Bad Guy Alexander Huang is a Snake Theif!

[shelley7950]

Lucille--Here's a link:http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stuspa18pacsa_5511.htm#s5511

It's section 5511 subsection "c" of the Pa. State Crimes code...the key phrases are "any animal" (includes reptiles), "duty of care", and "belonging to himself or another"....Although these laws are specific to Pennsylvania it's my understanding all states have similar or identical laws, at least as far as "duty of care" and depriving any animal of vet care goes...

Shelley Rosenberg

 

[Lucille]

Lucille--Here's a link:http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stuspa18pacsa_5511.htm#s5511

It's section 5511 subsection "c" of the Pa. State Crimes code...the key phrases are "any animal" (includes reptiles), "duty of care", and "belonging to himself or another"....Although these laws are specific to Pennsylvania it's my understanding all states have similar or identical laws, at least as far as "duty of care" and depriving any animal of vet care goes...

Shelley Rosenberg

The summary describes the statute as pertaining to domestic animals and zoo animals. Please cite where you find 1) that reptiles are included and 2) the definition of 'animal'.

In addition, the phrases 'to which he has a duty of care' and 'deprived of veterinary care' are certainly subject to interpretation. Alex did all in his power to notify the owner, ask the owner, etc. for money so these critters could see a vet.
I think merely being in possession is not going to get an automatic conviction, otherwise sick animals everywhere would be dumped on hapless possessors, a box of sick kittens left on a doorstep should not obligate the homeowner to thousands in care.

 

[shelley7950]

Lucille--"any animal" means exactly what it says--any animal....our office has successfully prosecuted on reptile cases many times....as well as wild turkeys, pigeons, mice, etc.

This kind of situation is not that uncommon...for what it's worth, the legal way to handle this is to contact the actual owner in writing and give him/her an ultimatum--"If you do not contact me by (pick a date) with either money for vet care, or come and remove the animals, I will turn the animals over to a rescue group or animal shelter where they can either be treated or euthanized." Then follow through...

I'm not saying I think Alex SHOULD be prosecuted, I'm just making the point that he could be, at least under Pennsylvania law...Anyone caught in this position should call their local humane society, explain the situation, and find out where they stand legally...what you cannot do is simply sit by and watch animals die...I realize it's a difficult position to be in, but there are options and alternatives available...

 

[Lucille]

--"If you do not contact me by (pick a date) with either money for vet care, or come and remove the animals, I will turn the animals over to a rescue group or animal shelter where they can either be treated or euthanized." Then follow through...
.

I think that this is a good solution, someone was asking about breeder loan contracts and I'd definitely include this in such a contract.

 

[2ndGenSnakeDude]

Well I only read the first page of this, however the he said she said bs is a tragedy. Now most people will never want to deal with either party.

 

[Celtic Constrictors]

Ya know, someone really ought to make make a template for a breeder loan contract and make it a sticky...

There would be no excuses for not having one, then.

Chris made a good point too about 1.1 Juvenile snakes being loaned for breeding. Odd...

 

[Lucille]

Ya know, someone really ought to make make a template for a breeder loan contract and make it a sticky...

That's a great idea, maybe someone could start a thread in one of the forums.

 

[SoCalAce]

I agree that I would not do business with either of these guys. It's a mess.

What the heck kind of "breeder loan" involves giving up "22" snakes? The only thing I understand is a "stud" loan. Is this something that goes on more than I am aware of? Also, you can't loan someone snakes that you have only had for seven days. It's just wrong.

On top of all that, how often is anyone needing to provide Baytril to captive bred ball pythons? The conditions must have been horrendous. How often do a bunch of "het VPI axanthics" end up in a bucket all together for a picture like that?

I would have never posted if I was either one of these guys. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."- A. Lincoln

 

[HerpVenue]

if you do not posses the "know how", to take care of animals, or if you do not have the financial resources, then do not agree to take them in.

 

[Huangalex4321]

if you do not posses the "know how", to take care of animals, or if you do not have the financial resources, then do not agree to take them in.

I do "know how"....
I didn't know he wouldn't give them care..
His snakes..
His finances..
I'm TAKING CARE OF THEM... FOR him.
I'm so done with all of this stupid crap.

He has embarrassed me in public..
Choked me at a reptile expo.
Lied to people.
It's ridiculous... I'm hurt and pissed that this stupid bullshit thread will never go away..

 

[Huangalex4321]

I agree that I would not do business with either of these guys. It's a mess.

What the heck kind of "breeder loan" involves giving up "22" snakes? The only thing I understand is a "stud" loan. Is this something that goes on more than I am aware of? Also, you can't loan someone snakes that you have only had for seven days. It's just wrong.

On top of all that, how often is anyone needing to provide Baytril to captive bred ball pythons? The conditions must have been horrendous. How often do a bunch of "het VPI axanthics" end up in a bucket all together for a picture like that?

I would have never posted if I was either one of these guys. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."- A. Lincoln

He was following repticon around the states and at the time didn't trust his right hand man Colten I guess... So he offered me to take care of them.
When I first got the snakes... First laid eyes on them... They where ice cold, skinny, dehydrated, some had stuck eye caps..
And it only got worse from there..

Brian said 4 things to me through out the time I first got them and them dying.

- They are CB.
- They are WC, Shit happens.
- They where cheap anyways.
- Don't worry about it bud, I have a little bit more.

They got skinnier and more screwed up.... And one by one they started dying.
I still don't get how it's my fault that his CB/WC whatever snakes where sick and died due to him refusing vet care.. I didn't think he would say no to HIS sick snakes .. What am I supposed to do?
Give them back? How? He's around the US.
But wait... Oh yeah that means if I give them back I loose MY 3 snakes I gave him.. And those snakes just die in his care because he wouldn't even try to save them considering they are always in storage boxes in deli cups... At least how he used to have them..

Not a bunch where het VPI Axanthic....
It was TSK... But only one male spider is.
The only other axanthics it had from him was 2 adult female visual tsk.


They where 'dinkers' kind of like hurricanes.
That was his favorite project...
Dinker this, dinker that...

 

[HerpVenue]

I do "know how"....
I didn't know he wouldn't give them care..
His snakes..
His finances..
I'm TAKING CARE OF THEM... FOR him.
I'm so done with all of this stupid crap.

He has embarrassed me in public..
Choked me at a reptile expo.
Lied to people.
It's ridiculous... I'm hurt and pissed that this stupid bullshit thread will never go away..

yeah, yeah. drama like this seems to always be around you.

all I am saying is, take your part of the responsibility or just say no to the whole thing. I am not taking sides. I am merely pointing out that you seem to be shrugging of your part of the responsibility of caring for the animals. Caring for the animals does include vet care.

 

[SoCalAce]

I see. So the "2.10 100% het VPI axanthic" was actually just a bucket full of wild caught adults, fresh from the importer? That makes more sense to me. I don't remember anyone mentioning anything about some of them being wild caught, but that explains why they were dropping off so quickly. You'd have to quit your day job to be able to provide a group of sickly imported ball pythons the care they need to survive, and realistically they would probably have just died anyway. The days of dealing with imported balls should be over, but I guess everyone is still trying to get "that special one."

I don't like either side of the story, but in my opinion Alex's side almost holds water, and Brian's side seems really odd. Why would you "loan" that many snakes to someone? Especially if it's your cherished ghost project. The discrepancy of how many and what types of snakes will be impossible to prove on either side.

I'm reminded of an episode of Judge Judy. A guy gave a boat to a broker to sell, and without receiving payment, gave him a car to sell. Over six months the guy gave up like $10,000 of stuff to sell, without ever getting a penny. All the judge could ask is "How stupid can you be to just keep giving your stuff to this guy that isn't paying you?"

 

[Huangalex4321]

yeah, yeah. drama like this seems to always be around you.

all I am saying is, take your part of the responsibility or just say no to the whole thing. I am not taking sides. I am merely pointing out that you seem to be shrugging of your part of the responsibility of caring for the animals. Caring for the animals does include vet care.

These do not belong to me...
My responsibilities is to clean, feed, water and breed these animals.
IF they where to get sick then the owner would pay for whatever the snake needed.. Why? Because it is his snake..

I did all I could...
Gave them heat, water, tried giving them food, fixed some respiratory infections..
I am NOT going to take these snakes to the vet and pay out of MY pocket when he would never pay me back..
example: I gave Colten Jones my snakes to ship to Brian to sell for me in FL about a little under 60 weeks ago.
He NEVER brought them back up after he got them nor did he ever send me money or new snakes months after I brought up my snakes and asked if he ever sold them and he lied to me saying they died.... I left it alone and asked him again later on and he told me he has to use the money for his trip and he would pay me back in AZ... And then he pops up into AZ wanting his remaining snakes back? Heck no.


I have at least 5 people to vouch me on this situation..


I have been trying to be so calm about this situation..

Bottom line is.. I was supposed to care for and breed his snakes.
They where all underweight and didnt want to eat on top of some with RI..
Those are just the snakes he gave me in the beginning and I FINALLY got them to eat a while ago..

And then he gave me those CB/WC balls..

I cant pay for the vet bill..
I cant give them away.
I cant breed them.
Put them down.
RI, skinny, stuck shed, eyecaps, some had mouth rot...
No appetite for anything...


Even though they where sick or not old/big enough he STILL wanted them to be bred..

He didn't want them back because he had no time to treat them while he was on the road.

SO PLEASE explain how this is all my fault?

 

[Huangalex4321]

I see. So the "2.10 100% het VPI axanthic" was actually just a bucket full of wild caught adults, fresh from the importer? That makes more sense to me. I don't remember anyone mentioning anything about some of them being wild caught, but that explains why they were dropping off so quickly. You'd have to quit your day job to be able to provide a group of sickly imported ball pythons the care they need to survive, and realistically they would probably have just died anyway. The days of dealing with imported balls should be over, but I guess everyone is still trying to get "that special one."

I don't like either side of the story, but in my opinion Alex's side almost holds water, and Brian's side seems really odd. Why would you "loan" that many snakes to someone? Especially if it's your cherished ghost project. The discrepancy of how many and what types of snakes will be impossible to prove on either side.

I'm reminded of an episode of Judge Judy. A guy gave a boat to a broker to sell, and without receiving payment, gave him a car to sell. Over six months the guy gave up like $10,000 of stuff to sell, without ever getting a penny. All the judge could ask is "How stupid can you be to just keep giving your stuff to this guy that isn't paying you?"

Oh wow haha I didn't pay attention to that..
They defiantly where not hets of any kind (That we knew of)..
He never mentioned that until this post..





<-- This is what I feel like is going on..
sigh..

 

[HerpVenue]

did you send him animals to sell before or after his snakes needed a vet visit?

 

[HerpVenue]

I do "know how"....
I didn't know he wouldn't give them care..
His snakes..
His finances..
I'm TAKING CARE OF THEM... FOR him.
I'm so done with all of this stupid crap.

He has embarrassed me in public..
Choked me at a reptile expo.
Lied to people.
It's ridiculous... I'm hurt and pissed that this stupid bullshit thread will never go away..

I am also curious about the choking you at an expo.
Do people choke anyone anymore? Specially publicly?
You sure he was not playing around?
I mean that is a pretty big accusation. Were you guys fighting? Did he say anything or did he just start chocking you for no reason?
And who are these five people who can vouch for you?
And where are these five people who can vouch for you?