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Alternative to live?

K

KatieDB

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I was wondering if Fluker's Freeze-Dried Crickets and/or Zoo Med Repti Cricket were viable alternatives to live food. I have no problems feeding live and have been doing so for the past 6 months. However Ive been worried about the amount of gutloading my crix recieve before being fed and thought the freeze-dried would be a good alternative. My leo has eaten crickets that i have accidentily smushed and so i dont think lack of movement will be an issue(he has a designated food dish that hes always keeping an eye on). However if there is an issue with the freezedried, i can go back to live easily.

Do you guys think they are nutritional enough to be a staple? Also, anyone know how many crickets to a jar?
 
Good questions there. I do not think freezedried will be good as a staple, I cannot see the nutritional value of it. I have used freezedried snails for a lizard I own, takes it well but prefers them live. Seems the lizard either likes the fresh slime better, actually prefers worms over the freezedried, but will take it if there is not other options. I would suggest(philosophy of Michael) sticking with live. Good luck, hopefully someone who knows a lot more than than me about crickets will be able to offer better advice.
 
I have various kinds of "non live" foods but have never tried any of them, I keep them for an in case of the worst and for some reason may not be able to get live foods in for weather or whatever reason, but I would not use them as a staple diet.

IMHO it would be like us eating freeze dried or similar food items. I mean we eat canned corn but it was never "alive" to begin with and even then the fresh corn on the cob is still better valued than processed and canned. I can't see us eating freeze dried or canned hamburger or it being a staple diet of us.

Gutloading is the easiet of all things, I just leave the gutload in at all times and buy a smaller size than I need so that as they grow they are still feedable. With mealies I buy medium so that they can grow and still be feedable and not pupate out on me.

When crix, if I need 1/2", I b uy 1/4" so they can continue to gutload and grow and still be feedable.
 
dragonflyreptiles said:
Gutloading is the easiet of all things, I just leave the gutload in at all times and buy a smaller size than I need so that as they grow they are still feedable. With mealies I buy medium so that they can grow and still be feedable and not pupate out on me.

When crix, if I need 1/2", I b uy 1/4" so they can continue to gutload and grow and still be feedable.
Click to expand...

The only thing is i don't have the facilities to properly house crickets long enough to be gutloaded properly. They have gutload available, but the crix dont stick around long.

Im not sure i agree with your canned corn analogy as canned corn isn't specifically fortified to meet our needs....but i do see your point.

This is the ingredients list for the Zoo Med, its sounds pretty promising to me but im wondering what you guys think:

"Crickets, natural flavorings, vitamin mix [vitamin A, D3, E, B1, B6, B12 supplements, ascorbic acid, folic acid, niacin, biotin, pantothenic acid, minerals and electrolytes, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, iodine (kelp), iron (ferrous fumarate), magnesium oxide, copper sulfate, manganese carbonate, sodium chloride, zinc oxide, potassium chloride]."
 
I highly doubt that the freeze dried or canned insects have been give a high quality gut load. I've never tried the freeze dried, but most of my leos would take the canned (this was back when I was hand feeding all mine). Back when I was feeding crickets, I'd gut load all my crix for 48 hours feed some to my leos and freeze the rest. Then I would thaw out a set amount and feed them to my leos. I'm pretty allergic to crickets so it was a lot easier for me to just freeze them rather than battling allergies constantly. I did this for 2 or 3 years before I made the transition to mealworms and my collection increased making hand feeding impractical.

-Alice
 
Katie,

I agree with Alice and if your crix are being used before they can gutload well, just buy more of a smaller size because the space is not that much, you can use a large critter keeper or 10 gallon tank to house up to 500 crix easily enough to provide gutload 24/7 before feeding them out. Just buy a smaller size, you will feed out more of a smaller size but as they grow they will still be a feedable size for your leos. Crikcets grow pretty fast, 1/4" to 1/2" if kept in proper temps and gutload can take as little as 2 weeks and save money from buying in a small bulk at the same time.

The thing about the canned stuff that bothers me the most is the D3, D3 is a very long stainding issue of some debate but from what I gather it should not be in the daily diet but a "from time to time supplement" more like 1-2 times a month.

Now do the canned foods even have enough D3 to matter, who knows, thats a big if too.

Vitamin A is also known to cause problems in excess, but as above, what is excess and do the canned foods have enough to cause a problem?
 
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Freezedried feeders are not as healthy as live/gutloaded feeders. The canned stuff is more of a back up...although it is marketed as a "convienence" or "alternative to live"...it really is neither. You may try raising mealworms or roaches (they are less hassle than crickets, and better feeders). Silkworms are also good alternatives and I have never had any problem raising them up by the thousands.
 
aliceinwl said:
I highly doubt that the freeze dried or canned insects have been give a high quality gut load. I've never tried the freeze dried, but most of my leos would take the canned (this was back when I was hand feeding all mine).
Click to expand...

Maybe im just being naive, but if they say theyve gutloaded the crix and there is ingredients listed on the jar, why wouldnt they be gutloaded? Ive always thought Fluker's and ZooMed were two of the most reliable reptile supply companies, so Im finding hard to believe they would misrepresent a product.

Back when I was feeding crickets, I'd gut load all my crix for 48 hours feed some to my leos and freeze the rest. Then I would thaw out a set amount and feed them to my leos. I'm pretty allergic to crickets so it was a lot easier for me to just freeze them rather than battling allergies constantly. I did this for 2 or 3 years before I made the transition to mealworms and my collection increased making hand feeding impractical.
-Alice
Click to expand...

Hmm Id love to keep gutloaded crickets in my freezer, but dont think my mom would appreciate it!:look: The reason Im looking into this is that ive been solely feeding mealies(I add gutload to the sawdust they come in, who knows how much they eat) and want to incorperate crix more often. Maybe live mealies and freezedried crix would be an option?
 
I am not sure whether or not leos can even get cancer, but I know that ingesting a lot of freeze-dried, dried products can cause all sorts of stomach ailments in humans and other animals, particularly stomach cancer. I would also worry about whether or not the gutload and the cricket itself keeps its nutritional value when it has been dried and jarred. And would the preservatives be good for the animal long-term? These are some of the things I would consider before using the dried crickets. I would suggest using them as a treat, but stick to the mealworms and maybe try superworms if silkies are hard for you to obtain. Good Luck!
 
One more factor to keep in mind...most of the moisture your geckos need comes from its food items. You may see the geckos drinking out of the water dish but you will need to be wary of dehydration in your geckos.
 
I've read some pretty shady things about Flukers. And, both companies make some not so good products, calcisands, hot rocks, etc. If you read the packaging on these products, there is nothing warning you of their dangers. Although both these companies also make products that I like, I always keep in the back of my mind that they are profit driven. If they could produce feeders just as efficiently by feeding them cheaper slightly less nutritious foods, I have no doubt that they would. I like to do my own gut loading and supplementing as this is the only way I feel that I can assure corners have not been cut. In terms of gut loading your mealies, you could always sift them out of the bran as this will remove the bulk of it and place them in the gut load of your choice. Have your leos ever eaten the freeze dried insects? I tried Zoomed's leopard gecko food once (a fine product consisting of dried flies coated in a mysterious red powder) out of curiosity on a female who will take anything off of forceps and she promptly spit them out and refused to take another taste. Provided your leos will eat these foods I think that it would be fine to offer then occaisionally, but I don't think that they would make good staples.

-Alice
 
Thanks for the advice everyone:)

Ive been sifting my mealies for the past couple weeks now, so im hoping theyre getting nice and full of gutload. I was just worried that feeding mealies more often then crickets would have ill effects on my leo.
 
I feed mealies all the time and only offer crix once a week, sometimes as little as 2 tiems a month. Plus adults get superworms twice a week.

Some feed all mealies others all crix or all supers and some a mix of a few food items.

I agree with Alice, if they will eat it and you only offer it from time to time it should be fine. I do have a variety of canned items from last winter when my crix and mealies could not be delivered, I live on a remote road and the driver put in that he coudl nto access my home to deliver my feeders so I had to go pick them up at fed x later that evening thhe next day I went out and got a few different kinds of canned items as a just in case I need it at some time.

Ive just never used them but if I needed too I would :)
 
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