Airborne Express mess

[Ken Foose]

I have had an account with Airborne for about 7 months now. I have used them off and on for the past 3 or so years. I was actually contacted by them in March of this year and asked if I would like to open an account with them. They cold-called me. I explained that I would be using them to ship live harmless reptiles, and the rep assured me that that would fine. For the past 6 months, I have sent an average of 4 boxes a week out using Airborne. Each box has been labeled LIVE HARMLESS REPTILE. The route driver is a customer. Several workers at thier office are customers. I have been treated with nothing but professional respect when talking to agents, the drivers, and other staff. Monday I shipped out a box. My manager was called later that day and was told that they would not ship the box. When asked why, she was told it was because Airborne does not ship live harmless reptiles, unless they are turtles. I called Airborne, and was given the same line. I asked when the policy had changed. I was told the policy had always been the one they were stating, and that I had just fallen between the cracks. When I told them that the driver knew what I was shipping, and so did the handlers at thier warehouse (the name of my place is Exotic Pets, after all), I was told that they were wrong for accepting my packages. I was told that I had gotten away with breaking the rules for too long, and now it had caught up with me. I suggested that I could always just keep shipping with them and marking the boxes "pet supplies". I was told rather harshly that all my boxes would be openned for inspection with no exeptions in the future. I then asked for them to return my box to me, plus my payment that I had sent with it. I was told that if I wanted my package, I had to come and get it. As this conversation continued, my regular delivery person walked through the door with 2 boxes, both labeled "LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES", one from Texas, and the other from Arizona, and set them on my counter. I singnaled for her to hang around, and concluded my call with her superiors. I told her my problem, and asked if she could help. She said she would try. I then called the main Airborne number, and got a lady that said she could not help me, nor would she put me through to anyone. I then called again, got another lady, who said that the people I was talking to were way off base, and that yes, they did accept live reptiles for shipping. She said she would take care of it for me. Hours passed, and my driver showed up again for my daily pickup. I of course had nothing to give her. She said she had talked to her bosses, and indeed, they would no longer take any live shipments from me unless they were turtles. I asked about my animals being returned, and she said she would take care of it for me, no matter what. I then got a call from the lady who told me she would take care of things for me. She said "sorry, but the policy has changed, there is nothing I can do for you". I told her that in my opinion, Airborne was one of the main shippers of live reptiles in this country, and she simply stated "not anymore". I was about to burst. She told me how sorry she was, and that she had looked up my file, and it was a shame to lose me as a client. She said she could not understand what the big wigs were doing, and how they could turn down all this business. I asked if she had a record of what I had spent with them. According to her records, I have been billed for $6,491.13 since May 1. I know this is not a lot of money to a some people, but I always thought I was a rather good money making customer to them. And I know that I'm just a little fish in a very big industry.

I have no idea what to do, except rely on UPS for all my shipping in the future. I also do a fair amount of shipping via air cargo, so I will have to use these to fill the gap that Airborne has left. I guess I'm asking for advice, input, ideas, and comments. I have always tried to be as honest as possible with companies that I deal with, and was assured that what I wanted to do was approved and above board. Six months of shipping and I'm given the heave-ho. I would be interested in hearing from you guys on what you all think. By the way, the very nice lady gave me the name and address of Airborne Express's CEO, and suggested that I write to him and explain my case to him. I would love to see a whole bunch of us do this, but I am unsure as to whether this will put you guys in the same situation that I'm in. I know a lot of people still ship Airborne, and that it's most likely wise to just let you fly under the radar for as long as you can. If it were not for the fact that I have been treated with respect by the staff of Airborne up until today, I would say that they suck. As it is, I will now say that the managment of Airborne sucks. Hows that? Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Ken Foose]

Almost forgot to mention, my delivery person from Airborne delivered my animals back to me, along with my payment, on her way home from work. They would not allow her to do it on thier time, so she got my box and delivered it back to me on her own time. She then told me that it was a crappy thing to do to me, and I told her to please cancel my daily pickup, as I could not see a reason for her to waste time stopping anymore. She told me she would be in for mice and crickets in a few days. Thanks again

 

[Sasheena]

Jeeze, KEn, you HAD to bring this up today, of all days, didn't you? Here I am getting TWO shipments of reptiles tomorrow (my 4th and 5th reptile shipments ever) and one of them is via Airborne, and you have to bring THIS up! Urghle! Now I'll be on pins and needles all day until the shipment arrives!

On the lighter side I shipped my first reptile this week also. Chose UPS, went to the outlet, box was marked "Live Harmless Reptile" and "Lampropeltis Getula Goini" and they didn't even blink. Arrived fine, after 14 hours in transit.

I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Ken Foose]

Sorry

I didn't want to upset anyone. I assume that it will be business as usual for most that use Airborne. They just recently changed managment at the office in Vegas, and I think the new managment has a lot to do with my problems. Also, after re-reading my post, I am amazed at how calm I seem to be. But I was a raving madman this morning. To my loyal staff, who read this forum, and to my lovely lady, I am sorry for you having to put up with my anger today. I don't think I have been this pissed in years. Hell, even Pruitt did not make me this mad. Take care

 

[morphrancher]

A few weeks ago I posted in some of the forums about my experience with UPS. They actually came to my house (the address of my account) to talk me about a snake I had shipped a week prior. Apparently it was opened for inspection on it's way to the recipient. I had a pleasant talk with the regional security supervisor who tried to help me. We checked their terms of service and indeed their was no mention of snakes anywhere. She made some calls and was told that it was "their policy" not to ship snakes. Apparently other reptiles are okay to ship with them but although there is no written rule, snakes are not. I mentioned that about three hours before they came by I received a couple snakes shipped through their service. She told me that the person at HQ said they knew people were shipping snakes but it is all done against their policy. I was told their is no way to get special dispensation to ship snakes. Period.

So this is the overall picture: there is no legitimate way to ship snakes through the national parcel carriers. No UPS. No Airborne (I have an account with them as well and I've known for quite some time that do not allow snakes). No FedEx. No USPS. Not even Greyhound will take snakes.

The only legitimate method seems to be air freight and in my area that means only Delta and US Airways. After all the waiting I finally got my Delta verification and US Airways simply requires a reservation. However that doesn't work for inexpensive animals.

This seems like a huge problem that is going to affect businesses and hobbyists alike. I'll probably ship my next inexpensive shipment via one of the carriers mentioned and I won't be surprised to "get caught". Once UPS and Airborne decide to get serious about their no snake attitude we are all headed for some real trouble.

Alex Tanner

 

[WebSlave]

Since all of the freight carriers are engaging in interstate movement of commerce, I suspect there are federal guidelines they are required to follow and perhaps even be licensed to engage in this sort of business. I may be completely wet about this, but it is unlikely that the US Government has let slip by some form of business that they CAN regulate that they have not done so.

I would be real curious to know, if they in fact exist, what sort of federal guidelines exist for them (UPS, Airborne Express, FedEx) to engage in their business and choose how and what they may or may not carry in transit.

At one time I was looking into the regulations concerning the US Postal Service in an effort to determine what law was on the books that restricted us from shipping live snakes via that method. Best I could come up with was only a mention of the restriction against shipping live snakes in the Domestic Mail Manual, which to the best I could determine, is NOT law, only a set of guidelines for US Postal workers to follow.

I had intended on writing the postmaster general, but just never got painted into a corner long enough that I followed up on doing that. Perhaps someone else may want to do that sometime in the near future:

Office of Postmaster General
ceo William J. Henderson
475 L'Enfant Plaza SW
Room 10022
Washington, D.C. 20260-0010

Bear in mind that I do not know if the above mentioned gentleman is still the postmaster general. That information was current in early August of the year 2000.

Sooner or later, we are going to have to make a legal challenge to this discriminatory practice against our industry if we are going to survive in this business. I would suggest that anyone with some free time on their hands may want to do some digging now to see if what the common carriers are doing is actually within the law.

Certainly there is no defensible logical reason why any carrier should refuse shipment of small to moderately sized non-venomous snakes. Trying to claim that a hatching corn snake is "dangerous" to anyone would be real hard to convince a jury.

 

[geckosunlimited]

UPS daily account

Ken,

I completely understand your frustration, and I've had similar problems in the past. The reason that you are getting different answers is simply due to the fact that many employees of Airborne do not know their policy. As I'm sure you are well aware, Airborne will only ship turtles and select amphibians. The policy is arbitrary, and I have had dozens of conversations with Airborne about it. Are they going to change the policy to allow shipment of other herps? Unlikely, but hundreds of herp breeders will continue to use Airborne and not mark the boxes. It is becoming increasingly difficult to ship herps these days.

I used USPS from 1990-1998, with only a couple of problems, but they are no longer an option due to time in transit issues. Please keep in mind that I only work with geckos, and I understand that it is much more difficult to ship snakes. I believe Delta and a couple of other airlines will ship snakes, but I could be wrong. I shipped via Airborne for a couple of years, but they were unaware that I was shipping geckos. I became friends with a regional manager, and I eventually let him know what I was shipping. Well, I no longer ship via Airborne. You can figure out the rest of that story.

I now have a daily account with UPS, and they definitely know that I ship geckos. I talked to several UPS corporate employees before I got the account, and they assured me that I could ship geckos via UPS. Like I mentioned earlier, if you are shipping snakes, I believe your options are rather limited. I can tell you that you must have a daily account with UPS in order to ship reptiles.

With so many individuals disregarding the shipping regs of the carriers (I understand the desperation), it will become increasingly difficult to ship herps in the future. Obviously, you were told that it was fine to do so, but later told it was not. You are not at fault in this situation, and I'm truly sorry that you have to deal with this. I sure hope that UPS will continue to allow shipment of reptiles. We are running out of options!!

 

[Casey Hulse]

Same thing happened to me

Sorry to hear that Ken. Something similar happened to me this year. I sent a package to Florida, (from MI) and the "detectives" who work for airborne decided I might have something alive in the box (it was clearly labeled on 5 sides "live harmless reptiles, and the label said turtles") because it had several holes punched in it. Upon inspection they discovered some bearded dragons and contacted my local office, I was informed that they did not appreciate being lied to and they would not deliver the package, nor would they return it. "Luckily" the customer was only about 60 miles away and picked up the package at the warehouse and the animals were fine. The local guy here acted like he had just discovered the "Pablo Escobar" of the reptile trade. I no longer use Airborne for anything, (never will). There is a long thread here somewhere about the same thing. Good Luck.

 

[Xtreme Reptiles]

We have just had the same Problem with airborne... After almost 8 years $3,000 a week And Over $500,000.00 Since inception they deceided to pull the Same Line on us.... Airborne was recently Aquired By DHL... All the employees have been moved or replaced by new ones or DHL Employees, so all they do now is look at the Guidelines with no reason or understanding... Airborne was not the best company to ship through anyways (late and lost packages, Fake attempted deliveries, Incoreect arival times on the website so you cant claim them and many lost shipments) but we were loyal to them even after being contacted by all the other major shipers... This All of a sudden move is in some asspects Illegal... They had knowledge of what we shiped for over 8 years and accepted packages and Payments...Airborne reps were here on ocasional during their usually short teniors... In order to keep this short I would love to have a list of all the people who have had this sort of similar situation happen to them... There is one way to get to a big company like this, go to their wallet... This has the makings of a possible class action suit... There are other options for shipping which are allowed...We are currently working with Fed Ex to get an acceptable shipping method for all harmless reptiles to be allowed... Email me all your info if you fall into the catagory with airborne as well as a brief summary of events to

[email protected]


Thank you
Alfredo Veloso

 

[jenn_jeffery]

I don't know if this helps any, but when I was trying to ship a pair of dragons not too long ago, I called ALL of the carriers to see who I could legally ship reptiles through, as a one time only type thing. No one. BUT if I wanted to setup a daily pickup account with UPS, they would ship the reptiles, but you have to have a daily pickup account with them, otherwise they won't ship reptiles. Go figure.

It costs nothing to setup an account, so this made no sense to me, and I even asked the guy "So if I open an account today, you pick the animals up tomorrow, I can cancel it the next day?" His reply was "certainly, if you want to, but we at UPS would love to have your business." He didn't seem to understand I was only shipping animals ONCE, never again most likely.

UPS may be the best route to legally go for those of you with frequent shipments, but those who rarely ship, or are just selling some animals off to downsize as I was, are still in a bit of trouble. There was no mention of snakes, so I'm not sure what the UPS policy on those is, but the box could of course just be marked "live harmless reptile" and no mention of snakes...

I hope this has helped some, at least for those of you who ship on a regular basis.

 

[LeosAnonymous]

You don't need a UPS Daily Pickup to ship non-snake reptiles... Dont listen to the customer service rep that you initially speak with over the phone; all you need to do is call UPS and ask for them to have your local manager contact you. They will want you to sign some waivers and all you have to do is fax it back to them.

Even with a daily pickup snakes are against policy.

Another thing about daily pickup is that they charge you weekly for the daily pickup service... I can't remember how much, but it is significant.

The best way to ship UPS is to drop the animals off at your local hub... don't drop them off at a Mailboxes Etc, or at The UPS Store, make the drive to and drop them off at the UPS Shipping Hub..

 

[Ken Foose]

I had the same problem with FedEx over the summer. I shipped some turtles back east, or attempted to. I had contacted the "animal desk" when I set up the account there, and the person on the phone had told me that shipping animals was ok. Of course, you can guess the rest. My turtles were delivered back to me. Seems Fedex will deliver animals alright, if they are horses, zebras, etc. I went round and round with them too, just like I did with Airborne on Monday. Bottom line is that they will not ship anything live, despite what others have posted on other threads in this forum. I do sell zebras, but come on, how would I get it in that box to tape it up without catching its mane in the styro? I'm shipping today, as usual, about 6 boxes. I'm having them picked up by UPS. That seems to be my only choice now. Yes indeed, some of those boxes hold snakes, and I guess it's only a matter of time before I get racked over the coals again. UPS policy clearly states that they will not ship snakes. On a clever note, I did recieve a shipment of snakes the other day, labeled live plants. In the box were the snakes I had ordered, and a wonderful clipping of some house plant. The seller had not lied at all, just a small omission. The animals were great, but as hard as I tried, the plant died. Something needs to be done about this. Does the pony express still deliver?

 

[JungleHabitats]

as of yet i havent had a problem (more)

having a shipment refused by airborne .But last year and as well as this one i have been doubled billed by them.Iwould get a quote of one price relay that to my customer and then intern when my invoice arrives its doubled. its one thingto have a $26.00 charge doubled ... but when they double charge a $126.oo charge doubled to $254.00 thats a whole different ballgame .I have also had problems on one cage that went to california that wasto be billed tothe customer at there request this was a large cage and fully equiped with lights , misting , heat etc. well airborne managed totally destroy the cage .When notified by the customer of this and by airborne i requested a photo to determine what if anything could be done on my end .While i hadinsuredit for $1000.00 which was its value of cage and all of the contents i was given a 6month run around where the customer was billed over $400 for a ground shipment that should have been less then $200 shipping charges .After over 50 calls to airborn on a daily basis about the photos or status of my claim since i had insured it . where all i got was a run around of how there were ontop of this and would asure me i would be taken care of , when i would call back to check status due to there supervisors NEVER contacted me on this as i was promised i finally was told i was contacted by the hub that had the package and that they had since disposedof the package.Well to say the least i was totally enraged over the fact they had disposed of something they had not made goodon and never sent me proof of the damage and were still chargingthe custome for something they had not received . eventually i received a check from airborne for $600.00 ???? when i asked of the otherinsured amount of $400.00 they seemed to have forgotten they said that that was all there were going to pay.Now i had sent in what they wantedto see as far as my invoice for all materials labor etc. .. they way i seeit unless you are shipping MANY MANY high value items and even then if you are not some LARGE fortune 500 company they really have no interest in you products and or buisness. i wrote offmy $400 loss and i made it up by refusing to pay any amounts in the future that would be billed to me in and upto the $400 amount owed to me in there settlement. was it the smart thingto do who knows but i have never yet to this day recieved a billing statement for shipment made from that time IMO they all suck even the good ones will get one over on you if you dont stay on top of all your paper work.

 

[Xtreme Reptiles]

My office manager would spend at least 7 hours a week Correcting airborne invoices, on a regular basis they would over bill us by $200



Alfredo Veloso

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

When we used Airborne we were double billed many times by them. It got to the point that I was paying them the amount that they quoted me and not paying the extra they were charging on the invoice. I went around and around with them for quite some time. They kept demanding that I pay the other amounts and I refused to do so. They would initially correct it and then send me an additional addendum with that amount billed again. The total of the extra was about $1000.00 and When I stopped using them I informed them that I would not pay the extra and that was final. We have been with UPS for about 3 years now with great success. We have had a share of problems there as well but not like Airborne. One thing with UPS to be careful of, I ship using their express boxes which only get charged by actual weight and not dimensional weights. Well when the packages arrive in their Hub the employees there dimensionalize the packages and put it on my account and then I have to discuss it to have it removed. It has happened about 10 times but hopefully it no longer will happen.

 

[Bci Joe]

Airborne Express employes a bunch of incompetent morons. No, not every single employee there is an idiot, but most are... seems to be the requirements.. lol

I've been through this too many times with Airborne - to me they are a waste of time, space, air, life, etc....

Unfortunatley, we will always get the run around - these people aren't 'programmed' to take responsibility - their 'job structure' does not establish this.
Everyone and anyone will tell you one thing and pass you to another fool who will tell you the oposite, and back and forth..

I hate to lie, for soo many reasons.. but I have found that unfortunately the only way to get around this is to lie.

Funny how they would go to an Exotic Reptile store daily to pick up obvious animals being shipped out, but yet when you speak to them, it's NO NO NO!

The story about the animals and the Plant, marking the box 'Live Plants', is quite ingenious! especially since it actually did include a clip of a plant.

What I would usually do is label the box ' 'LIVE HARMLESS REPTILE SUPPLIES'

if asked what the box contained, I would maybe say live spagnum moss, or live sand (for saltwater aquariums) or even just plants. I have NEVER been questioned further.

A common example of something similar is when we all hear the stories about ..
'I told my landlord about my snakes and he wants me out! doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100 ! '

IGNORANCE does not differentiate. They won't understand either way, and most times it's simply because they do NOT WANT TO understand. I give up on these people in society as a whole. No need...

 

[geckosunlimited]

UPS daily account charges

Ross,

UPS only charges $7-15 a week, depending on how much one ships. I think that is a fair price for convenience. I was told that one must have a daily pickup account with them to ship reptiles (excluding snakes). I'm sure that if I called 10 employees, I would get 10 different answers. In my situation, UPS is the best option. I only ship a couple of boxes a day, but I believe that they appreciate my business.

BTW, UPS often tries to overcharge, so I examine every bill that I receive.

 

[LeosAnonymous]

That isn't too bad at all... I remember being quoted something like $30 a week for it.

It depends on how many packages you ship out right?

And I agree that UPS is the best option, that's who I use. So far no problems at all.

 

[geckosunlimited]

weekly charge

If you don't ship anything, you will be charged $15/weekly. It is $7 a week if you ship $60 or more. I believe it is $11 if you ship $30-60 a week.

 

[LeosAnonymous]

Time for me to call UPS... I'm tired of making the trip down to the hub three times a week, lol.

Thanks for the info Nathan, I was under the impression that it was quite a bit more expensive.