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Airborne Express mess

UPS

We just had a bad experience with UPS. We received a shippment of snakes in marked (live harmless reptiles) the same day a shipment was sent out with a variety of herps. 12 hours went by and there was no tracking info available so we called the terminal to find the problem and we were told the package was on its way, literally 1 minute later we received a call telling us they would not ship the package and the gentlemen asked if there was a snake in the box knowing I had only placed one snake in the box and the only way they would know was if the box had been opened I cofessed that there was indeed a snake in the box. About an hour went by and we received another call about the package this time a lady she said we had to come pick up the package, So we called the 1-800 number and explained the problem and were told that with a valid account we can ship snakes via UPS but nothing poisonous. I called the terminal back and explained what I had just found out from their main office and was told that the package had already left and they were not sure who called, again 1 minute later (caller ID) the lady from earlier called and said the package had to be picked up. To make a long story short they made me come down and remove the snake and then they shipped the rest. When we arrived we found that the box had been cut open and gone through when we asked why we were told simply because the label on it with a business name that had the word exotics in it and the employees were curious what might be in the box. So in the end because of the employees being curious our shippment was held up.

Thank you for listening
Tony Barbush
Bayou Beasts
 
I would be outraged if not for the fact that this is common practice. I was told by Airborne that each and every one of my boxes would be opened and inspected to make sure that I was not shipping any live animals ever again. And please note the state of confusion the the staff of UPS has in the above post. No one with any of these companies seems to know thier own policies, and it varies depending on who you talk to at the moment. I talked to the locals at the Vegas Airborne office, and they told me to come pick up my box of live harmless reptiles. I was then told by a supervisor at the 1-800# that the locals had no clue what they were talking about and that she would direct them to ship the box. I was then told the next day by the locals that they would not ship the box, because they did not allow the shipping of animals, just as the Airborne driver delivered two boxes to me labeled live harmless reptiles. They had to have just passed through the same place that the people I was talking to on the phone were calling from. Later the supervisor that had told me she would handle it called and said that yes indeed, all live reptile shipping except for turtles via Airborne were being halted, nationwide. I got another box labeled live harmless reptiles delivered to me via Airborne today! I shipped out several boxes via UPS today, snakes included. To say that I'm confused, a bit worried, and really miffed is an understatement.
 
This is a concern to me, I dislike Fed-Ex, we have received too many boxes from them that looked like a gang of kids used them for a trampoline.

I have an airborne account and never had a problem, when I set up the account they new what I ship, the local staff know and right now I am shipping out baby bearded dragons that were imported from Germany. It's nice that I can drop them off at 6:30 PM not too far from my house and it is right at the airport. The dragons arrive by 10:30 am and never seem to miss a stride in eating or stressing.

Their office closes shortly after I drop them off and I am concerned that if they will not ship them now, the animals will sit there overnight. I have never had any problems and all deliveries have been on time.... this is really frustrating, I don;t know whether to call them and clarify things or just keep shipping and hope they go through.
 
I don't normally comment much here, though I do read most everything. I just wanted to share my experiences with all three shipping companies, since this is a highly important subject to me.
The majority of our shipping has been with Airborne. Simply because we ship a lot of tortoise. And that is one thing we can fight them on as it is in plain writing that they will ship them. So far we have had limited trouble as far as the animals are concerned. Delivered on time, to the right place, etc. The head of our terminal even keeps packeges in her office for us sometimes, so that they are climate controled) We have had major trouble with billing though. Overbilled, billed for shipments that were never transported (the sender was called and asked to come pick the tortoise up at the hub..it never even left their town), weight variations, etc.

We have only shipped with FedEx twice. Both times were completely satisfactory. No billing trouble, no delivery trouble. But that was only twice.

UPS we have used once. And that is simply because we ATTMEPTED to ship a snake with them. I was called about 5:00 in the morning and told that I would have to pick the box up before 8:00 am..and no later. Or it would be disposed of. When I questioned them on the problem I was told that they search ALL packages before they leave the building. They opened the box from the obvious wrong end. I had use a solid bottom box type styro. So it has to be opened from the top. They had used something pointed to stab into the sides/top edges of the styro to pull the whole mess out of the cardboard box. Of course when they did the styro lid, packing, bagged snake, etc fell out of it. Needless to say I was not very happy and they will never receive my business again.

This now leaves me with Airborne and FedEx for my shipping needs. I will still use Airborne for tortoise unless they just get completely nuts with billing problems. But I do also ship quite a few lizards and snakes. Up to this point I have most always shipped them with Airborne also. I don't feel it's right to hide what you are shipping..but what can you do? I am never questioned on the matter because they are aware that I ship tortoise. But I am always concerned that just one time somewhere they will look to see what is in the box. USPS is out for me for lizards because they take min. two days for express. (rural location too far from the nearest airport)
It really does make you worried about that next batch of animals to go out, and makes you wonder about who would be your best bet to use. Jason Parrish
 
I don't label my stuff anymore.
It is just a chance I take.
And if the chance I take backfires....and the snake dies or something.....oh well I just refund the money to the customer.

But since someone mentioned proper labeling because of Lacy Act and getting fined and all that.

I will properly label the box.
Somewhere at the bottom in small print. But not so small. Then I will drag it on the cement to make the label look old as if it has been there before.

Tada

I do not ship as much as some of you.

My yearly bill shippig bill only gets up to about $500- $2000
Do they really want to lost that much money from 100's of small timers like me?

Do they really want to lose the business of the people who actually ship several packages everyday of the year?
 
Lacey Act

Chris McAra,

Please tell me more about what happened to your friend or what you know about the Lacey Act. I've read the statue, but heard conflicting stories on enforcement, what it exactly applies to with regards to snakes, etc.

Thanks & God bless,

Phil Frost
ZNJ Exotics
[email protected]

PS
For what it's worth, I live in a rural area and have had problems with FedEx and big problems with AirBorne. The only carrier whose been reliable out here in the woods is UPS.
 
The violation of the Lacey Act being discussed here is the Mis labeling article. I don't know of any articles that specify snakes only but below is the exact article on mis-labeling.

(d) False labeling offenses



It is unlawful for any person to make or submit any false record, account, or label for, or any false identification of, any fish, wildlife, or plant which has been, or is intended to be -

(1)

imported, exported, transported, sold, purchased, or received from any foreign country; or

(2)

transported in interstate or foreign commerce
 
I just got a call from Tad at Captive Bred Exellence here in Vegas. He is an outstanding guy, with top of the line herps. He had been informed that Airborne would not ship out his Bolivian Boas, nor would they take any herps in the future. He asked if he could use my known shipper from Delta. Of course I said yes, as he has done this in the past. I just call them and tell them that a staff member is dropping off a box to be shipped. It seems that the no shipping policy is slowly spreading. On the same note, I am shipping out a 50+ sulcatta today to Texas with UPS. We talked for sometime (UPS and I) about how to pack him for the trip. So far they have been more then willing to work with me. Of course we are not talking snakes, either.
 
UPS

If UPS is truly allowing some businesses and individuals to knowingly ship snakes and denying others based on arbitrary decisions, then they have taken away the opportunity for others to compete with these "blessed" shippers.

This is a big deal to me and it should be to everyone involved in selling snakes.

I do not feel it is up to UPS to decide who succeeds and who fails in the reptile business.

Alex Tanner
 
agreed Alex ... more

If they are allowing certain individuals to ship snakes no matter where they may be located and then using there descretion( sp ) to not allow others then could they be setting themselves up for a lawsuit?

Heres what i mean ;
EX: herper bob in california is able to ship snakes through UPS because he has a cool Rep. who lets him do so

EX: herper Joe in North Carolina is told that under no circumstances will they allow him to ship snakes due to it being against there rules & regulations .

now if thats the case and for anyone who may be allowed to ship snakes i ask you is it fair that you are given "special privliges to do so? while just because you have a understanding rep or shipping facility there they do not allow someone else located in a different region to do the same ?

Please dont answer this just because you are allowed todo so and are still making money doing it . But give an honest answer on the fairness to do so and think about if the shoe wasnt on your foot . For them to do so is in essence is them deciding who can make a living and who cant doing this as a buisness.

And if you are allowed to do so would you stand beside fellow herpers / petshops in making a petition to UPS to allow us all to ship via them or would the greed that allows you to do so be greater then the ability to have fair compition.
 
We just came from our local Airborne office and talked to the manager there. According to him they are not stopping shipment of reptiles, he stated the is not direction from their home offices to not accept them. He stated they will not ship dogs, cats etc, but there is no problem with reptiles......... now I am utterly confused, but will continue to ship with them until told otherwise.

Both Fed Ex and UPS we have had terrible problems with in this area with packages that look beat to death. The fed ex guys idea of home delivery is to toss it from the mid front yard on the porch and run! I went through a awful time getting a box of supples returned that was smashed worse than anything I ever saw, the local hub would not take it and the pick up request did not seem to work. UPS can't seem to understand what the arrows on a box means or puts it unsidedown on purpose.
 
Precisely Alan

I believe it is in everyones best interest to resolve this matter once and for all regardless of the outcome and if you have "permission" to ship snakes or not. Here are a couple points:

1. This is similar to anti-herp legislation. It gets passed in one area and then copied in another, and another, and another. If you do not remain vigilant about these issues then sooner or later out of the blue they might directly affect you. Just because it is not happening in your area does not mean it is not happening at all.

2. Suppose you ship snakes regularly without problems and have an okay from your local office: If there is no stated policy, and these decisions are arbitrary, your ability to ship snakes could be compromised at any time. If you are sitting on a large inventory for resale this could result in serious financial losses.

Alex Tanner
 
heres an idea

ok for every one that uses one of the overnight carriers wether its one shipment a week or 100 a week please list how many you ship out weekly , bi weekly or monthly.

heres an example :

if you ship out say 25 packages a week and those 25 packages cost $40 on average to ship ( keep in mind this doesnt have to be a reptile i am talking general shipments counting supplies , cages , retpiles as a whole . anything you ship)

25 shipments@$40 ea =$1000.00 a week in shipping
if this is averaged over say just to be on the light side on 30 weeks a year thats $30,000.00 a year for just one person


now if there are 100 people shipping 25 packages a week for 30 weeks .This would be a very significant amount for a shipping company to make a year for doing nothing more then there doing now unknowingly.

that would add upto $300,000.00 a year that they would stand to make or break on now if they were to create a " special reptile shipping account" for shipping reptiles and were to even charge $100.00 annual fee to be in this speacial account group. that would amount to no less then $10,000.00 a year for them to do basically nothing but we know that if they were to create a speacial account like that they would be closer to $50,000.00 - $100K a year for basically not doing anything but creating a new account for us reptile shippers...

i am going to create a new thread for this specific reason and would greatly appreciate for everyone that ships anything to post the amount you ship based on a monthly basis this way we would have an idea of How much revenue that any of the shipping companies would stand to loose or gain by letting us ship LEGALLY through them .
i am also going to ad a poll into it to see who would actually be for them charging a yearly fee for this service

thanks guys/ gals
 
I just got a cold-call from an Airborne customer service rep from Seattle. She had no idea what was going on, so I told her. She was dismayed that I would no longer be shipping with them, and I told her why. She then read off the list of animals that Airborne will except for shipping. Turtles, frogs, non-venomous insects, crustacians, and fish. This new policy went into effect on Sept. 1. She was very understanding, and has proposed to take to the higher uppers a proposal to set up some guidelines for shipping live reptiles and amphibians, no matter what kind they are. I suggested some sort of written standards for shipping live animals, and she is going to propose this also. This will most likely go nowhere, but let's see first.
 
ken ...

more then likely it wont go past her desk ... as my experience was when trying to get some answers on a destroyed cage . they promise you the world whileon the phone ( so they dont get blessed out for being a drone on a phone) if i had a penny for every person in Airborne that told me they would personally look into this and get back ASAP or sooner i would be retired living on a island some where .

it took me many months many letters , phone calls & finally one person gave me the VP of operations # in Seattle to talk to thats when i was even told by his personal seceratary that i would have a FULL refund of monies owed me as her file showed this going on over 6 months, well it took another 6 weeks to get the check and it was $400 shorter then the claim i had it insured for ... lol hopefully you contact will have more pride in her job then others i talked with did let us know
 
I believe it is in everyones best interest to resolve this matter once and for all regardless of the outcome and if you have "permission" to ship snakes or not. Here are a couple points:
Click to expand...

So what's this?? If I cant have a drink of water, then I'm going to piss in the well??

Just what do you think will happen if you start pounding on UPS's door demanding that everyone get equal treatment? You know it as well as I do. They will make sure that no one can ship animals through them. That sure will make you Mr. Popular, now won't it?

Sound kind of spitefull to me. Wouldn't it be better to let those businesses shipping snakes and whatnot through UPS to establish a beachhead right now so there is some evidence to be able to back up your claims that there is nothign wrong with shipping harmless snakes through them??

Go ahead, set their attitudes in concrete with your demands. We will all love you for it, Alex.
 
Well, got another phone call from the Airborne girl in Seattle. She had called and spoken to several employees at the Airborne office in Vegas, specificaly about me, my shipping habits, and my account in general. She had been informed that all the staff there knew what I was shipping, how I was shipping, and had no problems with what I am shipping. She said that they all had complemented my business, my packing, and appriciated my business. She said she could also not track down the man I had talked to on the phone, the one that threatened to have every package I shipped opened and inspected. As far as she was concerned, my account was still good, and that they welcome my business back. I told her that I was reluctant to use thier services again unless I get it in writing that I am OK'd to ship any and all reptiles and amphibians I like, with the exception of venomous reptiles. She's supposed to get back to me. I once again suggested that the higher-ups in her company get together with some of us in our business and come up with a shipping standard for live reptiles and amphibians, including snakes and spiders. Perhaps some kind of "known shipper" policy, much like Delta has, but more geared to the hobbiest and breeder, so they too can have access to shipping that Delta sometimes denies them. I'll have to wait and see what transpires next.
 
Definitely keep us posted Ken. Due to this thread, I cold stopped using airborne as well. It was that day that I got a call from someone in Houston wanting to know exactly what was in the box they had for me (that was the buyer's location). By the time I got the message it was already delivered, but that and this thread spooked me enough. I was in the same boat where I was told by the animal desk clerk in 2001 (after 9/11--switched from usps) that I could ship reptiles with them, no prob. My local people knew too.
On a better note, I did meet with a UPS rep this week and they have changed their policy to allow an occasional shipper account for reptiles. This means that they do not have to come for a pick up everyday. Like Cheri, I like to drive my packages down at the end of the day to the main office so they are not trucked around all day long. Now, we can do this with UPS.
I talked to him about snakes, and I'm sure it wont get too far, but he said that he'd talk to people. They all seem hungry for business so I'm not sure why someone wont bend.

Dana
 
Talk to the UPS driver that has you on his route. They will work with you on the pickup schedule. Mine tries to have my place scheduled as the last stop before he heads back to the main depot. If he has more deliveries to make after my pickup, he will hand off the boxes to another truck heading back there, so they spend the minimum amount of time on the road.

They are not supposed to do ANY pickups before 2:30pm anyway.
 
more on airborne

well heres more on my billing
with airborne, they found and deducted 400.00 in pick up fees, and re billed, i found but have not called in yet 250.00 they were billing to me and should have been billed to reciver, was going to pay bill, but got a letter that has some lawyer sueing me for the whole amount again
999.00, well i am on cash only now untill bill is straightned out, just drove 50 miles to dothan ala, to ship when i got there the lady in the office told me there was a 10.00 plus 25.00
charge to get my rate per box
plus shipping charges, i called airborne, they said that was not right, but could nod ship, i went to fed ex, shipped and found that airborne rates comparison sheet was wrong. fed ex was cheaper, so i m using fed ex for a while, airborne office people have work with me, i think most of my problem is the local office
gene
 
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