Advice.....recent transaction..kind of long....

[Rockford]

I had a recent transaction. My first sale of some animals as well as my first shipping experience with live animals.

I would like some opinions regarding what should be done, if anything with the following situation. Here it goes:

I was to ship a trio of snakes that were in perfect health when I shipped them out. I should have thought twice about selling to someone not willing to give me their phone number even though I didn't force the issue.

I shipped after getting some 40 hour heat packs from Bean Farm to NY where it was 30 degree weather. I shipped priority overnight and provided a tracking number. The package arrived an hour and a half earlier than the latest time guaranteed. The buyer said he would be there at 9:00 at one point but didn't pick up until 10:37.

I e-mail him this morning asking what was going on why hasn't he picked up. I got no response(remember no phone number given). I e-mail again, still no response. I finally get a response 4+ hours later stating they arrived and they were shipped perfectly but he was unhappy with the large female.

He said that the Vet checked her out(already) and that she wasn't 100% healthy due to a rostral abrasion as well as a possible RI. I am not able to determine if the Vet said that she had a "wheeze" or the buyer observed it. I am having a hard time believing that she has a "epidermal breach" or a possible RI. He stated that I might have forgot it and insinuated that I was not honest in representing my animals.

I asked for a Vet report as well as pics of the snake in question but it really bothers me that this has transpired. It's only been a little bit since I e-mailed asking for this stuff but no response.

The buyer did not ask for a refund but I am still fuming over his accusations. There also has been some inconsistencies with him telling me his address isn't serviceable by the carrier, which I checked and it was. As well as him not giving me his phone number as well as telling me he would be there at 9Am to pick up (I was very nervous about them being OK since it was my first shipment).

Question: Too little to go to the BOI? This is my first sale and I am not trying to make a business out of this. This is just a hobby and I am not brokering snakes nor misrepresenting my animals "just to get rid of them".

What should I do? I am peeved!! BTW- I did save all correspondence with the buyer.

Thanks-

Bthacker

 

[Lucille]

Brett, if it was me I would wait a bit and get a copy of the vet report. For one thing, whatever was said in the report might be very minor; or perhaps the buyer misunderstood.
And, it would be good to really see proof that the animals went; and you can always call and confer with the vet, most are happy to discuss the matter if they get permission from the new owner.

Now if the vet report doesn't show up, or something is clearly wrong with the info, yes put it on the BOI.

It is coming up on Easter, you might take that into account with getting an actual copy of the report, but there is no reason you should not be furnished with a phone # of the vet by the buyer and call the vet office tomorrow,
My two cents.

 

[Rockford]

Thanks Lucille.....

This guy seems pretty nice and his e-mails are curteous even when he insinuated that I shipped an unhealthy animal, he complimented me on my packing as well as the other animals but....

It really gets to me because I am probably one of the nicest(I can truly say this), honest people out there.

I went the extra mile to have Bean Farm overnight some heat packs as I couldn't find any 40 hour packs anywhere(EBV might have had some but that would have been too late). Selling these snakes have cost me not only my time and extra money but alot of worry and headache. Then to be called dishonest really gets me.!!

 

[Lucille]

I agree that from what I have seen; you are a good and honest person. Wait and post tomorrow after you talk to the vet, it may have been some completely unexpected error like the assistant filed the wrong snake report or something at the vet office. Unfortunately, medical errors happen.
Of course, if he won't pony up the vet's phone #, then that's a different story....

 

[reptilebreeder]

I'd wait to see where he wants to go with this, and until he follows up with actual proof of Vet Documentation.
It appears you had it shipped "hold at depot" shipment. Did you have his actual address? I'd definitely be leary of dealing with someone without having a real address. Phone number would be nice too, although I've been trying to check up phone numbers lately on one of the reverse directory or look up websites and almost all the time now it comes up with

The phone number "(559) 732-xxxx" is a Visalia, CA based phone number and the registered carrier is Pacific Bell. However, due to number portability, some numbers have been transferred to a new service provider other than the registered carrier.

This isn't a cell number where someone may have gotten a new carrier, this is a number that has been the same person and address for almost 30 years, so now they just give you that quote, and a link to a site where you can pay to find better info. So it appears having a phone number is not as definitive as it used to be. Though it does facilitate better communication. I recently purchased some snakes from David Scarboro, and though I meant to give him my number, I think I forgot too, but we always answered each others e-mails within an hour or two.
Anyway I'd say the ball is in his court as far as, getting you the vet info, and what he wants accomplished.

 

[Rockford]

Brett-

Yes, I too have all of our correspondence saved - you can't be too
careful. You'll notice that there are 2 (two) e-mails that confirm
with you a pick-up of 10:30am (and they both succeeded the earlier
e-mail where 9am is even mentioned).

I was not accusing, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Are
you telling me that this rostral abrasion is news to you? Imagine my
shock and horror when I look down into the pillowcase containing the
older female to see a face with an obvious abrasion staring back at
me.

I hope you realize that I have commitments that must be planned for.
I had a meeting today with my research committee and I had confirmed a
10:30am delivery time with you. I was able to have my meeting and get
there before 10:30am. The FedEx holding facility is at room
temperature in case you are wondering.

Nice detective work by the way! That address belongs to a family
member and I use it for packages that require an address. I have no
fixed address at my residence (I built my house in the middle of a
large acreage that I own), hence it not being a deliverable address
(the path leading to it is unassumed and is private property - no
couriers). If I had an address then I would have given it to you.
Jeez...

I am a zoologist and my brother-in-law is a vet. We're both qualified
to give diagnoses, so whose do you prefer? I will not culture her
until I am convinced there is a RI to go along with her wound. They
did not sit in an enclosure beforehand, she had a raw nose from the
moment I laid eyes on her. Your defensive attitude is not sitting
well with me. If you believe this to be somehow related to transit
(though there's no blood in the bag and I don't believe trauma like
this wouldn't happen from a pillowcase) then just say so. I have
nothing to gain from this, I've already lost because I'm the one who
will be treating her.

As per your request, I've gone and disturbed her for a photo shoot
(and FYI, she was put in a Vision cage (rounded plastic corners)
straight out of the pillow case until she heals). This is what I saw
staring back at me in the FedEx parking lot. What would you do if you
ordered an animal and she came to you looking like this? You'd do the
same as I and express your disappointment to the person you bought her
from.

Regards,
-name withheld-

My response:

name withheld-

I don't know where to start. I am being defensive because you are making accusatory statements that I shipped this animal knowing that she had a rub on her snout. Wouldn't you be defensive if you knew you didn't send an animal in that condition? I don't want the benefit of the doubt.....I don't really need it.

And if you are qualified to give diagnosis then why did you need a Vet's opinion when you initially contacted me and then asking for a discounted price for a Vet visit? Another lie. Why do you keep lying?

Please send a larger picture of the animal ASAP. As well as a Vet report. I would also like to see her in the enclosure. And yes it is possible to get a snout rub from the bag she was in, believe it or not. You rub your face on cloth enough you are bound to get a rash. For being a Zoologist and your brother -in-law being a Vet you should know that snout rubs don't often bleed like a human would, therefore you won't see any blood in the bag.

Please let me know what you would like to do. I am not very happy that you still think that I sent and animal out knowingly with a snout rub and an RI.

Brett

I wish I would have never sent these animals. I am tempted to ask for them back and take a huge hit. I am soooo pissed!

 

[reptilebreeder]

So he asked for a discount or partial refund, based on the fact that he had to spend money on a vet visit? Yet turns out since he is a real life bona fide ZOOLOGIST (whatever), he probably Self diagnosed or got his brother-in-law to "diagnose" it at no cost. That right there would anger me, whether or not it had a nose rub or RI.
It sucks for your first time selling and shipping something, that you happen to get Ted Kazynski (sp?), no address cause he built his house on some of his own acreage. Don't you have to have some kind of address? How does he get utilities, or how would emergency services get there?

 

[The BoidSmith]

I wish I would have never sent these animals. I am tempted to ask for them back and take a huge hit. I am soooo pissed!

Brett,

If I were you I'd wait to see the picture and the vet report (as stated before me). If it is an abrasion as he states and it can be documented in the picture I hughly doubt it can be caused by rubbing the nose in the bag. I've shipped and received dozens of pythons some of them pushing hard against the bag upon shipping/or recieved, never did I see a nose rub because of this. In my opinion it happen in the enclosure. Asking pictures of the terrarium was a good idea. Was this a particularly restless python? It's hard to believe she will even get a nose rub in a couple of hours even if there was mesh in it. Keep us posted.

 

[shrap]

Brian, just kidding Brett....

It seems to me the more this guy talks the more he catches himself in lies. I would be very leary of anything he has to say at this point or any resolutions he requests. If you KNOW you sent healthy snakes, combined with the multiple lies, I would be forced to play a little hard ball with the guy and not give an inch at this point. Something smells funny on his end, make sure you don't get any on you.

 

[Rockford]

Brian, just kidding Brett....

It seems to me the more this guy talks the more he catches himself in lies. I would be very leary of anything he has to say at this point or any resolutions he requests. If you KNOW you sent healthy snakes, combined with the multiple lies, I would be forced to play a little hard ball with the guy and not give an inch at this point. Something smells funny on his end, make sure you don't get any on you.

LOL.... I need a laugh, especially after the last few days. I quit drinking and smoking 2 years ago but I can smell my ladies wine downstairs..lol.

I just recieved an e-mail. Just in time I might add. I was writing and about to send a detailed e-mail showing some inconsistencies with his e-mails to me. I probably should take it to the BOI but I won't.

He did say that he would like to end this sordid affair, wished me luck in life and there is too much hate in this world. So I think it is going to end here but I am still having a hard time with someone calling me misleading and dishonest.

Brian

 

[ms_terese]

I just want to add a comment about shipments being "HOLD FOR CUSTOMER". When we receive a shipment via UPS, that's how we ask for it to come. We live in a very rural area, and even next day delivery is not guaranteed before 5:00 p.m. Rather than have an animal sit in a truck all day knowing that we are the ABSOLUTE last stop, we have them held at the customer counter 40 miles away and are waiting at 8:30 to pick up. For FedEx, we have them delivered to a Mail Box Etc. type place 25 miles away, with guaranteed delivery by 2:00 p.m. The nearest FedEx customer counter is about 75 miles away, so that's the best we can do on FedEx.

I realize that doesn't necessarily impact this situation, but I wanted to clarify that there really are valid reasons for not having a shipment delivered to a residential address.

 

[shrap]

Glad to hear this is ended cleanly. I would not get too upset about him trying to say you were misleading and dishonest. I get the feeling he was just trying to pull a fast one on you, and when you did not go along easily he backed off.

So don't think twice about it. If anything you can walk away knowing that you know how to protect yourself from a scammer. Even if this guy was legit, which I do not think he was.

 

[Rockford]

Terese.....I don't want to keep typing anymore than I have today. I am burned out and my neck is cramping from looking at the keyboard..lol
The whole shipping to the hold location was not the issue. It is an issue when the person will tell you their address and it not really being theirs, without telling me the complete and honest facts. He told me that he lives somewhere isolated and he can't get shipments, so I mapped the address given to me and it was 1.7 miles or something like that to the holding facility....which opens at 9AM. I talked to the customer service rep and they told me they do service that address, that's why I thought it was fishy. The package wasn't picked up until after 10:30 with the snakes being there available for pick-up according to the tracking since opening. It freaked me out a bit.....it's 30 degrees back there and it is my first time shipping!!!!

By the way the person never asked me for any type of refund(one was offered) and as far as I am concerned this issue is a dead one and has been resolved. However I don't think he'll be buying anymore snakes I have for sale in the future. I would also like to address the phone number not being given to me. I only asked for it once and was told that e-mail would be easier. I was told recently had I pressed for it, it would have been given to me.

Thanks to all for your advice...

Brett

 

[reptilebreeder]

I just want to add a comment about shipments being "HOLD FOR CUSTOMER". When we receive a shipment via UPS, that's how we ask for it to come. We live in a very rural area, and even next day delivery is not guaranteed before 5:00 p.m. Rather than have an animal sit in a truck all day knowing that we are the ABSOLUTE last stop, we have them held at the customer counter 40 miles away and are waiting at 8:30 to pick up. For FedEx, we have them delivered to a Mail Box Etc. type place 25 miles away, with guaranteed delivery by 2:00 p.m. The nearest FedEx customer counter is about 75 miles away, so that's the best we can do on FedEx.

I realize that doesn't necessarily impact this situation, but I wanted to clarify that there really are valid reasons for not having a shipment delivered to a residential address.

I wasn't trying to imply anything "seedy" about having packages held. I also send & receive "hold" packages, and with delta dash they obviously stay, but I still give people I deal with my real address, e-mail, phone number etc. I just got the impression from Brett's first post, that not only didn't he have a phone number, but it didn't seem like he had any kind of address to "work" with. Definitely valid reasons to have stuff held, but it's nice to have a real address to work with, in case there are problems.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Brett,
You handled nicely. I hope your next transaction is smoother.