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Andre McAlister/New Concept Reptiles  INQ

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Rick

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Hi All,
I just wanted to know if anyone has done business with Andre McAlister of New Concept Reptiles in South Carolina.  I am considering a breeding loan with him and he seems above board by email, but just wanted some input if anyone has any.  The only thing that makes me wonder is his address is listed at a PO box, and those are notorious for scams (he is sending a breedable female boa for my male on condition that I pay shipping up front).  We were placed in contact by his friend who I met locally at a show in St. Louis.  Thanks in advance for any comments.
Rick
 
Opps.........forgot:  Rick Kennedy!  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>
 
I know Andre. He used to live here in San Diego and is very well liked. He has an awesome collection of colubrids and really knows his stuff. I don't think you'll have any problems with him.
 
Rick....If you have ANY concerns....just call him and have an "oral" (not written) conversation?? You guys might even become friends?? Of course...if Joe says he's OK, he probably is!!
BTW...Have you asked Andre for his address and phone number?? He's going to have to give it to you sooner or later, or you won't be able to send him his snake back?? You can't ship to a PO box?? ....Neil
 
Rick...I forgot something...even though Andre is probably on the up and up....if you want to have NO WORRIES AT ALL?? Ask him to ship the Boa COD for the shipping charges??

I would like to ask YOU (Rick) a question, if I might?? I really find this very interesting....don't get me wrong...I'm NOT implying ANYTHING with this next question....I'm simply asking because I'm curious!

Andre is sending you a FEMALE boa to have mated with YOUR male?? Correct?? Is Andre letting you KEEP his Female until it gives birth?? Is he paying you for stud service?? Are you sending the snake back right after copulation, and letting Andre send you some babies when they're born?? As I said...I'm just curious?? ....Neil
 
Now wait a minute!

We just had several raging threads in here about IBD and this one reads that someone is planning on doing a breeding loan from someone they don't know?

With the talk of IBD and the possibility of some sort of plague by just this sort of activity and the probable lack of a quarantine procedure, don't you think this is kind of irresponsible behavior?

IMHO
 
Rick,

My name is Fred Albury,I am a reptile breeder from California.
You may or may not have heard of me.My business is called Aztec Reptiles. I specialize in Eastern Indigos,Blood Pythons, Madagascar Ground Boas,Argentine Boas,and various types of Columbian boas.
I say all this to make you understand that as a reptile breeder, my standards are pretty high.My cages are kept clean and my snakes are quarantined prior to introduction into my collection.
Out of all the reptile breeders that I have known in the last 12 years,Andree McAllister is probably one of three that have that same committment. His animals are kept CLEAN, he keeps feed and shed records on ALL his snakes, and not in books like me(Handwritten) but neatly and concisely on a computer program desgined for  just that. He specializes in kings, rosies, Pituophis andother colubrids. Nothing in his collection is mediocre, he has gotten to point in his business/hobby that he rejects snakes that are just ok.
 Example: I have seen "hypomelanistic hognose for sale, time and again, only to see them in person and be disspointed with normal looking hognose.
When Andree sells hognose, and calls them hypomelanistic, they are indeed JUST THAT.

His snakes are what he says, he takes excellent care of them, produces a lot of babies evey year consistantly, and is one of the most trustable person I have EVER known in this industry,
thats because Andree is first of all a consumed hobbyist and secondly a businessman/breeder. i wouldnt hesitate to buy anything from him, or to work out trades with him. Again, after 10+ yearsof this, there are only 3 guys I can honestly say that about. You can stake my business name on it.

                                            Sincerely,

                                             Fred Albury
                                             (Aztec Reptiles)


Website:           www.renegadereptiles.com/aztec.htm

email: [email protected]
 
Thanks to those who left informative comments.....Joe, Neil, Fred (yes, I know of you Fred and your comments are much appreciated).  Sorry if I missed any others.

Neil, you expressed interest in the details.  I was hooked up via a friend of a friend (yea, one of those things) because I lost a female breeder just after comming out of winter and Andre has unpaired females of the same locale.  I posted here just to get any extra info I could, and have the relavant details minus the actual phone conversation (pending).  Andre will be sending out the female and I will be breeding to my male and holding her until babies are born.  Babies will be split, and the female returned unless it is bought outright (he still has 2 other unpaired adult female boas of the same locale).  The next phase is to actually call Andre as you hinted before any mailing or shipping is made.  Had I not gotten good references by this board and a few others, I probably would not have gone through with this deal so thanks.  

Now, this message is for Rich.  I will quote you if I may:  "probable lack of quarantine" and an inference of "irresponsible."  Yes I am aware of your concerns over IBD and animal swapping, etc.  That is not the problem.  What I do have a problem with is your arrogant assumptions in your delivery.  It is as if you assume stupidity on the part of the person posting before knowing anything, and that says something indeed.  Could you not have asked me if I quarantine new arrivals, or if I do any breeding loan activity in separate facilities, or obtain vet assistance prior to introducing new animals?  Are your comments an ego thing, a self-esteem issue, or do you usually just put the cart before the horse?  No I don't personally know Andre, but I also do not know anyone with an available animal/circumstances that I need.  Sometimes one has to climb out on a limb a little, take a bit of a risk, while trying to minimize that risk.  That takes some degree of intellegence which I have my friend.  That is why I posted here and as someone suggested a good connection if not friendship might be made.  But if I can read between the lines of your post, and if I followed that logic, I would never effectively branch out in this hobby.  Please take a moment to re-read your comments then check your motives.  While they are not flamethrowing outright, they could be considered offensive given the assumptions.
 
I don't know snakes (legal disclaimer).

Is there a "season" that they can breed. I am thinking if you do a quarantine for 6 months (just pulling a number out of the hat) either you will miss the opportunity to breed or you will end up having this guy's snake for a year.

I think in much the same way that Orgies lost the fervor from the 60's (DAMN!!!&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> due to STD's (sexually transmitted disease) is the way that Rich was thinking of breeding trades and IBD. Again since I don't reside in Rich's head this only my opinion and how I took his post.
 
Could be.........it is just that one could ASK me if I quarantine before assuming I don't or assuming I am about to partake in irresponsible behavior.  I came here to get some degree of "protection" before jumping into the orgy!
 
Rick...You're too funny! You came here to get "protection" or "peace of mind" before doing a trade....and THEN what do you do?? You SLAM the Webmaster!! I'm SURE you had NO CLUE that Rich Z. IS the webmaster! But...I wouldn't worry about it at all.... Rich is one of the nicest guys I know (Man...am I getting GOOD at this "sucking up", or what??) hahahaha!! ...Party on, dude! ....Neil
 
Rich's comments seemed to be more of a "food for thought", than an attack. I think it is wise to point out the risks involved to those who might not consider that aspect.
Casey Hulse
 
i have to say i agree with rich...
i dont care how clean someone's rep or facility is, at this point quarentine has got to be crucial to the health of snakes on the market.  seems that ibd can hide in collections for quite a while without it being obvious--gee i guess that means that even a 6 month quarentine wont work.
i dont know, i'd think about it long and hard.  i know we have a lonely hogg island that would be ready to breed if we found a mate for him and we considered doing the stud thing, but after this whole ibd scare, i am hesistant to put my guys in contact with any other snake without a 1yr quarentine and wouldnt aquire anything but a hatchling.  
geez i'm paranoid--but then again, i'm really a lizard person so maybe that's why.
boy i sound like one of those abstinence people "it's the only real 100% guarentee". yikes.

Dana
 
This is a tough one, because based on the above post, a 6 month quarantine wouldnt be nearkly long enough. In fact NO quarantine would, which would mean that nobody could bring boas in their collection to breed as they would all be infected with IBD. How do you make this call?
A well known herper(No names no slander) told me about 2 weks ago that the majority of bci are imports and there are not that many people breeding them.
I argued the point as I so often do:)
But, afterwards I went on to kingsnake classifeds and noted that 99% of the Columbian boas sold there were not from BREEDERS, but from brokers and importers who brought them in.
If we assyme that after 6 months of scrutiny, that a boa is not considered"ok" to include in our collection or even to breed,than anser this question: Just WHERe are we supposed to get our captive produced boas from?

From people that allready have establsihed boa colonies with limited bloodlines?

I dont have an answer,  IBD scares the crap out of me and it is hard to believe that the brokers on kingsnake are stil selling as well as they are despite the threat(Public ignorance


Positive feedback?


Fred
 
Now Dana and Rich...you KNOW I love ya, but...Let's not start mass hysteria here?? There are LOADS of things that could be very harmful to us these days...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do them? Of course IBD is a very serious issue, but, we can't just STOP selling snakes because of the POSSIBILITY of IBD?? You probably come in contact with a few people EVERY DAY that have tested POSITIVE for HIV?? Why did you leave the house?? You had better stay inside for up to TEN YEARS, to make sure you don't have it?? See what I mean??
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!! It's BECAUSE of this site that the problem is even KNOWN! Now that we DO know, it's up to EACH OF US to take A LOT more precautions in the purchasing, or loaning of animals...that's all we CAN do!!
I think, Rich, that you're on the right track...but, maybe just a little too extreme??? ....Neil
 
neil,
you got a good point with the hiv thing...i dont feel like that at all with people, so i shouldnt be such a freak with the snake thing.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>
i'd definately, take the condom over abstinence , lol.

love ya too
dana
ps eggs are hatching soon so i owe ya
 
OK, I've got to jump in here.  We talked about this whole quarantine thing on the old BOI and never resolved anything.  IBD is caused by a virus.  Viruses have two different "life" cycles: Lytic and Lysogenic (more on that later).  When we quarantine we are looking for symptoms of the disease in the snake.  Symptoms would only be present if the snake were sick because of the disease caused by the IBD virus.  It's just the same as someone with HIV, they can appear 100% healthy (Magic Johnson ring a bell?) but still carry the virus.  One may, and only may, be able to tell if someone is suffering from AIDS, which is caused by HIV, by looking at them.  We may, and only may, be able to tell if a snake is suffering IBD by looking at it.  WE CANNOT look at a snake and tell whether or not it has been exposed to the IBD virus.  Here's why:

Viruses cannot reproduce on their own.  They must enter a host cell to do that.  Once a virus attaches and injects it's genetic material into a host cell two things can happen; lytic cycle or lysogenic cycle.

In the lysogenic cycle the viral DNA is copied along w/ the cellular DNA everytime the cell undergoes mitosis.  The cell functions as normal and therefore the host animal is unaffected.  But the virus is being reproduced, it's just not doing any harm.  The viral DNA will continue with this plan of action until a stimulus comes along and causes the lytic cycle to begin.  

In the lytic cycle the viral DNA comes out of the cells chromosome and basically takes over cell function.  Instead of the cell doing whatever it is supposed to be doing the viral DNA tells the cells to start making more viruses, and the cell does.  In fact, the cell will make so many viruses that it will eventually explode sending new viruses out to do more damage.  This cycle is what causes organisms to become ill.  One feels ill because ones' cells are not doing what they are supposed to do.  There is no cure for viruses because technically they are not even living things.  Antibiotics, as the name implies only work on biotics (living things).

So when we get in a new animal and we place it in quarantine all we are doing is looking to see if the stress of shipping has been the stimulus that causes the virus to enter the lytic cycle.  We cannot tell whether or not it is carrying the virus that causes IBD (or any other for that matter), unless it looks sick.  Even then the only way to tell if you've got a case of IBD is to etopsy the animal.  You could quarantine an animal for ten years, pull it out, breed it and that breeding be the stimulus that triggers the lytic cycle.  Hell, a change in bedding could be the stimulus, any type of stressor can cause the lytic cycle to trigger. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

With snake metabolism the way it is, I believe that 2-3 wks at proper temp. and humidity, should be enough to tell weither your new animal is suffering from anything.  That and it's feeding response and digestive ability are the real tell-tale signs IMHO.  

Brian Conley
 
Brian Conley,

   EXCELLENT post, thank you for the amount and depth of information contained therein. I personally learned a lot.

                                       
                                                  Thanks,

                                                    Fred Albury
                                                  (Aztec Reptiles)
 
Ok.....This tree grew a lot of branches in a short while.  After a VERY pleasant phone conversation and great reviews in the earlier posts, TWO rosy boas are on their way to breed to my male for the cheap low cost of shipping.  I acheived my objectives which were to minimize any "rip off" risk as much as possible both via the BOI (thank you....a great tool) and phone calls to others.  

Now in terms of other issues.....the new arrivals will be quarantined both initially and through breeding and gestation.  If anything crops up (ie. IBD symptoms or parasites on fecals) then I have minimized exposure to my collections (one poor male boa turned lab rat).  I was considering doing pancreatic biopsys here at home, but I can't find my "Do it yourself" kit.  I will hold them up to a bright light and candle the organs looking for inclusions.....ba ha ha.  Really though, I can only minimize risk as much as possible, but I will take some degree of reasonable risk to have fun with this hobby.  If disaster happens, I will start over.    Neil, as you know now, no I hadn't paid attention to who the webmaster is and I felt a bit of a schmuck for it, but hey, still got a chuckle out of it and got to defend my stellar herp practices!  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
 
so how do you all feel about using ball pythons to test for IBD? I don't know if it would work, if the boa is just a carrier and isn't showing any symptoms of IBD, would it still affect the BP?
sue frederick
 
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