Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

[crazydart]

wow

Ok, wow this is a huge threed. I have some info to add that might help some of you who DONT live in AL. I moved here from Colorado 2 years ago. The entire state is just nuts. It really is just about how they make it out to be in the movies. There are alot of things that are still very much alive here that I was told in grade school had died off after the cival war. 10 year old girls will say things like "look at that N*gger daddy, hes stupid".... yup, not uncommon at all. Anyhow, I really think its too bad how the animals where kept, but to think any kind of legal action would work is crazy. I can just see the officer responding to this one... "The guy has snakes and mice and they are in bad conditions?!?! Well why dont you just call pest control and they will get rid of them all." Now what is a big deal is posting pics on a public website of a private business. The goal was to effect his business, by posting pictures and descriptions of what this person saw. I would say the goal has been acheived. I saw him selling 50% het pieds on his table for a very cheap price, and I asked if he would go lower and he said no, I can sell them all day long for twice that online... that was a big enough red flag for me... he knew what the real deal was worth, and marked them for half that, I moved on. Everything I saw looked to be in good health. Perhaps those of you reading this need to keep in mind where all of your beloved animals come from and eventually go to. Most come in by the thousands, and the name of the game for wholesalers is pick out dead ones, sell the good ones quick... they go to a pet shop... most petshops know who to order from and who not to. So a petshop gets in 10 BPs, still the name of the game is to sell them before they can eat much of anything... so finally it gets to someone who might care about it, its home. A 10 gallon tank and all the pig feed w/ roids mice it can eat... but it wont eat... does this person care enough to take it to a vet to be treated for all the bugs and have a vit shot? I say no, cant say I have ever taked to a single "common" folk who has taken a reptile or amphibian to a vet (good luck finding one in AL anyhow)... so now this snake will likely die because no where along the line anyone has cared. Any most of YOU are getting upset about these WELL FED animals because of a dirty cage (no I would never let any of mine look like that), but the real problem is NEVER going to be with the wholesaler, they are just trying to keep up with the demand, and in a cost effective manor. DEMAND = EVERYONE WHO OWNS A REPTILE OR AMPHIBIAN. So whats the point of this? A simple, to the point statement that conditions where very bad with this wholesaler would have done nicely, people who really gave a care about where their animals came from would do the research, and people who dont, will STILL buy from this wholesaler, no matter how long this post is, and how many pictures there are.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Ben, you need to post your full name when using the B.O.I., otherwise you will be given a warning point and mods may delete your post.

 

[Pavo]

And why does everything that you say regarding this sound like such a croc ? A "witness list"? Witnesses to the felony, I am sure !! So now we have it on your hearsay, and you have shown yourself to be such a reliable source, that the "investigator" and the POLICE both say it has been an "ongoing problem". Like so many others in this business most of my life, we all know how the POLICE get involved when there's crap in with the pythons and the water bowl has spilled !! Lets just keep throwing the tom-foolery, and hope that some will stick. If this was CSI, then maybe some of this would be remotely plausible. "The case", "the witness list", "the Police", "people coming forward cooperating". I can see it now .... "Yes, your Honor, there was too much defecation in that cage in Feb 1st .... AND HE DID IT ... THAT MAN THERE ... HE's THE PYTHON POOP CROOK !!!" Where's my deep waders ......

OK let me start by saying that I am in no way taking a position in this matter.

With that being said, I tend to think your chain of thought is wrong here.
I live in Phoenix, Arizona, but namely Maricopa County. Our Sheriff of too many years has taken a strong stand against animal cruelty and neglect. He even went as far as arrest a Postal worker for abusing a dog. We see alot in our local news about animals after raids and other reported abuses. Last year we had a truck load of aligators found. This is a constant for us, and I applaud our News and Law Enforcement agencies for keeping us informed and bringing these kind of people to justice.

I guess my point here is, anything is possible.

To quote a favorite show of mine, "The truth is out there!"

 

[crazydart]

Our Sheriff of too many years has taken a strong stand against animal cruelty and neglect.

Boy I wish that was the case here in alabama. A guy down the street has 2 pitbulls that got out on day... they chased my wife into the house and stayed on the front door. They where so hungry they tore open a sack of cracked corn that was on my porch and ate some of it (they must have been very hungry). So when I got home they chased me an my brother who was visiting... we called animal control and told them about it. they said they would send someone out. I grabed a hand gun for protection and my brother and I roped the dogs and tied them to a tree (grew up in colorado, we have the cow boy skills ) so that we could come and go with out being chased... they where slowed down because of all the corn I think. So what came of the situation? the dog owners saw the dogs and took them... when did animal control show up to help us with pitbulls that where chasing us? The next day, over 24 hours later they sent a guy in a regular car. I would say here, animal protection and enforcement is NULL. They dont care. I asked the animal control guy if its ok if I just shoot them next time (they are very well known to mangle/kill people when hungry) and he told me its not a good idea, but he would have. Gotta love alabama.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Ben, as Sam pointed out, you need to add your full name to your posts on the BOI.

Ben, you need to post your full name when using the B.O.I., otherwise you will be given a warning point and mods may delete your post.

 

[handsomeRob]

just found this.

made me want to check out the boi on this guy. glad i did.
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1031310,1031310

 

[KCRD.com]

I just did a transaction with him and it went VERY GOOD! It consisted of a trade and he shipped first when I requested and the animal I got was better than he described.

 

[Junkyard]

These are archived news articles about Allen. Take from it what you will.

Columbus Ledger-Enquirer (GA)

October 12, 2002

Edition: LEDGER-ENQUIRER
Section: LOCAL
Page: B4

FARMER CHARGED IN CATTLE THEFT
MAN ACCUSED OF ILLEGALLY SELLING 82 HEAD OF CATTLE
Author: HARRY FRANKLIN, State Editor

Article Text:

A warrant was issued Friday charging a Waverly Hall, Ga., farmer with theft of cattle after a hearing in Harris County Magistrate's Court.

Mike Blackwell, a farm owner off Ridgeway Road in Waverly Hall, took out a warrant against Allen Belcher, who bought a farm adjoining his. Blackwell said 130 head of his cattle worth $70,000 disappeared during the summer. He said evidence shows that Belcher sold 122 head of cattle over a five- to six-week period at the Americus-Sumter County Livestock Barn.

Magistrate Charlotte Brashears found probable cause to issue the warrant after Friday's hearing and set bond of $25,000 for Belcher, who was expected to be released under a property bond later Friday.

Magistrate's Court Chief Clerk Beth Moore said the court had evidence that 82 head of cattle had been sold and that Belcher received $22,000 from the sale.

Belcher claimed that Blackwell's cattle came onto his property and damaged his Winnebago home, and that Blackwell gave him permission to sell the cattle to cover the loss.

But Blackwell said Belcher came to him in June and claimed that Blackwell's cattle caused $700 damage to the home.

"Absolutely not did I tell him to sell even one head of cattle," Blackwell said. "I told him I didn't owe him anything."

Blackwell said he leased the field where his cattle were until Aug. 1, and that Belcher had bought the property and moved the Winnebago onto the tract knowing that the lease was still in effect. He said Belcher even moved some of his cattle into the field, and that they could have damaged the home.

The case goes to Harris County Superior Court.

Harry Franklin

Copyright (c) 2002 Columbus Ledger-Enquirer
Record Number: 0210120071

Columbus Ledger-Enquirer (GA)

June 3, 2003

Section: C
Page: C3

COURTS AND LAW
MAN ADMITS TO STEALING CATTLE

Article Text:

A Phenix City man pleaded guilty to livestock theft Monday in Harris County Superior Court under Georgia's First Offender Act.

Allen Belcher, also known as Alan Belcher, 31, of 2413 39th Court, was charged with taking livestock between July 1 and Oct. 3, 2002, in Waverly Hall.

Under a plea agreement, Belcher was allowed to plead guilty to a felony offense but was punished as for a misdemeanor, a court official said.

Judge Frank Jordan sentenced Belcher to 12 months probation; to pay a $1,202 fine, including statutory add-ons; and to make restitution of $30,986 to D. Michael "Mike" Blackwell and $2,766.63 to James Albright for cattle reportedly taken and sold at a Sumter County stockyard.

If Belcher successfully completes the sentence, under the First Offender's Act, his case would be stricken from court records.

Harry Franklin

Copyright (c) 2003 Columbus Ledger-Enquirer
Record Number: 0306030128

 

[varnyard]

Well it does make you stop and think. You could say that it does not have anything to do with this thread. But then again you could say it does, as it shows how honesty the person that is in question. If this would have happen a hundred and fifty years ago, Allen would have been hung. Then this thread would not exist, but that was then. IMO, it shows someone that was convicted for wrong doing, as in his admission of stealing the cattle. However it does not show that he does not care for his animals, as suggested in this thread. I am not taking sides, I have my own thoughts of what might be the truth. Would I deal with Allen? No way! I did call Allen a wile back, I asked him about each of the pictures in question. I did not like the answer he gave me for the excuse of the shape of the beardie tank. He told me that the build up in the back of that picture was crickets. The more I look at that picture, the more it makes me sick. As for the wet/soiled bedding I have my opinion on that as well. As the old saying goes, a picture speaks a thousand words. Everyone needs to look at them pictures a little better. I think they speak for themselves. But I will say this post is just my honest opinion.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

What I believe that articles show is a pattern of behavior consistant of theft, lawlessness and unethical behavior. I really wonder how many of his so called business dealings have not been discovered. Kinda make me go hmmmmm.

 

[Cat_72]

What I believe that articles show is a pattern of behavior consistant of theft, lawlessness and unethical behavior. I really wonder how many of his so called business dealings have not been discovered. Kinda make me go hmmmmm.

Laura, you took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[homegrownherps]

So, now any vendor that does a show that Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale does, has to wonder if it would be safe to leave their animals in the same building with a person like that.

I for one have more important things to deal with when I am at a show, the last thing I want to worry about is if the vendor next to me/or in the same building is stealing my stuff.

And I believe he is promoting his own show now as well.

 

[Chameleon Company]

So here's a thread, well over 300 posts long, without a single poster saying that they have been scammed or ripped off. No new reader will come to it and want to read all the posts just to see the preponderance of hot air within. And yet one participant thought that a threshold had been crossed to want to resurrect the thread, paste an article about a man's criminal conviction completely unrelated to the thread, except if one's goal were to attack someone's reputation, so that all could be made aware! Let those readers who choose to give it a look draw whatever conclusions that they care to. For the record, Allen is not the only poster in the thread with a felony conviction, and some of those calling the kettle black have convictions within the reptile industry. I am one who does not think it appropriate to find all the mud one can on a person, such that if you can't make them look bad one way, maybe you can another. Unfortunately, people make mistakes, and there are many more within the business, who do not waste their time here, who have felony convictions, both inside and outside the industry. And I guess that for the rest of their lives, if someone wants to smear them, they could find it all resurrected again. Its legal. Hey Mike, when you have the time, why don't you do some research, or get some of your friends to help, and post articles of all members of the greater community who have criminal records? Inquiring minds want to know !!

 

[The BoidSmith]

Anyone can make mistakes, but selling stolen property (that's what it actually boils down to) is something that should not be taken lightly. It was not sending a reptile of the wrong sex or mistakenly sending the wrong animal. This individual represents our hobby and business. Although maybe not one of the most visible of the reptile sellers his actions still reflect on the rest of us as a community. It’s obvious that this action is unrelated to what this thread is about but I’m with Laura and Cathy on this one, this reflects the true character of the individual and that his words should be taken not with a grain, but with a "truckload" of salt.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Nirvana]

Digging up as much dirt about a person as possible and posting it to slander that individual's reputation is one thing. There are many actions that are considered felonies by the US government; I have no doubt that many individuals on this board and in this industry are guilty of many of these actions. Indeed, not every illegal thing that a person does or has done does or should have any bearing on his or her reputation as a reptile seller.

However, the article posted indicates that Allen Belcher has admitted to stealing and reselling thirty-thousand dollars worth of cattle. Due to the laws of this day and age, there are many "crimes" that one could commit that I, as a buyer, would be willing to overlook. Theft is not one of them. In my opinion theft of any size and magnitude is morally wrong, and were I to have explicit knowledge of a vendor committing theft, it would make me think more than twice about dealing with that vendor -- most likely, my decision would be a resounding "no." The vendor of this thread is no exception.

Does Belcher's admission and conviction have any real bearing on the original topic of this thread (his alleged neglect and mistreatment of animals?) No, it really doesn't. However, the title of this thread is "Allen Blecher/Big Daddy's Wholesale ... Warning." It is intended to alert potential customers of the character of Mr. Blecher, and I believe that the news article posted is perfectly appropriate for that purpose. If he had no qualsms about stealing another man's animals to sell for his own profit, I for one would be extremely wary of purchasing a high-end animal from him -- though there have been no negative experiences posted on this thread, if theft has previously been his M.O., there are so many other wonderful ball python venders out there I would see no reason to take such a chance.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Kitt, I agree completely with this quote from your post

However, the article posted indicates that Allen Belcher has admitted to stealing and reselling thirty-thousand dollars worth of cattle. Due to the laws of this day and age, there are many "crimes" that one could commit that I, as a buyer, would be willing to overlook. Theft is not one of them. In my opinion theft of any size and magnitude is morally wrong, and were I to have explicit knowledge of a vendor committing theft, it would make me think more than twice about dealing with that vendor -- most likely, my decision would be a resounding "no." The vendor of this thread is no exception.

Agreed, we both have our limits as to what we will "overlook", as certainly most of us would not reject a vendor because a BOI post pointed out that they had a DUI. I can only say that I do not agree with bringing someone's criminal record into the BOI where it is not relevent to the claimed "wrong" by the thread starter. You and I may be willing to overlook the felony convictions of others in the industry that directly involved the sale of reptiles, as there are many offenders, and it will vary. A thread about Tom Crutchfield not too long ago was a perfect example of the mixed opinions there, although the thread had been a generic "good guy" post, and some found that difficult to swallow considering his felony convictions within the industry. The Charles Shuck thread also contained revelations about drug convictions. I am not alone in being able to name a dozen relatively big players in the reptile business, and some right at the top, who have significant criminal convictions. To coin a Fox News phrase, "we report, you decide" would be the appropriate threshold for many. I don't see it as a black and white issue, as reasonable people can disagree reasonably about it. My view is that there is and was a lot of hypocrisy in this thread , which I loathe. This guilty plea by Mr. Belcher overwhelms the other claims about his dirty cages earlier in the thread as a reflection on him. With that as the "new" standard, I guess we can expect further objective revelations about the criminal convictions of others to appear here, maybe even a new forum for Fauna, to let the reader decide. If I had the gumption and liked conspiracies, I could set someone up with a "good guy" post, fully expecting someone else to come behind me with an account of their criminal past, again letting the reader decide. It has merit ..... just not enough for me.

 

[The BoidSmith]

On a side note Allen is currently setting up a show promotion company. If you decide to be a vendor there, good luck. Allen told me of his plans in which he sells the tables for the show then slash his prices on his animals well below the vendors so they can't outsell him.

Some might think this is just a business approach. On the other hand some might take this practice as borderline with poor business ethics. He sells tables to vendors (thus taking their money) and makes his profit by organizing the show, so far so good. But, if at the same time his plan was to sell animals at a lower price than other vendors, he engages in disloyal competition. He can only do that because his animals were being subsidized by the fact that he already made money from selling tables.

It’s a free market, we all understand that, but there are certain things that are plain wrong. One thing that "seems" right (dropping the price on his animals to beat the competition that paid for his tables), lead to another that also seemed right (selling animals that were not his and had allegedly damaged his property). This is what some of us see here. Again, it’s not about the dirty cages, it’s about a repeated pattern of conduct.

Again please bear with me that I’m not judging the individual but the actions.

Regards

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

It is a shame that some of you have tried to support this thread from the beginning. I have passed all the test and trials that have been laid out for me ( not having any problem with the authorities concerning the original reason the thread was started) So now I must clear up another matter that is neither involved in this trade nor related to this original concern. But that's o.k. I am the Allen Belcher that these news articles refer to. I bought a farm next to this Mr. Blackwell and had placed a forty foot motor coach on my property to have somewhere to stay when we went up for a weekend or whatever the case may be. I went up to the property one day and saw a cow hung in the awning of my front porch. I called Mr. Blackwell and he came and we discussed the problem at hand. He told me I could have the cattle that was on my property to pay for the damages (which were just over 30K)
I told him I did not want the cattle, I wanted my bus fixed. He responded by saying that he was short on money but I could sale the cattle to get the cash to fix the bus. He also offered for an old man that carried cattle for him to carry the cattle to the stockyard for the sale. He then went and had this man Mr. Benny Taft come to my place to discuss taking the cattle to the auction. Eight months after the cattle had been given to me and sold Mr. Blackwell started a criminal suit against me for theft of livestock. The only person that could back up my testimony was a seventy year old man that carried the cattle to the sale (Mr. Benny Taft) Mr. Taft had suffered a severe accident at the stockyard while loading cattle where a bull had fell over backwards on his body. This broke most of his bones on his right side of his body and broke his skull in three places. Upon finding this out the court ruled him uncapable to testify and knowing that this handicapped me greatly also amended the proceedings with an Alan plea ( this is a plea that can be added in a trial when the state knowingly takes a key witness and rules they can not testify for some reason usually mental or medical ) This plea was added and I was encouraged by the judge and the head prosecutor Mr. Mark Post to take this option because if I went through with the trial I could not even use Mr. Taft's name during my testimony because there would be no way for the state to cross question him. With my attorney, the judge and the head prosecutor all working together, They came up with a plea bargain that was what they considered good for me. I took the Alan plea and as the article states paid alot of money (which was all Mr. Blackwell wanted the whole time)
I served one year of unsupervised probation and the charge was stricken from my record.
contact info to check any of this:
Mr. Mark Post with the Harris County d.a. office
main office 706-653-4336
Next I have made myself accessable to any of you who wants to call me to speak with me personally about any of this. But just like this past weekend in Charleston SC I knew that Home Grown Herps had made comments about me when the man does not even know me. However I went up to him shook his hand introduced myself and not one time did he ever make mention of this thread or any of his concerns involving it. I make myself available to anyone with any concerns at anytime, So use this right that I am freely giving you!!!
Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

 

[Nirvana]

I can only say that I do not agree with bringing someone's criminal record into the BOI where it is not relevent to the claimed "wrong" by the thread starter.

I can see your point, and I don't doubt that there are many reptile industry names, big and small, that could be smeared in such a fashion. However, at the same time I feel that it is important for such an extreme criminal and ethical transgression as "grand theft cattle" to be brought to light.

I can certainly see how posts regarding the irrelevant criminal convictions of various reptile industry parties could easily get out of hand, and I would hate to see the reputation of an otherwise perfectly honest and ethical reptile business owner become severely tarnished due to an old conviction and/or mistake. Similarly, I don't think it would be particularly useful for the BOI to turn into a list of the criminal records of those in the reptile industry (though I highly doubt that's what's going to happen, LOL). I guess in this case, though, I just find the crimes brought to light to be so extreme as to be relevant simply as an exhibition of character. As you said, it is still up to the BOI reader to make his or her own informed decision -- there have been no negative buying experiences posted on this thread, and the reader could still come to the conclusion that the cattle conviction was in the past, and that Big Daddy's Wholesale would be an OK ball python breeder to do business with.

As to the hypocrisy within this thread -- that I can't comment on, as I know nothing of the participants in the thread other than whatever has been brought to light here. I, too, despise hypocrisy, and I'm sure I would be thoroughly irked to say the least were I aware of the specific examples to which you are alluding. I will say though that as much as I find the BOI to be an invaulable tool, it also seems to be no stranger to hypocrisy -- I guess with regards to that, it is once again up to the reader to make his or her own decision, perhaps taking in the identity of the post-er into account.

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

Also I will not be vending at my own show because that is a conflict of interest!
Thanks Allen Belcher