• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

Unfortunately yes it may be an expensive animal. And yes it may be a radiated. All of which in my opinion don't play a roll. The hype of commercialization and desire of radiated tortoises has spun a little out of control. Would this BOI have been posted if it were a hinge-back?

I have dealt in many situations with truly terrible business people in this industry, in many situations like this too. I have acquired very high end animals from people, (so called reputable people at that too). To be honest. It is tragic yes, but the problem is the generalization and public display makes the stories unfold in a very emotional manor. Andrew is not a machine. No person is perfect. Shipping animals in general is a huge gamble. Even through Delta I have received DOAS under exemplary shipping conditions(weather, packing, etc...) were perfect.

I do sympathize with the loss and some communication errors on Andrews part. But this incident in my opinion does not justify that he is a bad guy. Maybe Its just the optimistic nature I hold. But too often now days you see people bashing, and appointing judgement onto people, when really an unfortunate event happened. I don't feel this constitutes a right to paint his image as all bad. Yes it was a sour incident. I would feel terrible if It happened to me. But I would accept the reality, and move on.
 
So what makes a bad guy??

If a seller doesn't properly pack an animal, regardless of the animals value, does that make him bad? I truly think so. That turtle suffered a horrendous death directly due to ATC

If a seller then concocts a story in rebuttal about the trade tort dying but refuses to provide proof, does that make him a lier and a bad guy? I think so. ATC was dishonest from the start concerning this transaction.

If a seller then tries to save face and offer the buyer a completely ridiculous compensation only after this whole goes public, does that make him a bad guy? I think so. And I also thinks it makes him a completely worthless businessman.

The bottom line is that ATC could have taken a monetary hit and taken care of his customer. HE DIDNT. He made excuses. Instead of making this an opportunity to shine and provide excellent customer care, ATC is washing his hands of the whole mess and counting on people forgetting this or hoping enough people will take his side.

This entire mess has gotten THOUSANDS of views, and lost ATC money. It will continue to do so until ATC makes it right with his customer.

It doesn't matter that 99 out of 100 transactions have gone great. Do YOU want to be that 100th person that gets screwed??

No. And that's why the BOI exists.
 
tortadise said:
Unfortunately yes it may be an expensive animal. And yes it may be a radiated. All of which in my opinion don't play a roll. The hype of commercialization and desire of radiated tortoises has spun a little out of control. Would this BOI have been posted if it were a hinge-back?

I have dealt in many situations with truly terrible business people in this industry, in many situations like this too. I have acquired very high end animals from people, (so called reputable people at that too). To be honest. It is tragic yes, but the problem is the generalization and public display makes the stories unfold in a very emotional manor. Andrew is not a machine. No person is perfect. Shipping animals in general is a huge gamble. Even through Delta I have received DOAS under exemplary shipping conditions(weather, packing, etc...) were perfect.

I do sympathize with the loss and some communication errors on Andrews part. But this incident in my opinion does not justify that he is a bad guy. Maybe Its just the optimistic nature I hold. But too often now days you see people bashing, and appointing judgement onto people, when really an unfortunate event happened. I don't feel this constitutes a right to paint his image as all bad. Yes it was a sour incident. I would feel terrible if It happened to me. But I would accept the reality, and move on.
Click to expand...

That just doesn't wash. I'm sure that you are trying to help your friend, but you are prolonging the exposure of his VERY POOR business tactics. You will not get the last word here and the VAST majority of people reading and posting in this thread have already made the call. "Accept the reality and move on"...
 
tortadise said:
But this incident in my opinion does not justify that he is a bad guy.
Click to expand...

And you have every right to have that opinion. That is what the BOI is for, the issues are posted and readers can them make their own judgments as to whether they want to do business with the parties in question.


tortadise said:
don't feel this constitutes a right to paint his image as all bad.
Click to expand...

Now you are taking an impermissible step. You had a right to your own opinion, we all have a right to our respective opinions. But now you are trying to tell us what OUR opinion should be and trying to direct our 'rights', telling that we should not portray the parties as we see them..
 
So In going back through and skimming all the post. I got a lot of judging without factual or evident proof. ATC claims he packed as if he usually does. I really believe they would not have put an animal in a plastic bag. So I would like to play devils advocate. I need to see proof to be certain and make judgment against ATC. Is their photographic evidence of the deceased animal upon removal of this "bag"? Was the purchaser running an errand when delivery was to be taken? Did UPS screw up as stated by both parties? Was a necropsy done on the animal to rule out the possible 1% chance it could of been something else coincidentally? Maybe not. Maybe there should of been ice packs, maybe even a heat pack? Desert gets cold at night. I am in the middle on this one. I get tired of seeing too many people sit behind a keyboard and stroke their ego and side with one person when they truly may not have seen all the details of said issue. I may be wrong, I may be right. But I have not seen any evidence to employ a definitive right or wrong on either party.
 
tortadise said:
So In going back through and skimming all the post. I got a lot of judging without factual or evident proof. ATC claims he packed as if he usually does. I really believe they would not have put an animal in a plastic bag. So I would like to play devils advocate. I need to see proof to be certain and make judgment against ATC. Is their photographic evidence of the deceased animal upon removal of this "bag"? Was the purchaser running an errand when delivery was to be taken? Did UPS screw up as stated by both parties? Was a necropsy done on the animal to rule out the possible 1% chance it could of been something else coincidentally? Maybe not. Maybe there should of been ice packs, maybe even a heat pack? Desert gets cold at night. I am in the middle on this one. I get tired of seeing too many people sit behind a keyboard and stroke their ego and side with one person when they truly may not have seen all the details of said issue. I may be wrong, I may be right. But I have not seen any evidence to employ a definitive right or wrong on either party.
Click to expand...

Actually that is an outright lie. You ARE NOT "in the middle on this one". Now you are waffling and starting with the insults. I haven't seen anyone "stroking their ego". We only have the original post and ATC's replies to judge from. Again, the vast majority have decided. Maybe you "haven't seen any evidence to employ a definitive right or wrong on either party", but I have. Keep it up, you are not helping your friend ATC one bit...
 
So what makes you decide my thought and believes on a certain subject and where I stand? This is why I dont ever come on to these forums. Who said He was my friend? Just an assumption I presume? Given that I was a mere percentage that didnt slander or go against him. Why should I follow the crowd just off words typed, when no evidence has been presented on either parties. Sides of stories is not evidence, that is heresay.
 
tortadise said:
So what makes you decide my thought and believes on a certain subject and where I stand? This is why I dont ever come on to these forums. Who said He was my friend? Just an assumption I presume? Given that I was a mere percentage that didnt slander or go against him. Why should I follow the crowd just off words typed, when no evidence has been presented on either parties. Sides of stories is not evidence, that is heresay.
Click to expand...

Not deciding your thoughts at all. I think that anyone can read you posts and easily see that you are certainly not "in the middle on this one". Are you going to say that he is not your friend and you don't know him? Please do! And yes, you were one of the "mere percentage" that didn't go against ATC. That is because he was totally wrong in this transaction. Plenty of evidence has been presented and ATC has pretty much done himself in by his own actions.
 
laterob said:
ATC bumping his own threads but not commentating while watching this one speak loudly enough for me.
Click to expand...

I agree.

It's amazing he took the time to thank his friends but won't right his wrongs.


Andrew, you have had the ability to make this right all along. What's stopping you? Lack of funds? Pride? Why won't you do your darnedest to do right by this??

Why are you hoping this will be forgotten? This is the BOI. You could have many good guy posts, but guess what? This BAD GUY is the most popular.

Only YOU MAKING THIS BETTER will change it.
 
I'm glad to see that the other Hermes/ATC threads have been linked to this thread, so potential buyers can read it and make up their own minds about whether they would want to proceed with a transaction.
 
It says volumes about ATC that he is obviously contacting previous customers to start good guy threads in addition to going back and bumping other ones himself. An act of desperation? He has unfinished business in this thread which he should address. The measure of a "good guy" is how he acts when something goes wrong.
 
I was checking out BOI for another purpose and saw this thread.I have NEVER shipped a reptile but have shipped poultry and parrots.Has anyone ever found out for certain about the plastic bag? I also just read an item yesterday of a high end bearded dragon breeder who has a stellar reutation,his dragon was drowned at a UPS center.Could have ATC simply decided for the well being of the tortoise to tell Erik he would NOT Ship UPS,I am sure all would have ended differently.I alould like to state at the risk of sounding like a simplistic moron,the plastic bag could have been the deciding factor in this case. I would suggest if UPS added the plastic bag because of urine, it was not sealed properly for UPS.Perhaps this is the area of culpability.Plastic bag-suffocation-reason plastic bag was added- reason for culpability.That being said, I feel some folks do not realize how inclimate weather can be here even in the spring.It was 92 here yesterday.I simply refuse to send my shipments out no matter what the buyer's wishes are in regards to shipping companies and weather conditions.If it isn't a shipment I am comfortable with I will not ship regardless of sale lost.
 
David Scarboro said:
he is obviously contacting previous customers to start good guy threads
Click to expand...
That's my assumption, also. It's one thing that never fails to piss me off: the mindless sycophants who are called in to do their best to completely miss the point. 'As long as it's not happening to me, it's fine.' The Manny Frade defense. In my eyes, if someone is going to blindly support what ATC has done, they're no better than he is. With that in mind, I suppose I should thank them for openly standing up to be counted. I have a feeling that there may be readers whose List has gotten a few names longer.
 
It sure looks as if the ATC is out and about! It is still the issue at hand of a tortoise being dead, a seemingly respected buyer being out a considerable amount of money and the issue(as I see it)as too the plastic bag being added and why it had to be added(if urine was the case then how is anyone responsible but the person initially packing the animal? The good guy ATC boi threads look really foolish imho.
 
I should add,I agree with the other folks,the inclusion of this post on the good guy threads are significant! I have had many successful sales of my animals BUT how I handle my less than acceptable shipments and/or sales is the deciding factor as to my integrity.All these folks having successful transactions are great but it doesn't negate the fact something terrible happened and could have been handled quite differently imho.
 
In the few posts ATC has made he continually mentions that having a tortoise shipped is a risk.
I cannot speak for everyone,but as far as I am concerned,it is a risk to ship any live animal.It is the risk the seller takes to make the sale.If I ship a snake to someone and they are there to receive it and it is DOA due to shipper neglect/error,they get another snake or a refund including shipping.
ATC chose the carrier and improperly packed the box.ATC is responsible.End of story.
Jamey
 
Back
Top