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Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING
- Thread starter BryonsBoas
- Start date
Dennis Hultman
New member
Is this one you are talking about?
critical bill
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Yum, it looks like Allen is making some stew for dinner! Wonder if he serves that with a hard roll & butter.
Cat_72
Back from exile :)
critical bill said:
Um, I think I'll take just the roll and pass on the stew, thanks.
Seriously....how hard is it to stick a clean dish in there, at least remove the one full of crap before taking a picture?
RJK890
Lone Wolf
I have now had two very good transactions with Allen.
When I first decided to keep BP's in 5/07, I traded Allen some high end BCI for:
1. BumbleBee het O.Ghost
.1 Spider het O.Ghost
.2 Pastel het O.Ghost
.26 CBB normals(was supposed to be .25 but he miscounted in my favor: )
In Dec. 07' I contacted Allen again and asked him if he would take the 1.B.Bee het O.G, and .2 Pastels het O.G back in trade for an 1100g .1 Albino(1550g today,) and a 800g proven 1. Spider(900g today, and bred for me in early April.) Allen accepted my offer, so I drove to Alabama to make the trade. I was supposed to arrive at 1:30pm but arrived about 3 1/2 hours early. Allen still let my brother Joe and his fiance Bri, and myself tour his facility. His enclosure's were very clean and had fresh water. The occasional tank had a fresh shed, or #1 or #2 in it(don't they all,) but Allen had two employees besides himself cleaning cages and feeding the snakes. Allen also gave me an unexpected 550g 1. Pastel het Green Ghost for doing all of the traveling. I am not a verified shipper and prefer not to have my animals shipped if at all possible. He was a pleasure to do business with both times and every animal I have received from him is healthy and thriving 6 months to a year later
.
Knowing that several members of this community have it out for him and are watching his every thread, just waiting for some bad photo showing what may or may not be a kink on a snake that is barely out of the egg, or a pic. with a urinate in it to start a, "The Horror!" BOI thread, I can't imagine why he is not more careful. Maybe he really don't care what y'all think.
Granted, it appears that all 3 of the water bowls in that top pic have urine in them, but it appears to be fresh water, with clean newspaper. Could it be that the snakes soaked in the fresh warm water after being handled while he recently cleaned the enclosure's for a photo, and that induced a nice piss? How many pics have been posted on KS, and even on Fauna with a shed, piss, or nice nasty turd in it that never make the BOI? I don't know why people don't make sure the pics are free of that junk, or at least crop it out. Most of all you Allen, you know that you're under a microscope.
When I first decided to keep BP's in 5/07, I traded Allen some high end BCI for:
1. BumbleBee het O.Ghost
.1 Spider het O.Ghost
.2 Pastel het O.Ghost
.26 CBB normals(was supposed to be .25 but he miscounted in my favor: )
In Dec. 07' I contacted Allen again and asked him if he would take the 1.B.Bee het O.G, and .2 Pastels het O.G back in trade for an 1100g .1 Albino(1550g today,) and a 800g proven 1. Spider(900g today, and bred for me in early April.) Allen accepted my offer, so I drove to Alabama to make the trade. I was supposed to arrive at 1:30pm but arrived about 3 1/2 hours early. Allen still let my brother Joe and his fiance Bri, and myself tour his facility. His enclosure's were very clean and had fresh water. The occasional tank had a fresh shed, or #1 or #2 in it(don't they all,) but Allen had two employees besides himself cleaning cages and feeding the snakes. Allen also gave me an unexpected 550g 1. Pastel het Green Ghost for doing all of the traveling. I am not a verified shipper and prefer not to have my animals shipped if at all possible. He was a pleasure to do business with both times and every animal I have received from him is healthy and thriving 6 months to a year later
.Knowing that several members of this community have it out for him and are watching his every thread, just waiting for some bad photo showing what may or may not be a kink on a snake that is barely out of the egg, or a pic. with a urinate in it to start a, "The Horror!" BOI thread, I can't imagine why he is not more careful. Maybe he really don't care what y'all think.
Granted, it appears that all 3 of the water bowls in that top pic have urine in them, but it appears to be fresh water, with clean newspaper. Could it be that the snakes soaked in the fresh warm water after being handled while he recently cleaned the enclosure's for a photo, and that induced a nice piss? How many pics have been posted on KS, and even on Fauna with a shed, piss, or nice nasty turd in it that never make the BOI? I don't know why people don't make sure the pics are free of that junk, or at least crop it out. Most of all you Allen, you know that you're under a microscope.
critical bill
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The ass kissing is almost as sickening as the soiled water bowls.
RJK890
Lone Wolf
Really
Where is it? Please quote the quote the part where I was brown nosing. I simply presented the facts about my actual transactions with Allen, no differently than I would about any other seller. I also said that not one but all 3 water bowls had piss in them, and that I don't understand why anyone, especially Allen, post pics with stuff like that in them.
I don't think the pic shows neglect though, Do you? Maybe your pet plastic lizards do not, but my snakes shed, piss, and crap all of the time. I just don't post pictures of it. Allen is obviously unliked by a good portion of the members here on Fauna. I see much worse pics posted that never make the BOI. No
kissing, Just a lot of facts, and a few opinions .
Ok, Chuckie,
Where is it? Please quote the quote the part where I was brown nosing. I simply presented the facts about my actual transactions with Allen, no differently than I would about any other seller. I also said that not one but all 3 water bowls had piss in them, and that I don't understand why anyone, especially Allen, post pics with stuff like that in them.
I don't think the pic shows neglect though, Do you? Maybe your pet plastic lizards do not, but my snakes shed, piss, and crap all of the time. I just don't post pictures of it. Allen is obviously unliked by a good portion of the members here on Fauna. I see much worse pics posted that never make the BOI. No
kissing, Just a lot of facts, and a few opinions .
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
Both sides have a point here. The OP in this thread posted about conditions at Allen's facility. RJK actually recently saw Allen's place and has a report. Honestly Chuck, I think having done business with Allen back a year ago was more a sign of bad judgment than anything else, but heck, it was RJK's choice to do so.
At some point there was a claim of IBD made in a young Boa, IIRC, with a necropsy to prove it. That led to a war of its own. There was the issue over the color of the business card and whether there was a receipt but I think the consensus was that it was an animal that came from Allen's "wholesale business". I believe that Allen claimed that the wholesale animals were kept separately from his breeding stock. Somewhere along the line wasn't there a fire in one of these "facilities" as well? A lot to remember for an old brain.
RJK obtained pythons last year and this year from Allen. If the pythons in the group obtained a year ago had IBD they likely would be dead, or at least very sick, by now.
How many of you have cleaned a snake's enclosure, changed the water, only to have the snake almost immediately eliminate feces or urates in the fresh water or on the clean substrate? It happens, more often than I like it to happen. To me it looks as though the enclosures were cleaned for the photos and that's what happened. Bad judgment in not changing the water bowls, for sure. Well, no one's ever accused Allen of being the sharpest tool in the shed. This is further evidence of that. Even if he didn't make those photos himself, he posted them, or allowed them to be posted under his name.
I don't see where RJK is lying. He arrived way early and actually toured the place. He's reporting his findings. In any large facility snakes are shedding and crapping all of the time. All one can do is pick up behind it.
As for the IBD issue, I agree that Allen handled it poorly (but nothing compared to that idiot Dan Scalaro), but if there were serious problems in his breeding stock, we would likely have seen more signs of it by now, particularly in pythons. No other reports of IBD in any animals obtained from Allen have arisen since the original ones, at least not on the BOI.
Is it safe to do business with Allen? I don't know. He wouldn't be my first choice, but he's not my last either. If I had the chance to tour his place and see dozens or hundreds of clean, healthy pythons, I would consider it if he had something that I really, really wanted. Pythons are like the canary in the coal mine in terms of IBD in a collection. If they are thriving they likely do not have it. I would also strictly quarantine anything that I bought from him, but that goes without saying.
At some point there was a claim of IBD made in a young Boa, IIRC, with a necropsy to prove it. That led to a war of its own. There was the issue over the color of the business card and whether there was a receipt but I think the consensus was that it was an animal that came from Allen's "wholesale business". I believe that Allen claimed that the wholesale animals were kept separately from his breeding stock. Somewhere along the line wasn't there a fire in one of these "facilities" as well? A lot to remember for an old brain.
RJK obtained pythons last year and this year from Allen. If the pythons in the group obtained a year ago had IBD they likely would be dead, or at least very sick, by now.
How many of you have cleaned a snake's enclosure, changed the water, only to have the snake almost immediately eliminate feces or urates in the fresh water or on the clean substrate? It happens, more often than I like it to happen. To me it looks as though the enclosures were cleaned for the photos and that's what happened. Bad judgment in not changing the water bowls, for sure. Well, no one's ever accused Allen of being the sharpest tool in the shed. This is further evidence of that. Even if he didn't make those photos himself, he posted them, or allowed them to be posted under his name.
I don't see where RJK is lying. He arrived way early and actually toured the place. He's reporting his findings. In any large facility snakes are shedding and crapping all of the time. All one can do is pick up behind it.
As for the IBD issue, I agree that Allen handled it poorly (but nothing compared to that idiot Dan Scalaro), but if there were serious problems in his breeding stock, we would likely have seen more signs of it by now, particularly in pythons. No other reports of IBD in any animals obtained from Allen have arisen since the original ones, at least not on the BOI.
Is it safe to do business with Allen? I don't know. He wouldn't be my first choice, but he's not my last either. If I had the chance to tour his place and see dozens or hundreds of clean, healthy pythons, I would consider it if he had something that I really, really wanted. Pythons are like the canary in the coal mine in terms of IBD in a collection. If they are thriving they likely do not have it. I would also strictly quarantine anything that I bought from him, but that goes without saying.
critical bill
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Yeah well that's all nice and swell for one possible explanation of the current condition, but just flip to page one to view the photos that Bryon provided back in 2006. It doesn't seem like anything has changed since then. Same filth filled cages back then as it is now.
No excuses, play like a champion.
No excuses, play like a champion.
critical bill
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RJK890 said:
Quote the quote the part?
Did I get you all flusterred and finger fumbling for a response?
Relax Booby. Let your brain catch up with your fingers.
joepythons
Ball python slave
breath
? Are you able to breath on your own or does Allen stand up so you can breath every now and then 
.Just in-case i have confused you and you do not understand where i am going with my question i will explain.ITS CALLED BROWN NOSE
Uuum how much is Allen paying you to come here and give us this load of bullRJK890 said:When I first decided to keep BP's in 5/07, I traded Allen some high end BCI for:
1. BumbleBee het O.Ghost
.1 Spider het O.Ghost
.2 Pastel het O.Ghost
.26 CBB normals(was supposed to be .25 but he miscounted in my favor: )
In Dec. 07' I contacted Allen again and asked him if he would take the 1.B.Bee het O.G, and .2 Pastels het O.G back in trade for an 1100g .1 Albino(1550g today,) and a 800g proven 1. Spider(900g today, and bred for me in early April.) Allen accepted my offer, so I drove to Alabama to make the trade. I was supposed to arrive at 1:30pm but arrived about 3 1/2 hours early. Allen still let my brother Joe and his fiance Bri, and myself tour his facility. His enclosure's were very clean and had fresh water. The occasional tank had a fresh shed, or #1 or #2 in it(don't they all,) but Allen had two employees besides himself cleaning cages and feeding the snakes. Allen also gave me an unexpected 550g 1. Pastel het Green Ghost for doing all of the traveling. I am not a verified shipper and prefer not to have my animals shipped if at all possible. He was a pleasure to do business with both times and every animal I have received from him is healthy and thriving 6 months to a year later
Knowing that several members of this community have it out for him and are watching his every thread, just waiting for some bad photo showing what may or may not be a kink on a snake that is barely out of the egg, or a pic. with a urinate in it to start a, "The Horror!" BOI thread, I can't imagine why he is not more careful. Maybe he really don't care what y'all think.
Granted, it appears that all 3 of the water bowls in that top pic have urine in them, but it appears to be fresh water, with clean newspaper. Could it be that the snakes soaked in the fresh warm water after being handled while he recently cleaned the enclosure's for a photo, and that induced a nice piss? How many pics have been posted on KS, and even on Fauna with a shed, piss, or nice nasty turd in it that never make the BOI? I don't know why people don't make sure the pics are free of that junk, or at least crop it out. Most of all you Allen, you know that you're under a microscope.
? Are you able to breath on your own or does Allen stand up so you can breath every now and then .Just in-case i have confused you and you do not understand where i am going with my question i will explain.ITS CALLED BROWN NOSE 
MikeCurtin
BOI Vigilante!
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It seems to me sometimes that Rob chooses to defend questionable guys more than the truly reputable ones. Maybe those posts just stand out more to me than the others, but who knows?
While I may question Rob's choices regarding who he comes here to defend, it looks to me like he's trying to give an accurate picture of current conditions, while chastising Allen for his lack of concern regarding the soiled water bowls ("Most of all you Allen, you know that you're under a microscope"). I don't see this as brown nosing in the least.
Having said that, posting an animal for sale, most of us try and present that animal in the most flattering way possible. If one can't be bothered removing or changing the water bowl for an advertising pic, what are the conditions like normally? It kind of makes me wonder if there was an all night cleaning party knowing that Rob was due to visit the following day.
While I may question Rob's choices regarding who he comes here to defend, it looks to me like he's trying to give an accurate picture of current conditions, while chastising Allen for his lack of concern regarding the soiled water bowls ("Most of all you Allen, you know that you're under a microscope"). I don't see this as brown nosing in the least.
Having said that, posting an animal for sale, most of us try and present that animal in the most flattering way possible. If one can't be bothered removing or changing the water bowl for an advertising pic, what are the conditions like normally? It kind of makes me wonder if there was an all night cleaning party knowing that Rob was due to visit the following day.
Cat_72
Back from exile :)
captnemo said:
Exactly.
And aside from all of the points Jim O reminded us of, lets not forget that Allen also admittedly sold normal animals as hets....he wasn't sure which ones were which, so he just sold whichever ones looked like they might be the right ones as hets.
Even the best of the scammers make a good deal every so often, just to keep the new fish rolling in.....as long as they've got voices like Rob to speak up for them, there will always be that perhaps "reasonable doubt" in someone's head that maybe we are just "out to get" Allen....but when someone has a track record of lying, selling normals as hets, passing animals with IBD, and keeping animals in substandard conditions, you'd better bet people are going to be keeping an eye on them.
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
No genius, it's called making an honest post about two business transactions he had with the subject of this thread, which if I may remind some of you, is what this forum is supposed to be about. Members of this website should not be chastised and insulted for posting their positive experiences here, no matter who their transaction(s) took place with. Sadly however, in the past couple of years this has become modus operandi.
Cat_72
Back from exile :)
Kelli, I do agree with what you are saying for the most part, but is does need to be a two-way street. Is it any better to make those honest posts about a positive transaction, and imply that the only reason that anyone says anything negative is just because we're all big bullies "out to get" someone? I find that pretty insulting as well. 
And well.....when someone is encouraging others to do business with a known scammer/scum (no matter who it is), I have a hard time sitting back and just letting it go.
And well.....when someone is encouraging others to do business with a known scammer/scum (no matter who it is), I have a hard time sitting back and just letting it go.
Dixie Reptiles
New member
Cat,if Allen gave someone a snake and bought them a steak dinner you would still have something negative to say.
Cat_72
Back from exile :)
Dixie Reptiles said:
It's possible, lol.
Giving someone a snake and a steak would be a nice thing to do, but it doesn't undo the things that have already been done.
RJK890
Lone Wolf
Did I post here to defend Allen? Not really. I was due to post feedback from my second good transaction with Allen anyway. It was made in early December. I wanted to wait until after at least 120 days of quarantine, but I have not had a chance to post it. When I saw this thread bumped because of the pics he posted I figured I would let everyone know that I was at his facility in December and it was kept clean. I also included the details of the transaction, and the fact that the animals I received are healthy and thriving. BTW, Allen giving me a 1.Pastel het G.Ghost for traveling from South Florida to Alabama does not put me on his payroll. It was just unexpected and generous.
Is that brown nosing? No. While I am here though, I do think that the only reason these pictures(or the ones of the animal that may or may not have had a kink,) made the BOI, and got the response's they did, is because y'all don't like Allen. I have seen much worse pics in classified ads that never made it here. These pictures definitely do not show the same conditions as the ones Bry posted, and I am sure if I went into your snake room with a camera right now I could get pics. just like them, if not worse.
Some people will never be objective about Allen no matter what. They have made up their mind, and no matter how many good transactions, how many people visit his facility and report clean conditions, or how much time passes without any negative feedback nothing will ever change their opinion.
That's Ok, I am not here to change your opinion. I am posting actual feedback so that anyone considering purchasing an animal from Allen, can search the BOI and read about his actual business dealings, good or bad, and make their own decision. Imagine that!
I guess if I don't have anything malicious to say I should say nothing at all.
Is that brown nosing? No. While I am here though, I do think that the only reason these pictures(or the ones of the animal that may or may not have had a kink,) made the BOI, and got the response's they did, is because y'all don't like Allen. I have seen much worse pics in classified ads that never made it here. These pictures definitely do not show the same conditions as the ones Bry posted, and I am sure if I went into your snake room with a camera right now I could get pics. just like them, if not worse.
Some people will never be objective about Allen no matter what. They have made up their mind, and no matter how many good transactions, how many people visit his facility and report clean conditions, or how much time passes without any negative feedback nothing will ever change their opinion.
That's Ok, I am not here to change your opinion. I am posting actual feedback so that anyone considering purchasing an animal from Allen, can search the BOI and read about his actual business dealings, good or bad, and make their own decision. Imagine that!
I guess if I don't have anything malicious to say I should say nothing at all
.Reptisillious
New member
WoW, that is aweful. It'd be hard to deal with. Triing to do right by the animals without the authority to do. Thank You for thoroughly writing and showing what is happening there.
Chameleon Company
New member
Imagine the withdrawal that some of these folks would go through if the BOI were gone for a month. No place to trash others. No place to "elevate" oneself by putting others down.
Here is a thread, well over 1000 post long, with plenty of information for anyone to draw conclusions from. But what happens when someone comes along and dares post about a good experience with Allen ? The folks who "can't let it go" have to chime in with the same opinions they already typed 100 times prior.
Kelli hit the nail on the head. I'm karma challenged ..... otherwise Kelli gets a boatload
Here is a thread, well over 1000 post long, with plenty of information for anyone to draw conclusions from. But what happens when someone comes along and dares post about a good experience with Allen ? The folks who "can't let it go" have to chime in with the same opinions they already typed 100 times prior.
Kelli hit the nail on the head. I'm karma challenged ..... otherwise Kelli gets a boatload