And you all wonder why I have to make the restrictions I do...

[varnyard]

Rich it seems you assume a lot, without one ounce of proof of your far fetched claims. Still can not admit when you are wrong. I never broke any rules at all, unless stating how I feel about the attack from your mods. I have no new site, I have been there running that site for over two years and you knew it.

As for frothing at the mouth, angry and all the good juicy stuff you are slinging, well who exactly is acting like an adult Rich? Who is the one with the goals here, look around Rich? All of the good ones are leaving, why? Me, not hardly, I was way down the list.

I have never attacked you, if so, post the proof. Yet this is how you act.

As for talking about this site there, not the first post, not even one. I did have this site linked on mine before it turned to this, I thought this was a good site that cared about right and wrong, it has now been removed. I will not support a site that supports this.

 

[varnyard]

Oh, one more thing, you started this thread Rich, not me. It was my name you chose this time.

 

[romad119]

So let me get this straight, this is not appropriate outside the BOI, correct?





Is this appropriate outside the BOI?




I want to know for future postings, where is the line exactly?

I replied per PM.

 

[norsmis]

Do you call this malicious as well?



It was no different than this.

Nothing in that post was malicious at all. All I said was I would not be posting in those forums any longer, if anyone had any questions or comments about my threads they could email me. Now where exactly is that an attack?

UUMMMM.... Yes Bobby it is VERY MUCH different. This is my personal website, not another forum. Like I said before, your intent didn't/doesn't seem honorable...

 

[varnyard]

Ronald, do you really want me to start listing members here that have links to forums in their signatures? There are many, it is still a website, regardless of forums. I might add, with no rule violations here.

As for the signature, you are allowed three lines to use, still no rule violation.

 

[Stardust]

well it dosnt help if people keep mentioning things, or saying things that are to him or about him, i dont think its fair to say, well you said you were gone, so be gone, when things are continually said about that person.

Bobby would have been gone, but this thread was pretty obviously about the stuff that happened when he decided to leave, so i dont think it fair to ask him to sit and be quiet about that.

If there were a thread like this and you were the one mentioned, and you said "im done bye" would you just let people keep on talking or mentioning things about you, or what youve done? Probably not. As far as the sitewide use of fauna, i do think bobby isnt going to be using the site, so until things are settled or not, and this thread dies, i dont see anything wrong with him posting to defend himself. Y'know?

I know id keep posting if stuff was still brought up. *shrugs* but maybe thats just me.

Actually, if it were me and it was not on the BOI and/or pertaining to any animals or my business then yes I would just walk away and not keep coming back.
I know the people that know me know what I think and can always just ask me outside of Fauna. I know I would do this because I have done it. Just walked away and did not bother to look back and see.
Once the source of the drama is gone the thread tends to go away as well.

I will say this, I have never seen Rich admit when he was wrong, never, have you? I see a long drawn out post to prove he is always right, but never admission of anything wrong. Is he the only perfect one here?

Yes, I can say that Rich did apologize to me rather recently (few months ago) for bringing something up in a thread. It was in a PM as I PM'ed him first about it but none the less he did apologize and gave an explaination. It was private and so will stay private.

You know just because you personally has never seen Rich apologize or say he was wrong does not mean he has not done so.

 

[norsmis]

Ronald, do you really want me to start listing members here that have links to forums in their signatures? There are many, it is still a website, regardless of forums. I might add, with no rule violations here.

As for the signature, you are allowed three lines to use, still no rule violation.

Actually, I would love to see a list of people who have links to other forums in their signatures who have said I AM LEAVING AND NOT COMING BACK like you did. I know people have other forums linked in their signatures BUT, I bet those people aren't slamming the hypothetical door on this site either.
Again intent is everything...

 

[varnyard]

I was not talking about a personal apology. I was talking about posts and actions on the forums. I too have heard of the personal ones as well.

 

[varnyard]

Actually, I would love to see a list of people who have links to other forums in their signatures who have said I AM LEAVING AND NOT COMING BACK like you did. I know people have other forums linked in their signatures BUT, I bet those people aren't slamming the hypothetical door on this site either.
Again intent is everything...

Well it is your intent that has no proof to back up your statement. You are just putting a big question mark above my head based on nothing.

I will not search for a list, but everyone here knows they exsit. Go looking, you will find them.

 

[Stardust]

I was not talking about a personal apology. I was talking about posts and actions on the forums. I too have heard of the personal ones as well.

Ok Bobby, I must have misunderstood what you were saying, sorry.

 

[varnyard]

Well, I am out of here unless my name is brought up again. The fact of the matter is, I was wrong when I thought Rich deleted my posts in the tegu forums. He only pulled the stickies, I did not go searching, all of them were on the top of that forum. I did remove my pictures after that point, I figured what was the use. I am not talking about the deleted leaving post.

As for me attacking Rich or this site, well there just is not one ounce of truth in that, there has not been one ounce posted. Did I trust people for advice on how to handle this situation? You bet I did, that is still far from any attack.

So if you are now done Rich and everyone else, I will take my ball and go home.

 

[WebSlave]

Ronald, do you really want me to start listing members here that have links to forums in their signatures? There are many, it is still a website, regardless of forums. I might add, with no rule violations here.

As for the signature, you are allowed three lines to use, still no rule violation.

Get this straight, Bobby, I don't have a problem, normally, with people posting links to their websites. I really don't care one way or the other. But I DO have a problem when someone cops an attitude ranting and raving about this site and they are leaving, and then wants to tell everyone about the site they can come visit them at. THAT is what I have a problem with. It's the NATURE of how it is done that matters. It is THOSE kinds of people engaging in such mannerisms that I have no desire whatsoever to help in any way. I guess I am really curious why you believe I should think otherwise about your obvious intentions.

Otherwise this site is just littered with links to other sites pretty darn similar to this one, and certainly some people would compare as competing with this one in content. Big deal. As long as they aren't HERE to merely cause me grief and trump up incidents to try to give people reasons to come to their site instead of this one, I really don't care. More power to them. But YOU and YOUR attitude and apparent intentions, yes I DO care.

I really don't HAVE to take the time and effort make it a formal rule in order to stop someone from acting in a destructive and malicious nature on this site. I can do it immediately, without warning, as and when needed. Why else would you post a message of the type

I will no longer be responding to questions or comments on any of these forums. If you have questions or comments about my threads, or tegus feel free to contact me @xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx

Thanks, best regards,
Bobby

Why would you think I would be real thrilled about someone trying to siphon off members visiting that discussion forum? And I seriously doubt anyone will not see through that intent with that message you posted.

Why ELSE would you post in HUGE letters in your signature area, supposedly on your way out the door, the site you are an admin at? Just being friendly to the folks remaining here?

You've made false accusations in this thread that I deleted your formerly stickied posts in the Tegu forum instead of making any real effort to find out the true situation. So yeah, you got egg on your face, because you forgot the proper sequence of FIRE, ready, and aim.

You are trying to crap all over the doorway on your way out of here, and I've about had enough of it. You have a personal issue with someone who has opted to help out with policing this site via the warning system mods. Sorry about that. For better or worse, it's my decision to do it that way, not yours. If you can't live with my decision, although I would prefer it otherwise, then you know where the door is. If you have no real intentions of staying here as an active HELPFUL participant, then I think your motives at this point are crystal clear to everyone.

Last chance, Bobby. Cut the crap. You can leave or not, up to you, but the crap IS going to be gone, even if I have to put you out in order to stop it. You've deleted YOUR photogaphs out of posts in the discussion forums to make your short timer attitude evident, so good for you. I hope it felt good for you when you did that and proud of the image it paints of YOU. Yes, I believe it was done spitefully and out of pettiness. That's my OPINION, and I'm sticking to it.

Oh and as for this comment you made:

I have never attacked you, if so, post the proof. Yet this is how you act.

Are you telling me here, hand on the Bible and everything, that you have NOT attacked me in conversations with others?

Does the phrase "cram it straight up his ass!!" ring a bell?

 

[norsmis]

With all sincerity Bobby, good luck in your travels and happy herping. I meant no ill will to you. Hope all goes well for you in the in the future.

 

[varnyard]

Well Rich, I would say we both assumed a bunch. That said, you bet I said you could cram it. I have put a bunch of hard hours into those forums, you started acting like you really did not care about any of it. So, you bet I said you could cram it.

All of the hard work for what? You tell me Rich, it seems to me none of it ever mattered.

I do wish you the best, I mean that, but I just can not do this anymore.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Wow, a whole lot of ground to cover but I will try.

I think that all of this is getting way out of hand. I was less than myself today and had a situation come up that I could have handled better. I am human and I tend to operate emotionally.

I also agree that as mods, we should have to live up to a higher standard, am I thrilled about some of the new mods here? Maybe not, but I will take it up with them in the appropriate forum.

I did not see Bobby's signature line so I have no oppinion one way or the other. He has always done right by me, I may not always agree with what he has to say, but i will repsect him as my friend.

Bob (Griz) I love you my friend and I think I understand what you were trying to say about the GGC program. I personally do not believe it should be used as a tool to further one's agendas of dislike or antagonism. There are some here that use that as a weapon to gain sympathy and get other's to vote negatively about them. Members of the bearded dragon comunity were crucified earlier this year, and the first mode of attack? Hit their GGC. For a day I bought into the mayhem and then rescinded my vote for it had nothing to do with business.

Dennis Hultman the man of wisdom and reason....you rock my friend and it's good to see you in red again!

 

[WebSlave]

I will say this, I have never seen Rich admit when he was wrong, never, have you? I see a long drawn out post to prove he is always right, but never admission of anything wrong. Is he the only perfect one here?

Oh I've definitely admitted to being wrong in some instances. They are there if you want to look for them. I've been wrong in LOTS of things. Picking certain people for forum moderators for one, comes to mind. Another was that I apologized to Chris Johnson because I felt I had unfairly judged him and his actions. That I was wrong about what I felt were his true motives. In another instance, when some members got banned for their actions on another site, I admitted I was wrong about banning one of them. Maybe more, I don't remember. Those threads are still there, however....

And I thought members here wanted the BOI to be credible and professional, and willing to pay a minimal per year to help make it that way. WRONG!

I never dreamed that so many people would leave this site in protest and acrimony because of my attempts to make the BOI go a step upwards in credibility with that admission fee. REAL WRONG!

I once thought the BOI would be EASY to run because the only ones I would have to worry about getting grief from would be the bad guys. WRONG!

I never thought lawsuit threats would be a dime a dozen because of my involvement with the BOI. WRONG!

I did not fathom the depth of animosity generated when people get warning points for violating rules. Corollary: I thought rules would not be necessary in a site like this except for rare occasions. WRONG!

I thought the karma system would be a fun toy to play with, and never dreamed the abuse people would use it for. WRONG!

I never realized the number of back stabbers I would come into contact with because of this site. WRONG!

I believed being fair to people would naturally make them want to be fair right back to me. WRONG!

I never dreamed that such viciousness could result from my decisions to try to make this site better, to help generate some revenue, and/or both. WRONG!

I thought no one would allow naked self interest stand in the way of just doing what was RIGHT, FAIR, and JUST. WRONG!

I thought I could trust some people who later proved I couldn't. WRONG!

I believed lying was abhorrant to most people. WRONG!

There are more, but you get the idea. All the mistakes I have made and fully admit to have been one hell of a learning curve. And even now, I am still wrong when I believe it should be self evident to people why MY attitude about what is asked of me to do here, is the way it is now.

I thought people would UNDERSTAND, that I have really just had my fill of the crap I have to put up with. WRONG!

The evidence is all around you. The entire history of this site down to the last little sordid details all remain. What you see now, and why you see it like this, is a product of the way this site has changed in response to the stimuli thrown at it and me.

This thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. THIS all came about because one of the more trusted and helpful members here just disagrees with one of my policies. And look where it has led. Acrimony and bad blood spilled, and all for what? Par for the course, as past history has shown.

So, there you go...........

 

[Chameleon Company]

Webslave writes: This thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. THIS all came about because one of the more trusted and helpful members here just disagrees with one of my policies. And look where it has led. Acrimony and bad blood spilled, and all for what? Par for the course, as past history has shown.

It took two to tango.

 

[Seamus Haley]

It took two to tango.

I really hate having to agree with Jim about anything but as I was reading that last line- the words "And what was the common denominator in all those situations to which this applies-

This thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. THIS all came about because one of the more trusted and helpful members here just disagrees with one of my policies. And look where it has led. Acrimony and bad blood spilled, and all for what? Par for the course, as past history has shown.

I am absolutely not calling all of those bad blood situations "your fault" Rich, but looking at it from the outside, there are definitely *some* where your actions fostered that negative attitude. And plenty where you were just burned for no understandable reason- but to seem to color them all as "everyone else's fault, why do they keep doing this to poor blameless me?" is inaccurate. I understand that you've been kicked in the head repeatedly as a direct result of your ownership of this site and there are certainly *some* examples of people deciding to simply try to hurt your efforts. It's not correct to label every problem situation as ridgidly adhereing to that label though; some of the conflicts you have had with individuals were escalated and by them and some were not.

Oh and... since I have been waiting for it for two years now-

And I thought members here wanted the BOI to be credible and professional, and willing to pay a minimal per year to help make it that way. WRONG!

I never dreamed that so many people would leave this site in protest and acrimony because of my attempts to make the BOI go a step upwards in credibility with that admission fee. REAL WRONG!

Told you so. Although again you're mischaracterizing the intent and attitude behind the objections which were raised against that plan. As you seem to mischaracterize the intent of most people who hold an opinion in opposition to your own. It seems nobody can ever disagree simply because they came to a different conclusion based on the avaliable information- they all have to be insidious plotters who gleefully revel in causing you misery and grief. No shades of gray at all for awhile now- there's people who agree with you and people who are somehow evil.

It wasn't a group of evil villains who were opposed to credibility or professionalism; it was (mostly) a group of concerned members who believed that a fee to post invalidated the underlying concept of a free exchange of information which had been touted as a BOI friendly ideal for so long before the change.

There's an old sort of twenty questions mystery riddle deal... An express train is rolling across the plains at midnight and there's a man walking through a sleepercar. He sees a hand hanging out of one of the curtained alcoves, pulls out a revolver and fires through the curtain, killing the occupant. He's detailed and handed over to the authorities at the next station. They hold him for half an hour and then he is released with no charges.

The game is to ask a bunch of questions such as "Were there distinguishing marks on the arm" or "Did the assailant know the victim" to try and figure out what had happened- with the answer being that the man who fired the shot had gotten into an argument with his wife thirty years earlier and attacked her with an axe, cutting off several of her fingers. She escaped, the police came, found the blood and fingers, charged him with murder and he was found guilty- sentances and served his time. When he got out, he reccognized her hand because of the missing fingers and shot her. He couldn't be tried for the same crime twice and had already served his sentance.

Rich, *sometimes* you take a person who disagrees with you and treat them as if they were an enemy, out to destroy you or damage your site just because they offered a different opinion. And you keep treating them that way until they break and actually act upon the attitude you've behaved as if they already held. You seem to be manufacturing disgruntled members out of people who were once staunch supporters. You've got a massive pile of great members to go through before you're left with nothing but the bad element and for awhile after each one of these conflicts that led to a good person leaving or being banned or just not making the positive contributions they used to, I figured it was a fluke or an unfortunate miscommunication... but you're rapidly driving people off and the only constant in each case is that they disagreed with something and explained their position to you. Disagreement with you is the apparant catalyst; I hope you can see why I think that's wrong.

 

[WebSlave]

It took two to tango.

Ah, yes, but who started the music?

 

[WebSlave]

I really hate having to agree with Jim about anything but as I was reading that last line- the words "And what was the common denominator in all those situations to which this applies-



I am absolutely not calling all of those bad blood situations "your fault" Rich, but looking at it from the outside, there are definitely *some* where your actions fostered that negative attitude. And plenty where you were just burned for no understandable reason- but to seem to color them all as "everyone else's fault, why do they keep doing this to poor blameless me?" is inaccurate. I understand that you've been kicked in the head repeatedly as a direct result of your ownership of this site and there are certainly *some* examples of people deciding to simply try to hurt your efforts. It's not correct to label every problem situation as ridgidly adhereing to that label though; some of the conflicts you have had with individuals were escalated and by them and some were not.

Oh and... since I have been waiting for it for two years now-



Told you so. Although again you're mischaracterizing the intent and attitude behind the objections which were raised against that plan. As you seem to mischaracterize the intent of most people who hold an opinion in opposition to your own. It seems nobody can ever disagree simply because they came to a different conclusion based on the avaliable information- they all have to be insidious plotters who gleefully revel in causing you misery and grief. No shades of gray at all for awhile now- there's people who agree with you and people who are somehow evil.

It wasn't a group of evil villains who were opposed to credibility or professionalism; it was (mostly) a group of concerned members who believed that a fee to post invalidated the underlying concept of a free exchange of information which had been touted as a BOI friendly ideal for so long before the change.

There's an old sort of twenty questions mystery riddle deal... An express train is rolling across the plains at midnight and there's a man walking through a sleepercar. He sees a hand hanging out of one of the curtained alcoves, pulls out a revolver and fires through the curtain, killing the occupant. He's detailed and handed over to the authorities at the next station. They hold him for half an hour and then he is released with no charges.

The game is to ask a bunch of questions such as "Were there distinguishing marks on the arm" or "Did the assailant know the victim" to try and figure out what had happened- with the answer being that the man who fired the shot had gotten into an argument with his wife thirty years earlier and attacked her with an axe, cutting off several of her fingers. She escaped, the police came, found the blood and fingers, charged him with murder and he was found guilty- sentances and served his time. When he got out, he reccognized her hand because of the missing fingers and shot her. He couldn't be tried for the same crime twice and had already served his sentance.

Rich, *sometimes* you take a person who disagrees with you and treat them as if they were an enemy, out to destroy you or damage your site just because they offered a different opinion. And you keep treating them that way until they break and actually act upon the attitude you've behaved as if they already held. You seem to be manufacturing disgruntled members out of people who were once staunch supporters. You've got a massive pile of great members to go through before you're left with nothing but the bad element and for awhile after each one of these conflicts that led to a good person leaving or being banned or just not making the positive contributions they used to, I figured it was a fluke or an unfortunate miscommunication... but you're rapidly driving people off and the only constant in each case is that they disagreed with something and explained their position to you. Disagreement with you is the apparant catalyst; I hope you can see why I think that's wrong.

Seamus,

Actually I spent the last hour and a half writing out a reply to this, and while proofreading, I came to the realization that I had said all those words before. MANY times. So I deleted it.

Obviously I am talking to an inattentive audience.....