Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

[Fangthane]

Bump

Seeing as there's a comical little PR campaign by ATC and his new cheerleader, it's only right that this, the most relevant thread, should stay on top of the newer threads that are meant to bury it. Anyone else catching a whiff of desperation in the air?

 

[Magic]

Seeing as there's a comical little PR campaign by ATC and his new cheerleader, it's only right that this, the most relevant thread, should stay on top of the newer threads that are meant to bury it. Anyone else catching a whiff of desperation in the air?

Dan,

I'm not getting a whiff. I'm getting a mighty powerful gust of western wind bringing the smell of mile high manure. It stinks.

I wonder if it's the horribly awful (and very sad) smell of a radiated tortoise sent to its death by ATC?

No, I'm sure the tort is at peace. So the smell must be of greed and desperation. You're right

 

[MouhotiiFan]

I have read every post in this thread, and was contemplating offering ATC some CB Chersina in trade. I think I will steer clear. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[David Scarboro]

So Andrew, How is the thread bumping, Joe I cheerleading thing working out? Not so well it seems. You were here last night right after 11. Still not going to man up and make this right???

 

[j_dunlavy]

Bump

I have a soft spot in my heart for tortoises so to hear about one dying in such a way infuriates me immensely
This is beyond just the issue of money, this is also an issue about the death of a CITES I listed Radiated tortoise!

Sooo, if shipping endangered species via UPS violates their TOS, I wonder what other endangered species laws may have been broken by Arizona Tortoise Compound/Andrew Hermes in the process...
Isn't there something in the CITES text that mentions harm to endangered species?
I wonder what USFW would have to say about it...

 

[David Scarboro]

Andrew has went quiet. He has been here, but his only activity has been bumping all of his good guy threads and trying, and failing to recruit a cheering section. All sellers perform satisfactorily occasionally. The mark of a GREAT seller is how they act when things go wrong. And eventually, they will.

 

[Magic]

I just don't understand why ATC won't take care of this!

It's been over SIX MONTHS SINCE ATC CAUSED THAT RADIATED'S DEATH.

Andrew could have been slowly refunding if he were that broke he couldn't do it all at once.

It really doesn't matter at this point if he is still trying to raise cheerleaders to vouch for him. He screwed over a customer, and to date WONT MAKE IT RIGHT.

 

[treeboa]

Like I said earlier, it doesn't really matter when the tortoise died. It died because of improper packaging, whether from a tumble out of the box or being put in plastic. It's not carrier error. With his live arrival guaranty he owes Eric for the DOA. I don't doubt he's been a good guy in the past, but I think the dollar amount and the fact it was really a friends animal is keeping him from doing the right thing. The UPS thing was brought up but I think all that could do is get his UPS account revoked. The fact he sent a tortoise across state lines that wasn't actually his and thus had no permit for may be a different story. Andrew owes Eric money plain and simple, not a discount on animals. That is BS and totally unacceptable.

 

[laterob]

Hopefully Andrew will revisit this issue, as he is catching up on it...

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Re: Fauna BOI

Fauna Classifieds and the BOI is a very important site to our reptile industry. We need members like David, Treeboa and other members to raise awareness to certain posts to help others not get scammed by fraudulent people/posters. The BOI is also for people to post complaints about businesses/people and transactions. So I have no hard feeling to David and the other members. Simply they are just trying to do there part for the industry and the reptile community. The only problem on this bad guy thread is that no real proof has been provided for them to see the actually things that happen during this transaction. I could provide some documentation and emails to help support the statement that I said and what has happened. Erik could also simply post the pictures of the received package and emails between us. The problem there is we had phone conversations between emails that we both did not record or could provide true records of those conversations. Erik is a very intelligent person as well. He took time to look at my terms and conditions before the purchase and we had phone conversations about it. Intelligence doesn't make up for laziness though. Erik was all over the tracking of this shipment. Once he new the UPS hub in Ontario CA had a mix up with his package he emailed me letting me know about it right away. I found out about the problem that UPS caused and they were willing to work with Erik and I. They said Erik could come down first thing in the morning to pick up the package from the hub. He didn't want to do that. He asked for the package to be put back on the truck the second day and delivered to his front gate. Remember he wanted me to put on the package label "leave at the gate" for him to pick up after he got off work. The UPS truck didn't arrive until 5 pm the second day of shipping. Erik has photos of the received shipment. Photos clearly show that UPS took one of my four labels off my package, they placed my original shipping package with now three labels into a plastic bag, UPS then took the bagged box and placed it into a larger cardboard box and slapped my one label onto the top of the new box. With UPS causing carrier delays my terms were broke. I tried my best to find where and how Erik could get his package in a timely alive manner. Erik didn't want to pick up the package from the hub that could have saved this problem. Erik also wanted me not to ship through the airlines and asked me to ship through UPS against what I thought would be best for the tortoise. (my fault for letting that happen). I'm human and feel horrible for Erik's loss. I told him that I could not and wouldn't refund him his cash and tortoise but I offered him free hatchling that I produce or at cost on items that I have for pretty much life is what I said exactly! I told him I maintain around 25 different adult groups of different tortoise species and produce high numbers of hatchlings each year. He asked about the Radiated hatchlings I told him I didn't have some right now that I hatched out myself but I do have a line on Radiateds at 800 ea wholesale and that might be a way for him to raise money for his loss. I don't blame him on not jumping on that one. I also offered him some cash plus what else I offered. He said he didn't want any of that and just his tortoise back and cash. I could not give his tortoise back since I didn't have it in my possession. He said he was going to post a bad guy thread on the BOI. I asked him not to do that and to work with me, but I also told him if he posts a bad guy thread on Fauna that I would not give him anything and that this transaction between us would be over. So he posted the following week. That ended anything that I was willing to offer him. He knows that and was willing to do that as his retribution. I stick by what I stand for and I state. I also stand behind my terms and conditions of my website. I'm an active contributor to our industry as a member on the TTPG, TSA,Turtle Conservancy & Behler Chelonian Center, Tortoise forums, classified sites and others. A.T.C. helps with education of our youth by doing presentations at our neighborhood elementary schools and offering specials to teachers for class room pets. Again I'm sorry for Erik, his loss, the most friendly Radiated tortoise in the world that died and how all this happened. Erik and I both have learned from this and we both have changed how we handle reptile transactions in the future. Again all parties evolved had permits and never broke any laws. I should also say sorry to the many other members that have read this and got their emotion worked up that do not know all the details. I Andrew Hermes and Arizona Tortoise Compound are not in the business to hurt or kill any animals or tortoises and whenever something out of our control happens we try our best to get things work out for the best. I need to say thank you to all past customers that have been trying to post the good comments in support.

 

[laterob]

It shouldn't be "his loss", it should be YOURS.

Do you, or do you not, offer a live animal guarantee?

16,000 plus views. Refund the man and be done with it.

 

[treeboa]

So Eric knew he had a live tortoise in a damaged box at the hub waiting and didn't pick it up. UPS then, knowing it was a live animal put it in a plastic bag to be delivered the next day. Can you see where that is hard to believe? Also, when Eric asked for his tortoise and money back, you told him the animal died. Now you're saying it's not your animal and money to return? Is Eric's tortoise dead or not? It seemed in Eric's post you offered future hatchlings, but when I looked at your site back then, you had Radiated hatchlings listed for sale. Why not offer those? Can you see where an offer of hatchling of a slow growing species as a replacement for an adult may not be acceptable to your customer?

I see someone who was doing a favor for a friend, used substandard packaging, got burned by it, and now is trying not to get nicked for a lot of cash. Blame the customer, the shipper, the friend, it all sounds like Dan Scolaro, Backwater, etc. I don't think that is you though. Take a look at Underground's threads. They have thousands of satisfied customers, but have a serious black eye from a handful of situations like you have here.

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Laterbob and Treeboa I addressed both of that in my posts before. Please go back and read that. It is hard to believe that UPS would do that with a live tortoise package clearly marked, but they did. Just like how I lost Erik's business, UPS lost my business.

 

[SofaKing]

So if this was about a $200 or even a $500.00 animal I bet Andrew wouldn't hesitate to resolve the issue. Since we're talking about a pricey animal, well go figure he wouldn't want to resolve it and distance himself from any fault.

I don't see UPS at fault here, they were doing their job. If the tort wasn't mis packaged, then this would have never happened!

 

[treeboa]

Actually you didn't about the box. Do you dispute the packaging was substandard and fell apart in transit? You can blame UPS and Eric all you want, bottom line, box doesn't break, tortoise arrives alive. YOUR FAULT! You can be pissed that Eric brought this here all you want, but if you don't deal with it, you BOTH lose. Read the thread you've already lost some business.

 

[zovick]

Agreed, Jeff. ATC can blame UPS till the cows come home, but this delay happened BECAUSE the WRONG type of shipping container for the animal being shipped was selected, not because UPS mishandled the package. The UPS agents were doing what they had to do to keep the contents from falling out the bottom of the box. They couldn't send it on its way when the box was deteriorating, so had to hold on to it a while until they figured out what to do.


By the way, it is 350 miles from the Ontario hub to Erik's house, so it is no wonder he could not run right over and pick up the dead tortoise.

Additionally where has any proof been provided that the one he sent ATC is really dead? It would seem to me that with all this controversy starting right away it would have been a very wise idea to document the death of that animal, which hasn't been done unless I missed something.

 

[ErikL]

There are many incorrect statements in Andew's above post. So many, in fact, I am going to choose not to address them individually. It is my belief they have been addressed in my previous posts so it boils down to one persons word versus another, which for the most part I will leave up to the board to decide for themselves. I am appreciative for all of the input provided by the forum members thus far and will make notification as things proceed to conclusion. Thanks again, Erik

 

[Lucille]

I told him that I could not and wouldn't refund him his cash and tortoise

He said he was going to post a bad guy thread on the BOI. I asked him not to do that and to work with me, but I also told him if he posts a bad guy thread on Fauna that I would not give him anything and that this transaction between us would be over.

No matter what he did, he was not going to get a satisfactory solution.


Your long description of what a great person you are and all those teacher discounts and whatnot, are first of all not documented
and second of all patting yourself on the back for all your contributions and discounts simply makes you look worse for turning your back on your customer here. Obviously if you are handing out bucks like you say you are, you can hand them to your customer to make this right.

This is not going away, and the longer the issue is unresolved, the further the tale of the unfortunate deceased tort will travel.

 

[David Scarboro]

Andrew, it is good that you FINALLY worked yourself up to address this. Your explanation however will not wash. I think that has already been shown. It is still not too late to step up and do the right thing here. Better late than never. My big issue here is the way you suddenly began a good guy campaign on yourself by having a group of people suddenly appear and leave glowing posts on you behalf while you were dredging up old posts and commenting on them to bump them. THAT did not work. Also, in the future I would be careful who I called on for help as I think that worked strongly against you. Take care of your customer, practically the whole reptile world is watching.

 

[Mistyck]

Gee Mr. Hermes sure is full of himself. I don't buy his story, and find it suspicious that all of these "good guy" posts are just suddenly popping up out of no where.