Alligator Setup

[GATERMAN1390]

Hey im a 16 year old kid. I know you jerks with probably say stupid shit because im a kid, but i know what im talking about so dont say im to young to own a crocodilian. Ive owed every reptile from Burmese Pythons to huge snapping turtles to water moniters. My parents are biologists and know what the are talking about also; they make sure i know what im doing when i get a new pet. I dont have rich parents the pay for everything either. I have a job at a petstore where i work to pay for all of my animals and there expensive bills.

Now that ive got that cleared up ive got a couple questions.

I recently bought a juvinile American Alligator from a breeder. Hes only about 8 months old and 16.5inches long but he is by far the tamest animal ive ever had. He is asleep on my lap as im writing this. Is is normal for such a young animal to be as tame as it is? The breeder i bought him from said he hasnt had much handling so he didnt know how tame or aggressive he'd be. I know alligators tame with alot of handling and care but i didnt know it would be this easy? Is it just lucky that i get an animal this tame?

Is a 220 gallon pond big enough for now? Im using a preformed pond with about 125 gallons of water and about 3sq/ft of sanded basking area. How long will this last him? I figured about a year and a half but im not exactly possitive how long this will last him?

I keep the water at 75 degrees Farenheit. I use 2 200 gallon canister filters set on low to keep it clean and i use a full 5 light heating systen to keep him warm. I also have a hidebox where he seems to spend much of the time at night. In his enclosure i also keep small minnows and 4 very small turtles about the size of a 50cent peice.

What do you think of his setup? Id love to have your opinions on everything! Any suggestions and advice are welcomed! I will post pictures as soon as possible. Thanks
-NW

 

[steveingram]

"Jerks"

Nathan,

You may want to keep from calling people "jerks" when asking for advice or help....
So what your 16....most members on this site won't hold that against you. They would rather help someone and give them ANY advice they could, especially if its a younger member of the herp community (who in your situation wants to take on a project like an alligator.)
If your parents are biologists (and I am not doubting that they are), who make sure you know what you are doing, why bother asking us "jerks"?
Just a helpful hint.... you may want to change your attitude just a little bit if you want help from individuals with loads of experience.


By the way, Welcome to fauna.

-Steve Ingram

 

[victoria]

I think if u want your turtles to live you should take them out of your alligators pond. He will eat them!

 

[garweft]

Wow, you have kept some of the largest, coolest reptiles there are. Hurray for you.

I do have 2 questions though:

1) What happened to the Water Monitors, Burmese Python, and Snappers? Last time I checked they live longer than 16 years. Did they die or become too much for you to handle?

2) If you have so much experience with EVERY reptile there is, then I would think that you could figure those questions out yourself based. If not I am almost certain that you would know how to research the care of them. I'm guessing that is how you learned to care for almost everything else that you have kept. Right?

You are super awesome though. I wish I was cool enough to have kept half of the stuff you have. And just imagine how cool everyone will think you are when you walk around with a 10 foot gator.

 

[GATERMAN1390]

My apologies for calling you jerks but in some of the other forums ive been in ive been insulted repeatively because of my age.

Yes my parents really are biologists. They both went to school for the full term to become biologists, however they both work as science teachers at my highschool. They met in college.

I have done my research but in my experience the research isnt always entirely correct. So i thought i would ask some of the people who really know what they are talking about.

My Burmese Python i donated to the state zoo because of my newborn baby brother. The snapping turtle i traded to a friend who had a much larger area he could devote to him. And my water moniter is currently at a friends house where we are attemping to breed her, unsuccesfully.

Just thought i would clear all of that up for you guys

 

[csreptiles]

Well I keep my large gators in 8x12 pins and I have a 5-6 footer. I don't use a filter but I change the water weekly. Hope that can answer your question. But again I'm not an expert.

 

[Hypancistrus]

My Burmese Python i donated to the state zoo because of my newborn baby brother. The snapping turtle i traded to a friend who had a much larger area he could devote to him. And my water moniter is currently at a friends house where we are attemping to breed her, unsuccesfully.

I may be wrong (I have a degree in biology and work as a HS science teacher, but I am not an expert) but if you don't quite have the space to house a 3 foot snapping turtle... where or how do you plan on having the space to house a 10 foot alligator??

And also... while a Burmese really would be hazardous to a newborn child, I think that a 'gator would be just as hazardous to a toddler.

 

[GATERMAN1390]

The snapping turtle was a touchy situation at the time. I at the time really didn't have the space and yes it was my fault for not doing so. But now i do have the time and the money to build a proper enclosure for my young gator.
If you have read my other posts you'll understand (i believe they are on repticzone.com). I have plans to build a fully fenced in enclosure in my back yard for my alligator this coming spring.

As for the python; you cant tape together the jaws, it can kill without its jaws, and it was already huge. I just didn't like the risk. My lil gator is small still and my lil brother wont be anywhere near my gator anyway. Parents rule.

When my bother eventually is allowed by the gator it will be EXTREMELY supervised with the gators jaws taped and my brother kept at a safe distance. My gator is extremely tame however and wont even open his mouth other than at feeding time. There will be the extra precaution however to ensure everyones safety. Also, the gator wont be huge for several years and by then my brother should be old enough to understand not to go near him without supervision. He wont ever be able to get to the gator anyway because of either a fence or glass barrier. Even when my brother is older and the gator larger, they will still be supervised at ALL times.

All this extra precaution is both my parents and my rule. It wont ever be broken as far as I'm concerned. I take this precaution because i love both my gator and my little brother and wouldn't ever want anything bad to happen to them.

I hope this has cleared up your concerns. Any more questions just ask away!

ThAnKs!

 

[diablos]

Well i am not starting trouble here with you little dude.
But i am going to put my two cents in here without being a "Jerk".
Now you say your American Alligator is tame?
Well you may think for now that he or she is,but i can tell you from experience and having two female American Alligators myself.
1-is 5 years old and about 4 1/2 feet the other is 2 and 2 1/2 feet long.
They will never be tame!!!
Or be your best friend.
They may accept the fact that you feed them and know who you are because you see them everyday,but if given the chance a 6 foot Alligator will try to take you out.
And we do not meen to lunch.
Now i am not saying there are not other Alligators who may be tame to a certain part,but most will try to attack you if given the chance.
Mine hiss and growl everyday and also do what i call the stand off.
I just hope you know what you are doing,because if you dont,you will find out the hard way what an Alligator is able to do to an arm or leg or worse.
I am not trying to scare you here,but it really is a part of having the experience that just may save your life.
And you have to understand just how much room we are talking about here.
Now a female American Alligator can get to be 10 1/2 feet long and weigh??? 450-550 pounds mabe even more.
You would have to dedicate a room the size of 12 feet by 12 feet by 6 feet deep.
I think that would be o.k for a female?
Just average guessing here.
In any case we are talking large room for a large animal.
Now a female that size will eat,goats,pigs and mabe even 5-6 full grown rabbits.
Now we are talking every 1 week to 2 weeks at a clip.
Now you have to clean out the pen..Yea..here is where the fun starts.
You have to get into the pen with a 10 foot 550 pound Alligator who looks at you like lunch.
To clean up poop bigger than both your fists and feet put together
And not to mention the water needs to be changed also.
So how are you going to move this giant animal when no one else is going to help you because the are to intimidated by this monsterous animal?
Oh yea i almost forgot to mention that the whole time you are in the pen with this giant Alligator it is hissing and growling at you and is starting to come closer to you while you are trying to clean out its enclosure.
Not to mention where are you going to find a vet to care for your Alligator if it gets sick? or injured or ???
It is just something to think about.
You should really evaluate the sitcuation you are going to be getting into.

 

[diablos]

Oh yea allmost forgot this one.
If and when you realise "Wow i can not handle this big Alligator any more"
Do you really think that it is that easy to just give it away?
Or donate to a zoo?
Zoos are most likely full with Alligators and Red Tails and Burmese Pythons.
Unless your Alligator can spit golden eggs than you are stuck with this reptile.

 

[constrictorcrazi74]

im 16 years old to and i dont think ive ever came into a situation they way you did i think you have to give respect to get it ( thats just what my parents tought me) and you said you had other people in other forums bash you because of your age i think i would say most of the people who replyed to your post gave you alot of respect even tho the way you came into the situation by calling people jerks before you even no them like they judging a book by its cover . when people are being hard on you i think its more there tryin to help you then bash you because of your age i have yet to have anyone say anything bad to me because of my age then other they wont go threw a trade with me with out my mothers consent ........ but in refrence to your baby gator just remember anything with a mouth can bight good look with the little guy



joe

 

[Playnwifsnot]

Now I dont have one of these guys,I was just curious about some of the posts here. I work at a pet store,I am a biology major and I see nothing wrong with teaching science as I wish to teach,but on a college level...im going to be in school for awhile...lol Anyways as the person stated, this animal will never be a "pet". Never understood why have these guys, but to each their own,if you have the correct space needed, and the care, by all means. But also to point out as another did,you didnt have the space for the turtle, then you blame it on your little brother...now what makes you think a gator will be a better idea? This animal will dwarf the turtle in size and aggression, cost alot more to feed and will be hard to rehome for when it gets to large. And then think of your neighbors, do you think they really want a 6 foot long beast living next door? I would be terrified to let my dog out as who knows,she may chase something,hop the fence and be lunch. Which although it would be the neighbors fault, you are the one with the gator and will be held accounted for it. You also may want to check with your city first if you can have one. I know they are illegal in Toledo. You may also need insurance on it being it is a dangerous animal, which I personally would get even if I didnt need it just incase a little dog or child wandered where it shouldnt.

But then theres another thing you need to think of. My personal herp vet, Dr Tim was the toledo zoo vet, he wont see these guys as to much of a liability...and this is comming from the guy who 2 months ago went out to treat a cougar. You really should make sure before you get it that when this thing is big and getting not so friendly, that if a problem occures, a vet will see your animal. I know when we get big snakes into the office(I also work at the office Dr Tim does), if there is a rather large or aggressive snake or reptile come in, they tend to make the appointments on a friday in the early part of the day as they know I will be there. Heck Mr Nasty my ATB has an appointment tomorrow...yeah I dont let the girls hold him because he is mean as some bad funk from the trash can..lol My point, find a good vet first before you get the animal.

Also I dont know how important UVB is to these guys,but I do know they bask durring the day so I am assuming they need it more than say your berm did. Do you have UVB bulbs? Most of the florencent types they need to get within 8-10" of the bulb, if you cant manange that are you going to opt for mercury vapor mist bulbs?

And I agree with the calling people jerks, if you expwect good replies, you need to treat people with respect. People attack for a reason, although they dont always mean it that way, it is hard to express how one feels through posts without the use of caps, a bunch of !!!!!!!! and then there comes the name calling. A respectable person would state they know this is an aggressive animal, but loves the beauty and wishes to know all the care it would entail before comming to a decison upon buying a new animal, I know I go through this whenever I get a new species of reptile, even did it with my parrots...still do with my parrots! Treat with respect and you will get respect.

~Melissa

 

[kustom]

I cared for an american alligator

They are really cool, aren't they? Mine seemed to be very tame also. At first he would squirm in my hands but calmed down very quickly. Eventually, he would put himself in a position for me to pick him up. He would always go to the back right corner and put his face in it and wait for me to pick him up. I would sometimes leave live food in his cage but usually i feed him on schedule. He would go to front right corner when he was hungry and raise his head to let me know he was hungry. It practically become clockwork. Definetly filter his water and even change it regularly. If you have gravel or rock in his cage wash them out often also. Be sure not to leave half eaten fish in is cage. It will become nasty quickly. That is why I didn't leave live food in there all the time. Your water temp sounds good. I kept mine in between 75 and 80. I kept the temp. around his basking spot warmer with a ceramic heater. Be sure he won't be able to reach it. They came "jump" fairly well, so he doesn't burn himself. But that is why he bask, to warm up. I also kept the other side slightly darker, that just seemed to be something he prefered. Make sure there is a gradule incline to basking area. This way he can laydown and still be in the water. Mne spent a lot of time there. At his size if he does bite you don't worry, not to bad. It feels like a bunch of little needle pricks.Mine got me once. Was going for food and lunged at a goldfish and missed. Tap him on the nose and he will let go. Mine let go immediatly anyways. Well, I think I have rambled on long enough. Good luck with him.

Aaron

 

[armchairangel]

Everyone has given you sound advice and I've even taken some of it for my own use. My husband and I have a baby gator too. We've had her since she was about 16 inches and she's getting close to 3 feet now. There are two things that I'd like to add that haven't been mentioned yet.

We have our girl trained to come to us for food. We click the feeding tongs in a certain way and she'll walk to us and gently take the food. This is to facilitate moving her when she's bigger.

As far as yours being tame, I'm more inclined to think that its so afraid of you its pretending its dead. When we first got Beastie, we thought it was so cool how we could pet her head between her eyes and she'd close them and go limp as if she were in total bliss. I'd have her sit on my lap and I'd rub her head, thinking I was a queen cuz she was so docile with me. Actually, it was us putting human feelings to her actions when they don't have emotions. She looked like a human enjoying something, so we thought she was. About a month or two later, we learned that what she was doing was actually showing a very strong fear response and literally going into shock. We've stopped doing that altogether and we consider her 'tame' when she doesn't hiss at us and allows us to handle her without being too thrashy.

Baby gators think that they're prey until they reach a certain size. Everything they do is motivated by the fact that they think they're going to be eaten. While Beastie has learned to come to us for food, she still runs away every chance she can get. And when she sits calmly in my arms, I still think she's scared and that she's just tolerating me.

Our herp vet (who is willing to work with her) has a fond saying about reptiles. "Reptiles don't love you, they only tolerate you."

 

[RickG]

Hey little jerk, lol, from someone who was once a 16 year old little jerk myself in your same situation, I know where you're coming from. When I was 16, I had a couple of spectacled caiman, countless snakes and so on. Most of the time my mother didn't let me keep anything, but she let me earn these privledges. Back then, I got no respect from other older dudes in the exotic animal communtiy.
I grew up never losing my passion for animals and went on to become a wildlife educator teaching kids in different schools about native and South American wildlife.
I will, try to help however I can...
As far as your gator being so tame, as a baby, maybe it's sick, or you just got lucky, babies are normally flighty. Is its basking spot warm enough? It should be close to about 90 degrees.
For now the tank size is big enough, but not for long. Gators grow depending on how much and how often you feed them. I bought 2 2ft long gators a few years ago and had one that I fed less often so that he can stay smaller longer to be able to use him in my school programs. The other one I fed every other day and I was raising him for shows where people wanted a bigger gator(to give my 8 footer a break now and then). In one year, the one I fed least often was about 3 ft (and dog tame) while the one I fed most often got to about 6 1/2 feet and agressive. Now the small one is 4 feet and the bigger one os about 8.
I live in Florida so setting up an outdoor habitat was no problem. I have no idea what your housing situation is, but this may help. When I had my caiman as a kid, I was living in Colorado and my mother let me use our 2 car garage for my animals. My caiman had a habitat that was basically a closed in room made with plywood and 2 x 4's (8ft x 6ft) with gravel, a pond made with liner, logs for basking and two 250 watt heat lamps just over the logs as basking spot they also had turtles in there, but they were too big for the caiman to even try to eat (so get bigger turtles about 3 inches for your little guy, don't get turtles that are too big 'cause they may eat the gator). Oh and stick to gators and not caimans... They are much easier to tame.

 

[RickG]

By the way... You made the comittment to take in this little gator. Be ready for a big gator. As you feed him (or her), it will learn to associate you with food and someday will result in a bite (be ready for that one). That's why it is illegal to feed wild gators here in Florida. If you don't feed them, they do not bother with people... Regardless of the stories you may hear.