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Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

Chameleon Company said:
Allen,
At this point in time, IMHO, you don't have anything to answer for. Folks here want to parse phrases to try to give the appearance of a contradiction, while IMHO it seems clear that you had the ability to contact the provider of at least some of your animals, as well as others who received animals from the same provider. You also had the ability to contact some of the people you vend to, particularly other wholesalers/retailers.

As pointed out, it is clear that you have no proof about Ron being truthful or otherwise. And only you know about the phone call. It is even possible that the phone call was real, but the info in it was made-up. I for one found a couple of Ron's actions questionable, beginning with his coming here before contacting you. I found your offer to refund money several weeks down the road to someone you had no knowledge of selling to, who also could not prove he bought from you, as exemplary.

Lastly, this quote from Ron stuck in my crawl:


Ron, I don't want to read too much into whether or not there are specific insinuations here, but this raised both eyebrows:

1) Eyebrow #1: This purchase was a big deal for you, what with killing for your money and all. You not only get no receipt, but your inability to provide certain info about who you bought from seems remarkable. I would think that you could describe many things about the individual, the table, etc, to a "T". Instead, in an earlier post, you indicate that the seller had no time for you, and yet you made the purchase anyway, again with that hard earned money. I usually try to buy from vendors who care enough to earn my money. Personally, I could drive a truck through the holes in your account.

2) Eyebrow #2: IBD will show up in the stock of wholesalers who care. The onus to keep your future collection clean will be on you. In the lower-end boid market, which is where you bought, IBD will always lurk. Its a scourge. If you ever have a collection worth protecting, it will be your quarantine procedures that protect it. Using as much info as you can get about vendors will help, but a bad assumption by you could be what wipes out your animals. While there are no animals out there that would be exempt from quarantine because of who you bought them from, this risk increases exponentially the cheaper the animal, as those are the ones that change hands often, are kept in groups, etc., prior to making it to the consumer.
Click to expand...

1. if i did really legaly need to prove i bought from him, I could, i have 3 other people who were by my side that exact moment.

2. I admit that i was at first just buying a pet, i am entitled to gain a fond interest in something at any point i desire. So i didnt know much about these animals so what do i ask, what do i look for? The animal cost $50 dollars, the bills accumulating from a sick animal have exceeded 300 (a small price to pay if the animal was healthy from the begining). Thats where my money came into play after the fact of buying the animal, not before.

3. I know where i could drive a truck right about now...
 
Ron,
The facts here are fleeting, which would seem logical for a $50 purchase with no receipt at a show done weeks ago. The animal was a problem from the first week you had it, and ill-advised or not, weeks still went by before the vendor knew anything about it. Compounding that was your decision to bring it to a couple of forums before contacting the vendor even then, which just about guarantees a good dose of animosity before you and the vendor communicate. Those were all your decisions, and in hindsight I believe you would have done differently. In the meantime, its a recipe for exactly what you have here.
 
Jim, I can accept his reasons for not contacting Allen sooner heck though I remembered this thread after seeing it pop back up here I haven't noticed Big Daddy wholesale till he listed Chondro's in the Arboreal Classifieds. Maybe he never visited KS till recently heck I'd had Boids for over 20 years before visiting that site.

The way I see this is IF Ron for some unknown reason wanted to mess with Allen and his business then I think we'd have seen a thread title like this BIG DADDY WHOLESALE HAS IBD!!!!!! but instead he attached it to this thread where it will get no where near the attention it could have gotten.

Allen needs to be a bit more forthwright with us here and a bit more honest. Allen some here do know a bit about reptiles and the things that go wrong with them so please no more BS.

We need someone who has seen Allen and who was at the show to confirm the description Ron gave of him and his table..

These seems to be no doubt the animal had IBD and it came from somewhere we need to get people involved here who were at that show. Randy
 
oh its pointless anymore, I wish i had never started with it all. I was just adding to the inquiry. So i think i have done more than i came to do at all. I didnt realize i was re-lighting an old fire. i posted to say allens animals were highly questionable, i did. I answered all questions. I even posted my results when i had no intention of it anyway. I have been called a liar, i really dont give a crap about any of it, i learned my lesson. From now on i think i will keep to myself and let everyone else find out the same way i did. No more from me, I am done. DONE DONE DONE. If you dont like me, dont sell to me. I appreciate and deserve honesty. I did contact allen shortly before i saw this post and pics, if his place was legit, it was only to tell him that he might have a problem, but when i saw the conditions, and now allen for who he is he deserves what he gets. If it turns out his place is clean...Strike me dead.
 
Randy,
I don't think Ron's motivations were to mess with Allen, etc. My take was that the process followed greased the skids for where things are now ... "liar-liar" etc. I can't say that things would have been different if Allen had been contacted sooner to be told that the animal was heading south fast. I do know that the best results are more possible the more prompt a complaint or negative situation is on the table. With a touch of humor, we all know how it is with our significant other when a "faux-pas" yesterday is brought to our attention today, and not three weeks from now. Not that our spouse is "out to get us" (OK .... maybe :)) , but also not conducive to working it out.
 
Oh I agree Jim, well with most of it lol my wife may hold on to it to beat me with weeks later .

I really hope that there isn't IBD in Allens facility but though I'd hate to be in his position I believe it needed to be brought here and talked about.

Allen saying he knows for a fact that his facility is IBD free and has been tested is a bunch of bull and we know it . Those comments haven't helped him here and it has to suck but people do need to know for sure one way or the other.

It would be one thing if it were just someone with a personal collection of animals but it isn't that way. Big Daddy is a wholeseller and even I have thought about buying from him in the past and do hope that this can be settled so myself and others can feel safe in buying from them in the future. Randy
 
airtrixx said:
the man who i bought the snake from was a about 6 ft tall, on the heavy side with glasses.[/U]
Click to expand...
I'm still on the fence here, but it is getting mighty windy,Allen I have read about the snake possibly not being one of yours,possible maybe......But is this your description ??
 
I think its having to admit to being "on the heavy side" that has created a snag :) ! I've never met Allen, but that would seem a stumbling block. I also cannot conceive of any wholesale facility with animals coming and going that could claim to be "IBD free" even if they tested a percentage of animals regularly, which is darn-near financially impossible, IMMHO.
 
Could someone tell me what IBD stands for, I just found this thread and I do not know what the "IBD" stands for.(should I have this animal tested for something) I have recently purchsed an animal from Allen, the snake seems healthy, (although it has refused food for about a month now) I personally feel it was misrepresented, but I will accept it as a costly lesson. I will ensure I ask every question possible before I make a 2500.00 dollar investment again.


Bill
 
Chameleon Company said:
I think its having to admit to being "on the heavy side" that has created a snag :) ! I've never met Allen, but that would seem a stumbling block. I also cannot conceive of any wholesale facility with animals coming and going that could claim to be "IBD free" even if they tested a percentage of animals regularly, which is darn-near financially impossible, IMMHO.
Click to expand...
OK :thumbsup: forget the heavy substitute it with stocky 6' with glasses I just want to know if this was him.
 
Pintado said:
Could someone tell me what IBD stands for, I just found this thread and I do not know what the "IBD" stands for.(should I have this animal tested for something) I have recently purchsed an animal from Allen, the snake seems healthy, (although it has refused food for about a month now) I personally feel it was misrepresented, but I will accept it as a costly lesson. I will ensure I ask every question possible before I make a 2500.00 dollar investment again.
Bill
Click to expand...
Not saying that the snake you got has it, But for your own piece of mind have it tested. IBD is a reptiles version of AIDS
 
Pintado,
Others can give you the complete lowdown, but it stands for Inclusion Body Disease. Fatal, spreads like wildfire, and we don't know how. I have to agree with Bill that its like AIDs in the early '80's, a real kiss-of-death. While AIDS requires some serious exchange of fluids (semen, blood), this is spread through (conjecture) mites, proximity, touch, aerosol, etc. I think that the appearance of inclusion bodies in the liver is the most advanced medical confirmation of the disease. It'll kill the animal if secondary infections via a reduced immune system don't first. And it can also be kind of like mad-cow disease too. Wasn't this called "stargazers disease" at one time, due to the tendancy of the snake to twist ? And I don't know squat about this.
 
Yup , that pretty much sums him up. I know he has a full time guy but hes roughly 5' 8" - 5'10" , medium build and generally wears a mohawk , his part time guy is supposed a pretty big fella but don't know if he wears glasses or goes to the shows.

Since I'm here might as well chime in on a couple things.

1) Fecal testing is not done for IBD. Might want to get other testing done before the boasting .

2) I don't know of anyone who can ID that boa from that pic much less waste the time taking pics of wholesale animals.

I will agree with Jim that there is no way a wholesaler that moves a bunch of animals can firmly gaurentee no IBD in his facility especially from just fecals. I can't see being able to firmly ID a wholesale animal from a sale weeks ago either. It seems to be the norm for vendors to not give reciepts on the southeast show circut but it shouldn't be that hard to recollect what vendor you bought your critter from either. You may or may not immediately recall the name but viewing a vendor list generally sparks who you delt with at the time. A good sized show has a bunch of tables running together with a multitude of vendors so being able to recall a name at the drop of a hat can get tricky.

But this is going pretty much along the lines I expected. Deny what you can and claim a bad memory when you can't deny with a healthy dash of crap answers. So far I've read " fecals have been done , my stuff is clean " and " LAWYER " . I'm not against anyone defending themselves but I see the evidence stronger from the Plantiff than I do the Defendant. Before someone starts screaming the " L " word , they should have a much better soapbox to hollar from than one held together with duct tape and bubble gum.
 
defending my ability to pic out that snake

OK sent Bryon the pics of the boas I sold Allen Belcher. we all know each snake is unique in its pattern like a finger print there are three things i looked for in the pics on the snake in question. 1 it has 3 dots that are visible between the saddles and the two saddles each is unique one has a square in it and the other has a odd pattern in it i tried to post my pics but guess i don't come here enough. don't know how lol. We were scared to death because this could wipe us out we have 30 boas and 15 pythons in our collection. to say the least i was relieved to find out it was not one of ours. but i have made a appointment with a vet to have blood work done. the reason behind this is peace of mind. I've been to allens and worked for him over a year ago and my best friends work for him now. i will buy from him again mater of fact making payments on a het for albino boa and i truly believe he is IBD free or i surly would have herd about snakes dying I cant afford a biopsy of the liver in all my snakes but i would like peace of mind my animals are safe.and come on guys i cant spell so please be nice on my spelling and grammer lol. were not a Wholesaler. were a small private breeder and pride our selves on going the extra to offer that personal touch we have Birth certs for each snakes we produce and we even give the egg the snake hatches from if so done ie.(burms,and our Asian rats). i hope this clears up a few things. Thanks William Gornto
 
William

I haven't recieved any pics from you or anyone else. Why would you send them to me anyway? I really hate to say this since I thought of you as a buddy but after hearing about you from Allen and the conversations we had when I first started this thread I'm not holding much in your post. There is too much history between you and Allen that keeps you both in each others back pocket.

1) Allen put your name first and foremost at the top of his list for the arson investigators when his rat barn burned down.

2) You were working for Allen during the WC BP fiasco, the very first thread on Allen was created over and sold them to me and others as LTC then admitted directly to me they were straight bush babies .

3) You were the one who ordered an adult BP female and snuck it in to Allen's breeding rack to get her gravid from his spider and then take her home all without permission. Allen pointed her out to me in his rack when I worked for him and told me what happened. I rememebered you telling me about her and talking to me about a breeding loan with the pastel I had before you quit.

4) Allen also told all of the employee's at the time I worked for him that you were not allowed in the shop or his wholesale building because you stole from him. Thats why you had to stay with me at the new rodent building when you bought the Blue Tai Beauty from Allen the day I quit.

After hearing from you both about each other I can't see why I should take your post at much value. Allen couldn't remember selling to Ron but he remembered everyone else he sold to. I'm seeing holes in this story . Not calling you a bad guy but between the 2 of you and the things that happened I don't think that I could altogether trust your version of the story anymore than I could Allen's.
 
hey i sent the pics to your email [email protected] only email i have for you i sent them to you cause you know me and you said i couldnt tell if it was one of mine. as for Allen bad mouthing me thats cool dont bother me. they talked about christ and he walked on water and he is giving someone else a rest. drop me a line at [email protected] as for the rat house i didnt burn it, i had over 50 burned and smoke inhalation rats to my house to doctor, dont think if i was suspect number one i would be doctoring his injured rats for him. i did try and mate my adult ball with his spider and was caught red handed. but that was aslo about the time i quit because he didnt care about the animals at all all he saw was money.(looking for fast way to improve my breeding animals) i never told anyone i wasnt a theif or liar and a crook from way back but my animals are top notch and come first and formost. thats the only reason i couldnt work for allen. dont mean i dislike him or care that he runs his mouth behind my back. the whole thing is does he have IBD or not if he does i dang sure want to know and i think we all would but if he dont and i belive he doesnt have it or over 200 ball pythons would be dead or dying.because you and i know there is no sterilization between the wholesale and high doller just seperating them by buildings. have a great one as for not backing you when this started. way i figured it you took my job after i quit it was your job to clean them cages what he paid you for if you had to work 60 hours to do it then work i ran petshop and took care of all you did in forty hours. my messed up princples lol talk to you later thanks William
 
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