Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

[Chameleon Company]

Mark .....

Maybe you should just ask Rich if you can go back and rewrite my posts.

I take issue with both parties here, Bryon and Allen. I know that can be confusing.

 

[Otter_23]

I apologize Jim, when your yelling one point and whispering the other some of the important stuff gets lost.

 

[Fedawg]

Maybe you should just ask Rich if you can go back and rewrite my posts.

I take issue with both parties here, Bryon and Allen. I know that can be confusing.

Or , maybe you should reread your own posts.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Anyone can disagree as to why , how or anything I else I did to bring this here. Really doesn't matter. Unfortunately information in some posts have been buried in all this drivel . In my eyes alot of space and time was wasted as to " Bry , were you in a bad mood " or Bry , what drove you to this " .

Allen has posted here once , he contradicted himself in that one post but more time and effort was directed at me. Can we please get back to what this thread is really about?

 

[WebSlave]

Bryon ........ errr "dude",
I believe I can accurately say that only I and one other person raised questions about your motivations here, and I believe some called them "tough questions". The other party earned a suspension and fine. The thread is loaded with support for you and condemnation for Allen. Even I had some posts sympathetic to you. I just don't agree with all aspects of how you handled this. I think you made some mistakes.

Did I actually talk to Alabama DNR before you? Have you even contacted them?

Lori,
Thanks. People have lost a few things here. Allen is absolutley wrong. Post #1 made that clear. My first post, #27, said Allen was wrong. I have said it a half dozen times and a half dozen ways since. But I am the only one not-suspended saying that IMO Bryon made a few huge mistakes ....... 3 by my count. If that's Allen-leaning, so be it. But I do appreciate your level-headedness.

Jim, I am sure it is not your intention, but the way you have worded those two posts implies that the "other party" was suspended and fined BECAUSE you and he were "saying that IMO Bryon made a few huge mistakes". I am sure you just worded those statements poorly, and there is some concern that someone not reading what actually happened may feel I was taking sides in this issue. The flatly is not true. All of the members who were fined and suspended were done so for derogatory name calling they had engaged in within this thread. It didn't matter one whit whom it was directed towards.

I felt this needed to be clarified to keep some people from getting a mistaken impression from your words.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Lest anyone doubt where I stand. I think Allen's reptile room, as pictured needs a lot of work.

I think animals are kept in substandard conditions. There are no excuses, because we all know that better is very possible. Whether for business or animal compassion reasons, it makes sense. I would not recommend buying from him at this juncture. I'm inclined to think that this episode has had a positive effect on him realizing the need to do better. Time will tell.

Bottom-line, we all agree (in our humble opinions) on the essential points. I personally have trouble considering or extending a benefit to someone once they try to deceive.

Now to address the issues: In most of the photos the water has been recently spilled. What one person has called mold is in fact Spagnum moss not molded bedding.

That statement is false. In my opinion, that is a fact. Unless, Allen denies he owns one of the tubs pictured.

Everyone can debate the reasons why this thread was posted but it still does not negate the information brought forward.

To be fair, those questioning the multiple regurgitations, It's not surprising a wholesaler would have as many as Allen has stated, within his imports. It would only be alarming if it were within is CBB animals.

 

[Junkyard]

Allen, I am (and I am sure certainly everyone else is) still waiting for you to come answer some questions here. Your silence is not doing you any good.

 

[BryonsBoas]

The lamp inside the boas caging is there because that female had a mild case of upper respitory and the vet told me to raise her temps for 7 to 10 days.

Where is the t-stat or some form of heat control?

You were wrong! We will see each other again when we appear in a court of law and you are rendered your verdict to the childish and untrue allegations you made vindictively toward me personally and my business and my partnerships in other businesses

I don't see your partners name anywhere .

.Then the pic of a rodent in with a snake, you can tell this rodent has just been put in with this snake. How? Because it is either still alive for one or is not dirty from being in a cage for days as suggested. Because surely Bryon did not give

Those animals were fed on Monday before I left. YOU never bothered to check those tubs for 2 days . I was making a delivery to south AL all day Tuesday, I pulled that mouse out on Weds. Building is in your backyard , couldn't take 20 minutes to walk out there on Monday evening to check for non feeders?

And then comes the pic of a regurgitated mouse, about three to four times a week this happens to some snake in some gage. And I agree it is nasty to see and even worse to clean-up.

Did you not see the dead bugs in the water bowl and in the tub? That animals was in your BREEDING RACK.

I feel much better knowing that I went through and picked out the ones I knew belonged and save Bryon the embarrassment of people finding out of the mistake he had made. Bottom line lack of communication between Bryon and myself was the key that could have kept this from happening. I do know that everyone who purchased one of those animals got what they paid for though.
As for Bryon: The e-mail that I sent him that he has posted was before I knew of this thread

What should I have been embarrassed about?
Are you backtracking on your e-mail where you stated that you knew you marked normals as poss hets? How in the world are you comfortable with " knowing " everyone who bought a poss het got one after you already said you marked normals?

Allen , you have got to be kidding me. In your only post you lost yourself credibility with some of those remarks.

getting side tracked on his personal agenda rather than keeping up with the business

Sidetracked with what? I had a personal agenda?

But the only big problem I had with him was about ten days ago when he brought a sick het for snow boa to the vet and then brought her in and put her in my facility with my animals. This was completely out of line and was addressed and asked that he remove her right then. He did so and was very unhappy but did not argue at all because he knew he had done wrong. The snake died the next day from a severe case of mouth rot. This can be verified through Benning road animal hospital in Columbus GA

UMMMM , dude , your facility was completely empty at the time . Wanna lie about me , try something better dude. Oh Oh Oh , lemme guess , You'll claim I broke in and stole your stuff right? Maybe burn somethingdown. You know , the same thing you were accusing William of behind his back.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Allen, I am (and I am sure certainly everyone else is) still waiting for you to come answer some questions here. Your silence is not doing you any good.

He won't do it most likely . He had people call me for him to deliver his threat of putting me in jail if I didn't pull this thread. I have left an open line of communication to Allen via e-mail ( I have my reasons ) but instead of using it he opted to hide behind other folks instead of threatening me himself.

 

[Junkyard]

Sends out people to threaten you, huh? That is not very nice, I do not think that is legal either.

 

[BryonsBoas]

I guess that what " legit " guys do .

 

[Chameleon Company]

"Doesn't really matter......." Hmmmmmm

Bryon says: Anyone can disagree as to why , how or anything I else I did to bring this here. Really doesn't matter. Unfortunately information in some posts have been buried in all this drivel . In my eyes alot of space and time was wasted as to " Bry , were you in a bad mood " or Bry , what drove you to this " .

This would be my 35th post here. If you think it all has so effectively buried the 130+ posts that were supportive of you, or negative towards Allen ..... Among other things, there's a compliment in there for me. I thank you.

To Otter 23. Otter writes:

I apologize Jim, when your yelling one point and whispering the other some of the important stuff gets lost.

Amazing view Otter. Does this imply that those who have a different view have been balanced in their criticisms? Since the majority of the posts have "yelled and whispered" in the other direction (frankly, there weren't even whispers .... just one-way "yelling"), did important stuff get lost? Is this synonymous with several pots calling one kettle black?

Bryon, those that have difficulty accepting that I have disagreement with your conduct as an employee of Allen's, and responsible choices that I believe you failed to make, can crow this up to as long of a thread as they care to. If they post enough, they may be able to get the ratio up to 85-90% either supportive of you, or at least "How dare anyone post that does not attack Allen". I guess there just aren't enough anti Allen posts to satisfy everyone's ego.

Obviously, for most here it is about Allen's poor husbandry, etc, from your mouth and your camera, and to the extent that he has acknowledged such. You took actions that I have tremendous difficulty giving a pass to, and making this a BOI issue is not one of them. It is easy to see my criticisms as an attack on your character. I do disagree with choices you made in the past 4-6 days. I have no clue if they represent your everyday conduct, or were simply poor choices made under a specific situation of duress.

With some in this thread, I believe we have been able to agree to disagree. With a few others ...... disagreement seems a difficult pill to swallow. Good fortunes in your next endeavor.

 

[norsmis]

Wow this thread blew up after I went to bed last night. First off, I will say if anyone here has a problem understanding Jim's post maybe you should take an English class. He is a well respected member of this board (unlike some of you who like to cause as much drama as possible) and although his opinions may differ slightly does not make him wrong. I stated before that I see Jim's actions as only goading both sides to get the entire truth out and some of you seem to think Jim is only goading Bryon when in fact, Jim stated numerous times that he spoke to Allen on the phone. Bryon chose to air his side here. So to say Jim is being biased in this is ridiculous as Jim stated NUMEROUS times in his postings that he DID NOT agree with the way Allen is treating his animals and authorities should be contacted. What Jim was trying to get out of Bryon was his reason for bringing this public; was it personal or was Bryon's only motive the health and welfare of the animals? And yes I can see Jim taking a business man's approach to all of this because lets say Bryon's motives (I am not accusing Bryon of anything at all, just being hypothetical) were less than honorable and one of you decided to hire him in your shop. Lets say Bryon got mad at you and exposed your shop on a bad day (again, I am not saying Allen's actions are correct because they are not). Wouldn't all of you like to know that this person shouldn't be trusted? I am not trying to speak for Jim but only giving you what I see as his motives in a nutshell. We can all tell by the pics that Allen's husbandry practices are far less than desirable but shouldn't we all also knowwhat kind of employee Bryon is?
Jim, I respect your opinion on these matters and can see where you are coming from. Thanks for your input and for making people here think about the entire situation instead of just one side.

 

[Bill & Amy]

And yes I can see Jim taking a business man's approach to all of this because lets say Bryon's motives (I am not accusing Bryon of anything at all, just being hypothetical) were less than honorable and one of you decided to hire him in your shop. Lets say Bryon got mad at you and exposed your shop on a bad day (again, I am not saying Allen's actions are correct because they are not). Wouldn't all of you like to know that this person shouldn't be trusted? I am not trying to speak for Jim but only giving you what I see as his motives in a nutshell. We can all tell by the pics that Allen's husbandry practices are far less than desirable but shouldn't we all also knowwhat kind of employee Bryon is?
.

First, I understand why Jim is taking this position and why you back him up. That is not the issue, Jim does not know what kind of employee Bryon was. The only people that do are Bryon and Allen. Bryon is here defending his actions, Allen has made one statement. For Jim to answer any of those questions is just "grasping at air". Allen is the only on that should be saying or asking those questions.

I want to ask you a question Jim, Is it possible that the stuff Allen told you on the phone is a lie to cover his own butt?

As far as us questioning Bryon's quality of work, I think that can only be answered by Allen and I think when he asked him to come back to work in his email, it answered that question.

I remind everyone the topic of this thread is the quality of husbandry at Big Daddy's Wholesale with a warning to those who purchase there. I think we all agree that the husbandry is lacking and the health of the animals is at risk.

 

[kmurphy]

Wow this thread blew up after I went to bed last night. First off, I will say if anyone here has a problem understanding Jim's post maybe you should take an English class. He is a well respected member of this board (unlike some of you who like to cause as much drama as possible) and although his opinions may differ slightly does not make him wrong. I stated before that I see Jim's actions as only goading both sides to get the entire truth out and some of you seem to think Jim is only goading Bryon when in fact, Jim stated numerous times that he spoke to Allen on the phone. Bryon chose to air his side here. So to say Jim is being biased in this is ridiculous as Jim stated NUMEROUS times in his postings that he DID NOT agree with the way Allen is treating his animals and authorities should be contacted. What Jim was trying to get out of Bryon was his reason for bringing this public; was it personal or was Bryon's only motive the health and welfare of the animals? And yes I can see Jim taking a business man's approach to all of this because lets say Bryon's motives (I am not accusing Bryon of anything at all, just being hypothetical) were less than honorable and one of you decided to hire him in your shop. Lets say Bryon got mad at you and exposed your shop on a bad day (again, I am not saying Allen's actions are correct because they are not). Wouldn't all of you like to know that this person shouldn't be trusted? I am not trying to speak for Jim but only giving you what I see as his motives in a nutshell. We can all tell by the pics that Allen's husbandry practices are far less than desirable but shouldn't we all also knowwhat kind of employee Bryon is?
Jim, I respect your opinion on these matters and can see where you are coming from. Thanks for your input and for making people here think about the entire situation instead of just one side.

Well said, I agree completely.

 

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[Justin Mitcham]

A little different view on the matter...

Bryon....The conditions depicted in the pictures are deplorable at best...but one thing does bother me about your posts.. I have a long history of working with wholesalers, over 10 year to be exact, several years ago I was in basically the same situation you were, one person hired to clean ,pack,ship ,inspect , feed etc...one person taking care of all aspects of the animals, and were not talking just a few hundred , but thousands of animals so I know how daunting and seemingly impossible such a task can seem....
But I did it... my schedule was 9am-5pm , for one week straight I worked until the wee hours of the morning to clean, feed and catch up on stuff I couldn't do earlier...I was paid on salary, my job was to do everything,drop off shipments, receive , make sells calls etc... as well as maintain the animals. No matter how busy or overloaded I became I still found time to make sure the animals were taking care of even if it meant staying all night...it was a responsibility that I undertook ethically and business wise.. (then there were my own animals at home!!!). If you felt so strongly that you did not have the opportunity to clean them on company time then why didn't you make extra time , come in on the weekends etc..?
What we saw in the pics happened on your watch PERIOD...was your paid responsibility to make sure it didn't happen. Wether led off task or not...it is your responsibility in the end!!!
If at the end of the day the job is not done and it is time to go home and you do...no matter how much BS or crap you endured that day..you are as responsible as Allen for letting things get and stay that way.
IMO

 

[norsmis]

Bryon....The conditions depicted in the pictures are deplorable at best...but one thing does bother me about your posts.. I have a long history of working with wholesalers, over 10 year to be exact, several years ago I was in basically the same situation you were, one person hired to clean ,pack,ship ,inspect , feed etc...one person taking care of all aspects of the animals, and were not talking just a few hundred , but thousands of animals so I know how daunting and seemingly impossible such a task can seem....
But I did it... my schedule was 9am-5pm , for one week straight I worked until the wee hours of the morning to clean, feed and catch up on stuff I couldn't do earlier...I was paid on salary, my job was to do everything,drop off shipments, receive , make sells calls etc... as well as maintain the animals. No matter how busy or overloaded I became I still found time to make sure the animals were taking care of even if it meant staying all night...it was a responsibility that I undertook ethically and business wise.. (then there were my own animals at home!!!). If you felt so strongly that you did not have the opportunity to clean them on company time then why didn't you make extra time , come in on the weekends etc..?
What we saw in the pics happened on your watch PERIOD...was your paid responsibility to make sure it didn't happen. Wether led off task or not...it is your responsibility in the end!!!
If at the end of the day the job is not done and it is time to go home and you do...no matter how much BS or crap you endured that day..you are as responsible as Allen for letting things get and stay that way.
IMO

Well said Justin. Afterall Bryon, wasn't your point of bringing this here to help the animals and the industry as a whole?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bill and Amy,

I respectfully want to start out by saying that it is one thing to disagree, another to say that someone is wrong. One involves opinions, the other facts.

B & A ask:

I want to ask you a question Jim, Is it possible that the stuff Allen told you on the phone is a lie to cover his own butt?

Answer: Of course it is possible. But the source for all of my questions and conclusions are right here in this thread. I pursued questions based on info provided by both Bryon and Allen, but my conclusions are all based on Bryon's initial statements, or his later answers. I have also spoken to about a half-dozen other entities by phone or email, but only used whatever I gleaned there to frame questions to Bryon. Bryon's own words and actions provide the basis for all of my stated conclusions here. There is more that I have not posted here, although I have corroborating evidence. Kind of hoping Bryon would be more open about it. Again, its not about the thread being here. Its about other choices Bryon made. Those choices undermine his credibility here, IMO, and even if standing by themselves, I view them as reprehensible.

B & A say:

First, I understand why Jim is taking this position and why you back him up. That is not the issue, Jim does not know what kind of employee Bryon was.

Is this the first thread where the accusor was challenged? If anyone comes here with an accusation, the accusation is only as good as their credibility. Its always about the motives, IMO. If Bryon's motives are suspect, or he has distorted or omitted facts deemed relevent by others, or he has taken actions that go beyond what would be considered ethical by others, it may not dismiss his claims, but it sure changes them a bit. IMO.

B & A say:

I remind everyone the topic of this thread is the quality of husbandry at Big Daddy's Wholesale with a warning to those who purchase there. I think we all agree that the husbandry is lacking and the health of the animals is at risk

In that definition of topic, while some may not like it, I have been consistently on-topic. We are in complete agreement with your last sentance. With all the nay-sayers out there, who else contacted DNR ? I know of one.

Ken and Ron, much thanks.

 

[hers]

What we saw in the pics happened on your watch PERIOD...was your paid responsibility to make sure it didn't happen. Wether led off task or not...it is your responsibility in the end!!!
If at the end of the day the job is not done and it is time to go home and you do...no matter how much BS or crap you endured that day..you are as responsible as Allen for letting things get and stay that way.
IMO

This is so far off base, I don't even know where to begin. To suggest in any way, shape, or form, this is Bryons fault is ridiculous at best! As a business owner, it is Allen's responsibility to ensure the upkeep of his animals. Whether his solution was to hire another person to help, or to allow Bryon overtime via weekends or evenings to clean up and get organized. It seems that Allen was taking the cheap way out, hiring Bryon to do one job, then expecting him to do others on top of it, for other businesses. You don't get something for nothing, and there is no reason that Allen should have.