Angel Vazquez PROBLEM BUYER 66% dh blizzard

[Mickey_TLK]

I am curently bieng threatened lawsuit by Angel for selling a poss dh blizzard boa (male).

The buyer (angel) tried to sell the snake to another person, who contacted me for genetic background.

I informed the buyer that yes the animal was what It is bieng sold as (a 66% poss dh blizzard boa , i.e. 66% het albino and 66% het type 2 anery).

Here is just one of the emails I have recieved from Angel since responding lastnight to the other "buyer"

---------------------------------------------------------

You contradict what you say. You are the confused and if you practiced good business there would be no issue to begin with. Very simple, you stated that there were no more of these boas available this year, then you tell the other person that these boas are easily obtainable? Can you tell me who has them for sale right now? You can't say otherwise because he forwarded me the email you sent him. Also, I don't know why you keep on bringing up the issue that the male is less expensive than the female. This whole issues is about you telling someone that the boa was not a 66% HET FOR BLIZZARD BUT A 66% HET FOR ALBINO AND TYPE 2 ANERY. This is also about you telling me that these were tha last of these boas produced this year and telling someone else that these are basically everywhere. All I'm am asking is that you tell people that contact you to verify an animal the same thing you said in your ad when you first had the boas for sale. And yes, if I find that you told someone otherwise than what was advertised when the boa was purchased (no matter if you sold it as is), I will consult an attorney, not only for the price of the boa but for housing, feeding costs and inconvinience. I hate when relations with other sellers go sour, but you just need to practice better business. Just think about how nice you made the boa sound when you first sold it and how bad you make it look when it is out of your possesion.

Lizard King <[email protected]> wrote:
Again you are VERY CONFUSED.

I told the other "buyer" that the males are a good deal less expensive then the females.

Next I have NEVER had anyone threaten to "sue me" or go off like you are on this. I do NOT APPRECIATE IT. Especially over a snake that was that inexpensive.

They are the same thing. Email others, post this on the boi, whatever you want. I have all the emails also, I DID NOT DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING WRONG.

THEY ARE THE SAME THING

66% DH BLIZZARD IS 66% het albinos AND 66% het type 2 anery.

I told you Jeremy was the only one I was aware of produceing theese, and that NO BLIZZARD HAD YET BEEN PRODUCED.

Jeremy produced the last litter of the season of dh blizzards, and as such is sending more to me. I NEVER SAID I WOULD NOT GET MORE. I DO SELL REPTILES FOR A LIVING.

I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOUR TONE, please think before your typing cause your info is backwards.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
4827 Dodge St Omaha NE 68132
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
[email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: Angel Vazquez
To: Lizard King
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: 66% het. for blizzard


I'm not confused, he forwarded me all the emails between him and you. When you sold these boas you stated in your ad "Jeremy has sold all of his and I'm the only one with these boas available" then you turn around and you basically tell someone that these boas are a dime a dozen (not in these exact words), this is just bad business practice. Instead of making these boas sound as good as when you first sold them, you degrade the boa as if it were a complete different animal as when sold. Also, "the other person" stated that you told him that the boa was not a 66% het. for blizzard but a 66% het. for albino and 66% het. for tyep 2. If they are both the same thing then why would you tell someone this? And no sir, you are incorrect about the other seller passing up because of the price for the female because he emailed me last night and stated that he would only purchase the boa if it was 66% het. for blizzard and not 66% het. for albino and 66% het. type 2.

Thanks,
Angel



Lizard King <[email protected]> wrote:
Hold up, your confused.

66% het blizzard IS 66% het type 2 anery and 66% het albino. THATs THE SAME THING.

The animal is what I sold it to you as. I also told you it would be a hard animal to pair up with. From what I understand the person your in contact with has decided to pass due to the cost of a female to pair him with. I was clear upfront with you that a female for this male would not be cheap if available at all this season.

Im sorry if there is a mis understanding.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
4827 Dodge St Omaha NE 68132
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
[email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: Angel Vazquez
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:07 PM
Subject: 66% het. for blizzard


This snake was purchased as a 66% het. for blizzard. I tried to sell the snake and someone had made contact with you to verify this animal. This person got in contact with me and stated that you told him that this boa was not a 66% het. for blizzard but a 66% het for albino and a 66% type 2 anery. If you sold this boa as a 66% het. for blizzard that is what I would expect you would tell someone or else this would mean that you misrepresented the boa to begin with meaning you did a bad sale. If you are saying that this boa is other than what you originally sold it for, then we have a problem and I would need to contact an attorney and get refunded any monies spent on the boa, housing and feeding. Please respond ASAP as I am concerned with what you originally said and what you are telling people now.

Thank You,
Angel Vazquez


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What would you guys do. I NEVER SAID theese boas were extremely rare. I did say not many people were working with them, and that a mate would be hard to come by. If anything I tried hard to inform people that this was a lost caused project without the right animals.

Others who purchased theese snakes from me know the info I gave on them, and I assure you it was accurate. I am VERY PISSED at this point with the tone of the emails from Angel, and even if I wanted to, I have NOTHING TO OFFER THIS PERSON after the treatment I have recieved.

Figured Id post the story before I see a post slamming me.

 

[DThomas]

That guy is clueless. If he is going to be buying and selling Hets, especially double hets, he had better darn well learn genetics. He has made himself look really foolish in those emails. I wouldn't worry about anything Mickey.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Hey Mickey.... wait till this guy figures out that 66% POSSIBLE het for Blizzard, also means that it's 34% POSSIBLE het for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!.... I think his head will explode!!....

I wouldn't give it a second thought, nor would I answer any more of his emails....

Neil

 

[Tim Rash]

Im just curious how much he paid for the snake. Also if he buy's another 66% het and breeds them and by chance they all are normals is he going to sue you for the price of both snakes and housing etc, etc, etc.

Tim

 

[miamireps]

obviously the point he is not getting is that the 66% het blizzard is the same as 66% het for albino and 66% het for anery type 2
He just doesnt get it.......its also his customers fault as neither of them know whats going on with the genes.
I think that his customer is just telling him that as he backed out of the deal already and just mentioned that to make it seem it was your fault and not his fault. Now angel thinks its your fault they dont understand and angel thinks its yours, which is probably what the customer who was probably blowing smoke up angels arse wanted to do.
Its an easy way out of a deal.
Mike
p.s. I have seen worse

 

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

Actually...I would happen to LOVE seeing a lawyer get involved in this!

"Hello?"
"Hi, is this Mr. Hinkle?"
"Yes, may I help you?"
"My name is Samuel Trinmaunbadibaum, I represent Angel. It seems that you sold a snake, a boa constrictor, as a 66% het for Blizzard yet you then claimed to someone else that it was, in fact, 66% het albino and 66% Type II Anery. Sir, is this true?"
"Erm....yes."
"A-HA!! So you admit it sir! Is it also true you THEN stated that it was just a POSSIBLE het for Blizzard!?"
"uuuhhh....ya..!.."
"Well then...we'll be seeing you in court!" *CLICK*

Mickey - I wouldn't give it too much thought. If all is as you say it is then I agree that your customer should be more informed and, as well, the now present customer. Because of this it sounds as if you are off the hook and haven't done anything. I would just reply to this foo-....person once again and reiterate that those are both the same thing and that you did nothing to try to screw anyone over in any way, shape, or form. Just do a lot of copying and pasting outlining everything you've told him and leave it at that.

Being uninformed is no grounds to sue someone.

Now....I have to go contact my lawyer. Reading this thread and feeling the need to reply to it has caused me mental strain.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

LMAO

Steven you always make me laugh.

I have tried and tried to explain to Angel the situation. Just doesnt click. I know the "suit" will be nothing. Its just annoying.

I did let Angel know I was posting this, and sent a link. Just to be clear that I am out in the open on this.

Well just another day in paradise. Now to fix the 400$ worth of heat rocks I was sent instead of water dishes....gotta love life. Who uses heat rocks anymore anyways?........LOL

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Hey Mickey.... just thought you'd like to see this.... I guess Angel likes it after all.... This ad is on-line right now.... lol

Posted by Angel Vazquez (Contact Me!) on August 26, 2004 at 09:43:28
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2003-03-05
Send this ad to a friend! Click Here!


Click on thumbnails to view fullsize in a new window

I have these 3 boas for sale. The 66% het. blizzard was given to me and the other 2 were purchased with a ghost package. I have no cage space or any breeding plans for them. The Anery male and het. for Anery female were purchased/produced by Jim Hopkins and are brother and sister to my Ghost. The 66% het. for blizzard was purchased from Mickey Hinkle from Lizard King Reptiles (not to mention this was the nicest of the boas sold and the only one with a striped tail) and was produced by Jeremy Stone. I have received numerous inquires and have received numerous offers in the $500.00 range. I will see what offers I receive until Friday and sell to the person that makes the best offer.

Neil

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

So...basically...Angel is a moron. Does that pretty much sum it up?

 

[mdc]

Hey Mickey,

Feel free to give her my contact info, since I bought one of them from you also. From her ad, she seems to live pretty close to me, so maybe she could call or email me and I can try to explain it to her. An impartial judge may be all she needs to be convinced that they are the same thing.
Although, if you want to get super technical, the odds of them actually being double hets is only 44%. However, it is accepted practice in this industry to call them 66% hets. I have only seen one person who advertised his poss dh snows as 44%ers. That would be Mr. Craig Kade. He must be an engineer or something like myself.
Anyhow, my email is [email protected] and my phone number is (925) 827-1607. If I can help out, let me know.

Matt Crabe

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Ive been informed that someone is sending harrasing emails to Angel as a result of this thread. That is not and was not the intention of my posting this thread, and I would hope whomever is doing it would be kind enough to stop.

I posted this thread to hopefully put and end to the ENDLESS back and fourth emails between Angel and myself in the last 24 hours. I have tried and tried again to explain the situation, to no avail.

I have not even been given the chance to rectify the situation, from the jump I have been under threat of "lawsuit".

I sold the snake in question well over a month ago, likely two. I have not heard from the buyer one time since the deal, untill yesterday. The VERY FIRST EMAIL contained threats of a lawsuit, on a situation I didnt even see how I was in the wrong. I was also called out as a "poor businessman, ect, ect". So the whole thing started off on the wrong foot.

Then I come to find out the animal in question is being advertised at an inflated price, as a poss dh blizzard (AND IT IS) but Im getting flack because its not. Not to mention the animal in question was the pick of the 7 poss dh's I recieved from Jeremy.

Now lets look at the question of rareity or not. There are many many many thousands of redtails born or imported every season. I would venture a guess that no more then 100 of any combination of the two genes (i.e. albino and type 2 anery in same snake) this whole season. I know Jeremy only had two shots at the blizzard, and likely only produced 30-40 animals. So I feel very confident in saying that the combination at this time is a very rare combination. The blizzard boa still only exists in the breeders and collectors minds.

I would hope that Angel would take this as a learning lesson, and move on. However should a "lawsuit" become of the situation, soo be it. I feel very confident with my standing in this situation.

Again if someone is sending harrasing emails, I believe that is wrong. I put this thread here to get others involved in a positive way to end the situation, not inflame it. I figured maybe an outside voice could explain it better then I.

Had I been approached in a different manner, I would have likely offered to buy the snake back at price plus frieght. Its a VERY NICE animal. I also have a type two anery poss het albino (i.e. poss dh blizzard) coming tommorow from Jeremy 2nd litter this season that IF its a female (and I highly doubt it) I would KILL to pair that male with. But now the taste is far to sour.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Now Im told I may have the cops involved?????

______________________________________

You should look up local laws before acting in a negative way. I just left a message at your local police dept. at (402) 444-7555. If I can press criminal charges I will and I would appreciate if you remove anything that would have any of my information.

P.S. I am also contacting aol to report the individual that sent me the ignorant email.

Thank You,
Angel

____________________________________________

All I did was follow the boi rules and post emails to prove my statements. Have I broken any laws???

 

[callmedaddie]

To all that have replied to this subject...please allow me to clear things up. The question here was never genetics. The question here was the information Mickey was giving to person that contacted him. Mickey was the person that told this potential buyer that the boa was not a 66% het. for blizzard but a 66% het albino and 66% het type 2 anery. To make things short, the potential buyer, after talking with Mickey was left with an impression that the 2 were different genetic carrirers (maybe thought one was more of a sure thing, I don't know) and that one type was worth more than the other. When the potential buyer contacted me with the previous information it made me confused and of course upset that the person I originally bought the boa from would make the animal sound negative, especially after making sound so good when he had it for sale. The question here is good business practices, if some of you recall the ad of the boas you would remember that he (Mickey) stated that these boas where the last Jeremy had produced this year, but when he emailed my potential buyer, Mickey stated that these boas are easily obtainable. I don't know about you guys but I have not seen any other 66% het. for blizzards for sale. So bottom line, this whole issue was never about the genetics but rather what Mickey was telling my potential buyer. I read all of your emails and it completely seems one sided when all the emails traded between poeple are not posted, just the ones that you benifit from. Hopes this clears up some of the confusion.

 

[odatria]

Hey Angel... Sounds to me that your complaint is based on Heresay!

Show me proof that Mickey claimed these are "easily obtainable" and then you have a complaint. If your client became confused that has nothing to do with Mickey. What do you think Mickey is under some obligation to sell your snake for you? Sound like your potential customer is trying to pull one over on you by making this genetic trait seem like it is less valuable. Unfortunately, you are falling for it and trying to put the blame back on Mickey. That is bad business from your end. Show us one email where Mickey has contradicted himself on the value of the animal and you will have a complaint. Until then, you are the questionable businessman.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Here are the communications between myself and the other "buyer". As a side note I believe this person was tyring to get a high end project that would produce for sure at dirt cheap. Once he decided he was no longer interested in the poss dh's, he started asking about the jungle siblings. I fully explained the story on them, and he decided not to buy them also. Maybe I should call Jeremy and start threatening lawsuits????

______________________________

Mickey,

Thanks for all the info.

Unfortunately, the collector in me was getting the better of the business side of me and I was trying to make this work. From what you say it seems I would be working against myself for quite some time which is something I regret doing too many times already !

btw- what are you getting on a pair of jungles ?



Thanks,
Bryan


Bryan

Pairing it up is the hard part.

The males are rather readily available at this time, but the females are few and very far between.

If you have a type 2 female, you could produce type 2's 33% het blizzards. (unless you pre prove the albino trait, then you would have anery 50% blizzard)

Realisticly the only way to make the blizzard with that particular male would be to double trait hit paired with a poss dh blizz female (again a tough find).

Its a GREAT PROJECT with a ton of potential. However its a very LONG ROAD unless you got atelast a grand to play with minimum.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
4827 Dodge St Omaha NE 68132
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
[email protected]

Gotcha !

Not a problem. I was just trying to get an idea what that animal that Angel has was worth and then what it would cost to pair it up !

Thanks,
Bryan
-------Original Message-------


Well I will put it to you this way.

Last litter Jeremy had said NO FEMALE FOR SALE THIS SEAOSON, IF SO ATLEAST 1500$.

However after the birth of the second litter, the price may have dropped a good deal. He didnt talk price to be quite honest.

When Jeremy sends me stuff, he just pulls what he needs, and sends the rest. Then he sends an invoice with it, and thats when I know what I owe....LOL.


Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
4827 Dodge St Omaha NE 68132
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
[email protected]



Hi Mickey,

Thanks for all the info.

Do you have any idea on a ballpark price for females, and type 2 anerys poss het blizzard ?

Thank you,
Bryan

That animal was produced by Jeremy Stone.

Its a 66% het for albino / type 2 anery. It was produced from a dh blizzard x dh blizzard. To date no "blizzard boaL" has been produced, and it appears next season is the soonest. Jeremy produced another litter a few months ago, and again missed on the blizzard. He has proven the type 2 anery genetic, and did produce albinos and anerys in the last pairing of 17 live, no still, no slugs, no blizzards.

I hope to get some more in from him next week, and may have both females, and type 2 anerys poss het blizzard, not quite sure what hes sending.

Hope that helps.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
4827 Dodge St Omaha NE 68132
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
[email protected]




Hi Mickey,

Got a quick question for you. What can you tell me about the 66% het. for blizzard that you sold Angel Vazquez ? I am thinking of buying it from him and he told me you could give me some background on it ?



_____________________________________

I removed "Bryan" the buyers info as he is not directly involved.

Also the emails are backwards. The last email was the first email I recieved on this subject last night. The part right above that was my first responce, and what I figured would be my ONLY participation in the "SALE" of another persons animal.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Note

I said the males are "rather easily obtainable at this time".

Now that was in COMPARISON TO THE FEMALES.

Im sure Mr Kade, and others can verify that when I was selling theese snakes I MADE THE BUYERS FULLY AWARE OF THE PRICE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALES AND FEMALES, AND HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO PRODUCE A BLIZZARD WITHOUT THE RIGHT INGREDIANTS (i.e. A FEMALE THAT IS ALSO A POSS DH OR BETTER).

Man this has been a long day, I wish I still drank.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

You know something else funny.

The fact that another litter is now available IN MY MIND makes her animal all the more valuable. One of the big reasons for the price difference between the males and females of the pairing was the fact that femals with the shot at both traits are just not available. With a couple makeing its way out this season, it opens the market for others. We all know how hard it is to get someone to think with foursight. Just wait till the blizzard boa is born, think what yearlings or older animals would be worth if its as nice as people hope.

 

[callmedaddie]

I knew that these responses would be one sided. People are being judgemental to an individual they don't even know. As you can see per Mickey's last entry, he admits that he told my potential buyer that "males are rather easily obtainable at this time"(happy Odatria). Like I said before, I have not seen any for sales for these types of boas since Mickey sold all of his, why would you tell someone this? And for your convinience I have included some of the emails sent by the potential buyer.

No, I am interested IF it's 66% het for blizzard ! If it's a 66% het for albino/ type 2 anery then I am not !

Thanks,

and

Angel,

According to Mickey that's not actually a 66% blizzard it's a 66% het for albino / type 2 anery.


Again, this was never about genetics but about what one person tells another.

 

[odatria]

Bryan

Pairing it up is the hard part.

The males are rather readily available at this time, but the females are few and very far between.

If you have a type 2 female, you could produce type 2's 33% het blizzards. (unless you pre prove the albino trait, then you would have anery 50% blizzard)

Realisticly the only way to make the blizzard with that particular male would be to double trait hit paired with a poss dh blizz female (again a tough find).

Its a GREAT PROJECT with a ton of potential. However its a very LONG ROAD unless you got atelast a grand to play with minimum.

This guy made it sound like you told his customer that the hobby was full of these animals, thereby decreasing the value. That is not the case at all. When read in context mickey gives the guy some good advice and then ncourages him that the project is "GREAT, with a ton of potential".

Whats the problem with this email? NOTHING! Brian backed out of the deal and Angel is blaming Mickey. That is bad business! Can you guys imagine how many threads there would be on the BOI if everytime someone backed out of a deal we cried about it on here? Webslave would have to charge a fortune just to keep up with the bandwidth. If you are going to buy/sell animals, you are going to encounter flaky people every day. That is just the nature of the beast. Get over it.

 

[callmedaddie]

You know Michael, maybe you can try to see this from a nuetral standpoint instead of immediately siding with Mickey. If by chance you missed the emails sent by the other seller you would see that he was given an impression that a 66% het. for blizzard was worth more than a 66% het. albino/type 2.