AL Cortiz, BAD GUY

[kmurphy]

I agree Kara that Justyn should let it go. Whatever damage that Justyn could do to Al's reputation has been done so at this point it is just

As devil's advocate though. Al has disputed little of what Justyn has said and refuses to answer Wes' questions. So I don't think he's come out of this unscathed. It is a moot point, because I wouldn't by venomous, but given the choice between two vendors with the same animals, I would probably choose the other guy over Al.

 

[nora]

I still want to see the permit al says he had.

I think he's lying.

I think he's mad a justyn and making things rough for him as payback.

I don't care whether he and justyn had a falling out.

I do care that al did business with justyn a month ago and was pleased with that business because he got what he wanted but when he got screwed by justyn's exporter THEN all of a sudden he feels the need to put justyn in thumbscrews.

al, you're stinking pretty bad here.

You gonna post those import permits or pull a mr. clark and slink away?

Wes... re-read those emails that were posted.. Al already said that Joe's the one with the permits and is the one that got the deal started between them and the importer. I've known that Al and Joe have been working together on getting things brought in for a while now...
hell I've known joe for a little over 3 years, and I know he's got the permits, he's even gone to school for FWC to become an fwc officer..I think he knows well and good what the rules are.

Justyn said that he would offer to help but backdown when he saw what Al told him what was happening, and what was to transpire

Al told him what course of actions he took and what effect it will have on all the parties involved, because justyn mentioned some kind of partnership between himself and the importer, and the laywer simply said that justyn might end up being afflicted as well.

Now, Justyn's running around crying that Al's twisted everything and pinned stuff on him. If anything it's Justyn that's twisting stuff and making look like HE's the victim.

Justyn just needs to stop trying to persuade those who already know the history he's dealt here or any other website that he's really a good guy.

 

[Wilomn]

Wes... re-read those emails that were posted.. Al already said that Joe's the one with the permits and is the one that got the deal started between them and the importer. I've known that Al and Joe have been working together on getting things brought in for a while now...
hell I've known joe for a little over 3 years, and I know he's got the permits, he's even gone to school for FWC to become an fwc officer..I think he knows well and good what the rules are.

Justyn said that he would offer to help but backdown when he saw what Al told him what was happening, and what was to transpire

Al told him what course of actions he took and what effect it will have on all the parties involved, because justyn mentioned some kind of partnership between himself and the importer, and the laywer simply said that justyn might end up being afflicted as well.

Now, Justyn's running around crying that Al's twisted everything and pinned stuff on him. If anything it's Justyn that's twisting stuff and making look like HE's the victim.

Justyn just needs to stop trying to persuade those who already know the history he's dealt here or any other website that he's really a good guy.

Nora, unless you've seen the permits, you have no clue whether or not they actually exist.

Until I see them I say al's a lying sack of crap.

Post the permits you have said YOU and then YOUR partner HAVE al.

 

[nora]

Nora, unless you've seen the permits, you have no clue whether or not they actually exist.

Until I see them I say al's a lying sack of crap.

Post the permits you have said YOU and then YOUR partner HAVE al.

Al, I know joe doesnt want to get involved, but at least get him to send you a copy of the permits so you can post them.

 

[nora]

.
hell I've known joe for a little over 3 years, and I know he's got the permits, he's even gone to school for FWC to become an fwc officer..I think he knows well and good what the rules are.

oops.. correction: joe's only gone or still is goin to school for general law enforcement stuff... its one of the2.

but all and all he knows the rules and regulations that he needs to follow per FWC guidelines.

 

[Phobos]

Correction: Joe is involved with local law inforcement and not Fish & Wildlife.

What I think happened is my money went towards shipping the items this guy owed Justyn. I am not saying that's a fact since I have no way of proving it at present. I got nothing from over there. I knew the shipment that went to him contained animals that did not match my invoiced list, so USF&WS opened it they let it go through to Justyn. Had it matched the list of animals I provided USF&WS would have confiscated the entire shipment till it was sorted out.

At that point I asked Justyn what he knew about it and gave me "Attitude" about going behind his back to his exporter, which is not at all true. Joe had contact with this guy long before I even knew he exsisted. Plus the exporter said he had NO US importer, so we tried to order some snakes. Besides, any business looks for as many buyers for his good as they can find.

This is when he offered to help and I thanked him for any help he could give me but I said he was NOT on the hook for the problem. (Most of that is in the emails he posted) I just tried to explain to him that it was in his best interest to convince Mr. Aime to send my $$ back because if I had to file a Federal Complaint with USF&WS throught the courts they would confiscate anything Aime sent, effective shutting off his source. I was not threatening HIM but my actions would effect his business as you can see.

Well Justyn flipped out and that's when all this started and he takes potshots at me with threads like this one, throwing anything he can to make me look bad. As classidied ad manager for the SHHS website, it's my job to police the site for "scams" and solve disputes. I deleted his ad's because he was a known scammer, like I said and was supported by Karl Betz and Chris Harper, webmasters. It had nothing to do with the Aime problem, I was just doing my job at SHHS. Was I to look the other way because I had done business with him, NO. The users of that site relyed on me to do that job, I could not be negligent and allow him to post and perhaps rip somebody else off. In hind site I should have just alerted Karl to the situation and let him deal with Justyn.

This is all I will say about this whole thread. I have no access to any of the permits etc. that are being requested since they are in Joe's possession. I posted the email at the point I came in contact with Aime for the first time.

It's find it very interesting that people who don't know me at ALL and have no contact with people I interact with can just simply slander me by siding with Mr. Miller, someone who has an established track record of being a thief and pathological liar. It's one thing to say that Al acted unethical in your opinion, as some have suggested but to be called a "scumbag" by people on this site is just unbelievable. Those people will continue to slander just because they can simply because they're sitting behind a PC somewhere else in the world and don't suffer any consequences for their actions.

As some close friends suggested, if you post to that thread, you will just pour fuel to the fire, so be it. In the end this thread will not effect anything I do in the herp world. Why? I don't scam people by selling animals I don't have in my posession and cannot ship in a timely manner.

Al

 

[ravensgait]

Well you were doing alright up till you wrote this QUOTE"

It's find it very interesting that people who don't know me at ALL and have no contact with people I interact with can just simply slander me by siding with Mr. Miller, someone who has an established track record of being a thief and pathological liar. It's one thing to say that Al acted unethical in your opinion, as some have suggested but to be called a "scumbag" by people on this site is just unbelievable. Those people will continue to slander just because they can simply because they're sitting behind a PC somewhere else in the world and don't suffer any consequences for their actions.

As some close friends suggested, if you post to that thread, you will just pour fuel to the fire, so be it. In the end this thread will not effect anything I do in the herp world. Why? I don't scam people by selling animals I don't have in my posession and cannot ship in a timely manner. /QUOTE
One thing is using the word Slander which refers to the spoken word not the written word, seems your not the first to confuse the two here. Yeah we're sitting behind computer screens just like you are, hey if we went to see you or called you up on the phone how would anyone know what was asked and said.. Yeah Justyn is taking Pot Shots and has been taken to task for posting this thread ETC . One thing many fail to realise when their name gets dragged into one of these threads is that how other respond to them depends on how they themselves respond. Give the facts, try not to get personal with anyone else in the thread no matter what they say about you. Yeah that's hard but you have to do the best you can..

Another thing is the back door shots at the BOI, never a good idea. The BOI may not be perfect but it's the best tool we have and if someone is afraid to post here they really need to think about why. Fuel on the fire well that may or may not be right but I tell ya responding like you have sure doesn't help. Hey I think most of us agree that Jystyn is a low life, though we don't know you from Adam most of us are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here but post like your last one don't help you much.

By the way saying what happens here (as if you didn't care) wont affect your business is a bunch of crap and you know it ! and that statement is one that is often heard from scammers that get outed here.

Wes has asked you for some paperwork now it might be an idea to ask your buddy to get it for you. You can blank out what doesn't need to be posted publicly. I'll tell you this Wes is going to keep asking and your last post may get others to join the bandwagon.. Randy

 

[jscrick]

The only way it would be unethical is if Al signed a "Noncompete Agreement" and a "Confidentiality Agreement". I believe the damaged party would have a legal remedy in that case. Have not heard of anything like that in the herp trade, so far.
jsc

 

[Wilomn]

So al, you've got this paperwork in YOUR possession, but in reality, it's in Joe's.

Seems to me that's a lie.

al, YOU saw no problem dealing with justyn, leaving his ads on a site you admin on AS LONG AS YOU WERE BENEFITING by the relationship BUT, when you needed to take justyn to task because "his" supplier screwed YOU, all of a sudden he's a known scammer and should not be using the site you admin on.

Seems a double standard to me.

So al, you lie and have at LEAST a double standard that you have used to further your business and take away justyn's.

My, how ETHICAL you are, a true pillar of the reptile community. Actaully, more like the stump the outhouse of the reptile community is leaned up against.

YOU said YOU had the permit in hand. I say the permit never existed.

Prove me wrong. I'll be magnanimous about it, I'll even appologize about it. If you don't maybe I'll start another thread about your lying and lack of ethics and double standards. Maybe I'll head over to TRR, where I'm in good standing and ask what they, the ones who told you not to ad fuel to the fire, think of your actions, not you as a person.

You see, while they are your friends, they are also some stand up folks who, when pressed for honest answers, will say that they do NOT approve of the way you've acted, even though they may understand why you acted like such a scumbag. The distinction is signifigant and it WILL affect your business.

Your turn there al, whatcha got?

 

[kmurphy]

al, YOU saw no problem dealing with justyn, leaving his ads on a site you admin on AS LONG AS YOU WERE BENEFITING by the relationship BUT, when you needed to take justyn to task because "his" supplier screwed YOU, all of a sudden he's a known scammer and should not be using the site you admin on.

I agree Wes, the timing is questionable.

 

[Wilomn]

http://thereptileroom.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=12323&hl=

Seems al is feeling the heat a bit. He also seems unable to fight his own fights.

 

[Wilomn]

Well, it seem ol al does indeed have something to hide.

I posted on TRR, copied my post from here in fact, and he deleted it.

It violated no TRR rules.

It's kind of like throwing down the gauntlet al. You do realize that, don't you?

 

[Gary O]

Hey Wes,

I know you went after the permit thing becuase Al does not have it Joe does. you want to catch him in a lie. You know I am a very upfront person.

Here is the way I see this thing

1) Al wanted some animals and imported them with a person that could.

2) Al gets ripped off. Not by Justyn but by the exporter.

3) Al sees that the airbill number is going to Justyn and he starts thinking "WHAT IS GOING ON"

4) Al contacts Justyn about this and Justyn says I will help if I can.

5) Al says cool. Becuase if I follow through with this. This exporter maybe shut down effecting your business. Justyn took this as a threat to him. It was not. It would just effect Justyn as this contact would be going through a tough time. nothing more. Justyn still thinks this is a threat to him

6) We have this thread and now poeple wanting to see paper work. When infact Justyn has nothing to do with this.

What will the paper work prove. Al said it is not his. It is not. Joe is not on trial either is Al or Justyn. people honestly need to step back and look at this.

 

[Wilomn]

Hey Wes,

I know you went after the permit thing becuase Al does not have it Joe does. you want to catch him in a lie. You know I am a very upfront person.

Here is the way I see this thing

1) Al wanted some animals and imported them with a person that could.

2) Al gets ripped off. Not by Justyn but by the exporter.

3) Al sees that the airbill number is going to Justyn and he starts thinking "WHAT IS GOING ON"

4) Al contacts Justyn about this and Justyn says I will help if I can.

5) Al says cool. Becuase if I follow through with this. This exporter maybe shut down effecting your business. Justyn took this as a threat to him. It was not. It would just effect Justyn as this contact would be going through a tough time. nothing more. Justyn still thinks this is a threat to him

6) We have this thread and now poeple wanting to see paper work. When infact Justyn has nothing to do with this.

What will the paper work prove. Al said it is not his. It is not. Joe is not on trial either is Al or Justyn. people honestly need to step back and look at this.

gary, as I outlined, in great detail on your site, this isn't only about the permit.

I must say that I am abashed and sorry and just plain stupified that you of all people, if in fact it was you, deleted the thread I started about al.

He lied.

He did business with justyn, allowing him to do business on another site which al was staff on AS LONG AS al WAS BENIFITTING. When al got screwed, all of a sudden al felt the need to warn and protect the reptile community about and from justyn. Hmmmm, interesting timing there.

I posted in the thread al started on TRR, the one where he wimped out and asked TRR members to come here and support him, and he deleted my post, which violated NONE of the TRR rules.

I then started a thread, which also violated none of the TRR rules, outlining al and his lies and double standards and abuse of position to hide the lies and double standard and after you and I had several comments to each other that entire thread disappeared because the only conclusion one could come to when presented with all the evidence was that al was a liar, a double dealer, so to speak, and someone who would abuse his position of authority to hide his scumbaggitry.

Quit trying to make this about papers and look at the big picture. The fact that al said HE had the permits in hand, when in fact he did not, which is yet ANOTEHR lie, is of relevance but not the only fact of relevance.

He's shown a habit of lying, covering it up, using a heavy hand, complaining to his friends without giveing them all the facts, and abusing his authority.

He's a scumbag. He's a liar.

 

[Wilomn]

I just had contact with Gary. He said he did NOT delete the thread I started. I must conclude that it was al, trying to hide the facts again.

Gary, my appologies. I am SO glad you did not do that. You have no idea.

 

[Wilomn]

I wonder who, since I don't think Gary would, has disabled my ability to make posts over on TRR?

I wonder who is a mod over there, cough al cough, that has something he wants to hide?

I wonder if this was a wise move on his part.

Where's the permit old man.

 

[fishmich]

Well, it seem ol al does indeed have something to hide.

I posted on TRR, copied my post from here in fact, and he deleted it.

It violated no TRR rules.

It's kind of like throwing down the gauntlet al. You do realize that, don't you?

maybe it was deleted because trr is one of the few sites that are worth visiting and it doesnt need this kind of garbage. i dont know al personally, but i know he has a good rep and i dont see how people see him as a bad guy. i dont think any of this in any will affect his good name. justyn on the other hand does have a bad rep and although it doesnt seem like hes done anything wrong this time, i cant figure out why hes got all worked up over this. what al did at the shhs site is what he should have done. his job their is to protect people who visit the classified section from possible problems and thats what he did. to me it just seems this like this is way bigger than it should be and bringing it here will probably prove to be much worse for justyn than it will for al. it seems to me that al is a trustworthy guy and is well respected in the venomous community, i doubt any of this will change that.
~bill

 

[Gary O]

Well again Wes ASSumes things before he knows the facts. Starts posting half cocked and makes himself look like a fool.

I did not delete one thing over there. I get home from work and guess what I have an PM from you. Someone that does not visit my site that often. Complaining something got deleted. I see you posted it again. I even replied to the new thread. Saying that you calling names and EVERYONE else calling names was not going to fly. That is all I did. If a mod or an admin felt that post needed deleted becuase of the name calling then cool.

name calling will not happen. the only reason you want over there was to cuase chaos on another site.

My outline above is what happened. Both peoples stories line right up with it.

Do I know what happend on the venomous site. NOPE. I do not care either. As Their site admins already handled it. I do not tell other admins what to do. They handled it the way they wanted to.

If Al said he had the permits he messed up and he also said he did not have them. IN THIS VERY THREAD! He said he did not have them. So if he did say that in an email or where ever you seen this he already admitted he did not.

You dive into these things so hard sometimes. This time you messed up Wes. Accusing me of something I did not do. I am reading PM after PM and email after email over this. you DRAGGING someone else into it. You assuming stuff untill you hit on something. That is what you are doing.

"this person did it"

"no no this person did"

"no no no this person did"

Bro really I like you. I think you are good people but damn man. Really, Look at this.....


1) Al wanted some animals and imported them with a person that could.

2) Al gets ripped off. Not by Justyn but by the exporter.

3) Al sees that the airbill number is going to Justyn and he starts thinking "WHAT IS GOING ON"

4) Al contacts Justyn about this and Justyn says I will help if I can.

5) Al says cool. Becuase if I follow through with this. This exporter maybe shut down effecting your business. Justyn took this as a threat to him. It was not. It would just effect Justyn as this contact would be going through a tough time. nothing more. Justyn still thinks this is a threat to him

6) We have this thread and now poeple wanting to see paper work. When infact Justyn has nothing to do with this

That is the deal........... That is what I see. I see niether person i nthe wrong.

How did permits come into this? The only and I MEAN ONLY other thing I see you might and I say MIGHT have a leg to stand on is the ads on the venomous site. But you do not know the details. I do not know the details. I can not comment on them. And I am not going to email the admins of that site to ask them. If they felt wrong doing was done then they will act on it.

Should I say wes you are a scumbag for going off on my brother that time he said we get Hypo False Water Cobras for 35 bucks. You went off half cocked there to. Sometimes mistakes are made. You backed right off when I came in and posted the pics and said yes I get them at that prise. But when my brother said it man there was no way...and he was just lieing about it.

Also how someone gets their animals should not even matter. Al and Joe both would not be importing illegaly. As they would be caught pretty fast lol.

So Al's only sin is Doing business with Justyn then not going around praising him. Then when he is ripped off he asked Justyn about it as the airbill # he was given was being shipped to Justyn. So Al questioned it. About the ads. It could have been bad timing. But like I said I can not comment on it as I am not the site owner.

 

[Gary O]

I am sorry everyone but I have to go do something away from the PC. I can not be here.

I will be back.

 

[nora]

Wes why is it that you're always right and everyone's wrong?

The thing is that Joe had been talking to the same exporter long before Al had any knowledge of it.