes, you "bought shipping"...but did you actually get charged for it? If so, I suspect that it was a fraction of what you paid - basically amounting to a small administrative and handling fee, since the package didn't actually go anyplace....and I wouldn't expect that unless they actually had to DO something to stop the package - ie, if it had left the facility, and had to get intercepted at the airport. I can print up a dozen labels this morning, each of which would represent a potential charge to my account; but I would not actually be paying for any of them unless I affix them to the box (which you did), present the box for shipment (which you did), and - here's the important part - unless the package gets sent. That last part didn't happen. I've dropped off a shipment in the evening, and picked it up the following day because it didn't go out...no charge to my account - it's possible that they've changed their method of dealing with that situation; but I think we'd have heard about it.
Check your credit card statement to confirm the charge, or check with SYR, before you make a bad decision.
 
Harald
No, I did not know anything about this process. That is something I really regret- tho I did tell him from the beginning I knew nothing about this but he assured me he did and had brought animals in before. It turns out he was not familiar with the CITIES process.
About shipping, are you saying that eventhough I purchased shipping I will not be charged unless I use it? Ill check my charges and if that is the case then I will refund the shipping- I had no intention of keeping any money from this, I assumed that money was already gone with the purchase of the lable. Thank you for that info I'll check it out.
 
Well, the charge is on my statement however I dug around in the SYR terms and policies and found that I may be able to get a refund because I never technically used my label. Thanks for the idea, I assumed before really checking into the situation. Hopefully I can get that refunded and in turn refund his $$
 
I request a refund from SYR and they were nice and professional about it. I'll get my money in 3-5 days so I went ahead and refunded him his shipping cost and sent him an email explaining what was going on.
 
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