• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
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    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Angry

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amayon

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both female snakes that I got from the same person have died for absolutely no reason. the first one, maybe she was a tiny bit too cold, I dont think so, but the second one, i JUST found her and theres no reason for her to have died. there was water, she was not the tiniest big stressed i barely messed with them at all, and she had plenty of heat and a cool side. i am furious. they were "just" normals but I paid a lot of money for them and now theyre just gone. I have had them for a couple months and they never ate for me, but they were still fat so they didnt starve to death

should i demand my money back or replacement snakes? what? I am positive i didnt cause their death. ball pythons are not THAT touchy that a tiny error in temp or environment killed them
 
How long have you owned them? What are the exact tank temps (cool side/warm side/hot spot), what is their tank setup like, what kind of tank were they in, were they together, and who did you get them from?
I know it's a lot of questions... but they are all at least semi-necessary if you decide to get a refund.. if they both died I would suggest not gtting replacements from the same source...
 
I'm sorry to hear you lost the snakes. Do you know how warm the warm zone was? Were they wild-caughts? If so, did you have them tested for internal parasites? I think a little more information would be helpful in determining what to suggest w/ the seller.
 
amayon said:
both female snakes that I got from the same person have died for absolutely no reason. the first one, maybe she was a tiny bit too cold,
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what happened to there being absolutely no reason?? Being too cold is a good reason for a snake to die. So is not eating. As a matter of fact, being too cold is also a reason for them not to eat.

amayon said:
the second one, i JUST found her and theres no reason for her to have died. there was water, she was not the tiniest big stressed i barely messed with them at all, and she had plenty of heat and a cool side.
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again with the no reason...unfortunately, it usually doesn't work that way. I can pretty much guarantee there was a reason (trust me on this), you just haven't figured out what it was. The very sad thing is that that is the way this goes sometimes. I'm sure I sound like a bit of a jerk at this point, but how do you know she wasn't the tiniest bit stressed?

amayon said:
should i demand my money back or replacement snakes? what? I am positive i didnt cause their death. ball pythons are not THAT touchy that a tiny error in temp or environment killed them
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You can demand all you want...but the reality is that you aren't likely to get either. Keep in mind that you had these snakes for several months. Did you communicate with the seller about the problems you were having (oh, I forgot, there were no problems). As much as I hate to admit it, Southwick Herps' questions are the ones I would ask...or, at least the start of them. I understand your frustration over the deaths of your snakes, but the best thing you can do now is try to understand/figure out WHY they died...before you waste money buying another snake.
 
I have no idea what the temps are right this second but last I checked them over the heat mat was like 95. the cool side is noticably cooler but I dont know that temp. they werent spending too much time on the cool side or hot side or in the bowl, like they would if it was too hot or too cold
they are in a rubbermaid with a lid with lots of holes melted into the sides. like 40 holes. definitely getting airflow but not too much air!
they had water at all times and were in a dark room that was not disturbed
they were not advertised to me as wild caughts. i was told they were captive born/bred
the person gave me a health and feeding guarantee but they never ever fed for me either, not with all the tricks I tried and I tried everything short of kangaroo mice
they were housed seperately in rubbermaid bins with lids
i think i got all the questions
also posted the story in the BOI
 
how much does it cost to have a vet look at the dead animal and find out what was wrong? i dont have a whole lot of money right now and cant freeze the body so wondering if thats an option? thank you
 
ok...now we're getting somewhere. I just read your BOI post, as well.
What size rubbermaid were they in, and what was the room temp? How and where were you measuring the cage temps (what type of thermometer, and where was it placed). You say that they were in a dark room and weren't disturbed, but in your BOI post you said that they just sort of froze up on you...it didn't matter how long you held them. If the seller guaranteed their health and feeding, you may have had some recourse if you had communicated your concerns immediately. I still say that after 3 months, you are probably SOL. I know you say that everything was right with your set up (and it may have been), but something was wrong. In answer to your question (posted on the BOI) - yes, you can get a seemingly healthy snake that has problems. And that snake may easily live for 3 months (depending on what the problems were). How old were these snakes? Just out of curiosity (darn it - I had to leave, now I lost my train of thought)
 
amayon said:
how much does it cost to have a vet look at the dead animal and find out what was wrong? i dont have a whole lot of money right now and cant freeze the body so wondering if thats an option? thank you
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That depends on the vet. unfortunately, all I can suggest is calling and asking. If you are considering doing that, DO NOT FREEZE THE BODY!!
 
dont freeze the body, got it. how long can I wait before taking the body in?

room temp on the first one was mid 60s, but she was only there for 1 day and she died in that day (no heat mat). that is cold but for one day it should be fine. the other 3 snakes were also there for that day in the same temp and they did FINE. just THAT ONE

second snake the room temp is 75

they were not disturbed/in a line of traffic, i meant. I handled them to change water and bedding of course, and occasionally (every couple days) just to try to tame them

i am sure my set up was alright. I did months of snake research before getting my first snake, a corn, and then another several months of ball specific learning before getting these snakes. im no dummy and im confident i was getting everything right :(

they were 05s, i have no idea on age but they were in the 330-350 gram area. i weighed them all before the first female died

im just very upset and now my typing is going too. this was a lot of money for my broke self and now theyre just gone and i dont know if its my fault and all my other snakes will die too or what :(
 
amayon said:
dont freeze the body, got it. how long can I wait before taking the body in?
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If you refrigerate it (or cool it somehow), you can probably allow a couple of days to pass...but the more deterioration there is, the more difficult it will be to tell anything useful.
amayon said:
room temp on the first one was mid 60s, but she was only there for 1 day and she died in that day (no heat mat). that is cold but for one day it should be fine. the other 3 snakes were also there for that day in the same temp and they did FINE. just THAT ONE
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that makes it sound like she died the day you got her, or maybe the day after, when that clearly is not the case. You've already stated that you got her in october and the first one died 2 weeks ago...what were the temps through that period? How long did they go without supplemental heat?
amayon said:
I handled them to change water and bedding of course, and occasionally (every couple days) just to try to tame them
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If you did the research you say you did, my guess is that you came across information to the effect that if your ball python is not eating - leave it alone. contact should be minimal, to avoid stress, until the snake is feeding regularly. of course, I'm old and jaded, and have snakes that I never hold, even for cage maintenance...so that is easy for me to say
amayon said:
i am sure my set up was alright. I did months of snake research before getting my first snake, a corn, and then another several months of ball specific learning before getting these snakes. im no dummy and im confident i was getting everything right :(
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well, you sound very confident that you had everything right...at least in that blurb. Of course, when you turn around and say
amayon said:
now theyre just gone and i dont know if its my fault
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it loses something. Like I said before - the best thing you can do is step back and figure out what the problem was...it may not have had anything to do with your care. Then again, maybe it did. The bottom line is that I am not out to assess blame, and neither is anyone else. We'll ask a bunch of questions, in order to try to narrow down the problem...but we aren't trying to make you feel badly. If you don't know an answer, or find that perhaps you do bear some of the fault, nobody is going to give you a hard time. The important thing is that you try to learn from this...maybe it was sick, and there were symptoms you should have noted. maybe there was nothing you could have seen or done. From experience, I will tell you that there is only one thing worse than having an animal die unexpectedly...and that is seeing the problem, doing everything in your power to correct it, and having it die anyway.
So back to the questions which have remained unanswered... Did you ever contact the seller prior to the death of the first snake? What size boxes are they in? How and where are you measuring the temps (what type of thermometer, and where was it placed)
 
I agree with HHMoore.. Now, realize you may incriminate yourself as the cause of death.. But, we are not here to judge you, or to make you feel bad, we are here to help. I mean, we might seem like we're trying to pump you for info, and we might seem like we are hounding you on certain things, but honestly, it's for the better.
I mean, it's tough to lose snakes, we've all been there. The best thing to do in this situation, especially if it was the owners fault that they died is to understand why they died. Even though it sucks to learn your lesson the hard way, unfortunately that's the way it goes some times, and from this I hope you can take away a better understanding for your reptiles, and I know that you will be, as anyone would from having to deal with this situation, a better keeper.
Im sorry for your loss, if you need any help, let me know.
 
Amayon,

Please take this into consideration... If there was a guarantee, you have to do your homework, take your snakes to the vet and figure out why they died, and then go back to the seller and see what they have to say WITH the proof that you provided to them (necropsy).
If the sellers had any semblance of customer service, they should at least listen to your request... If not, put them up on the BOI and see if anything solves itself, but keep in mind the BOI is more to warn other people.

Good luck with everything, and don't give up. It's your money, your time and your snakes, you deserve an answer.
 
amayon said:
I have had them for a couple months and they never ate for me, but they were still fat so they didnt starve to death
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Did they go to the bathroom and/or shed while you had them? You said they were '05 babies and they went 2 months w/o food. Babies need to eat and they very well could have starved to death. Do you have any pictures of them?

amayon said:
ball pythons are not THAT touchy that a tiny error in temp or environment killed them
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Ummmm yes they are. If the snakes were wild caught they are THAT touchy and a tiny error in temp or environment will kill them. Something as simple as not providing a tight hide can keep them from eating.

I have sold lots of hatchling balls that were eating once or twice every week only to have the buyer call a month later saying the snake won't eat. I have them bring it in and I feed it. Some eat immediately when I remove them from the sack. The ones who don't I keep over night and nearly all of them have eaten for me that night and a few have went two days before starting to eat. I grill the owner on husbandry and the problem has always been the way the person was keeping the snake. Many times they are holding it too much, like you would a dog.
 
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Okay I just read up on the BOI thread about this.

It surely sounds to me like you got farm-raised imported babies. They are shipped over here right out of the egg and it's up to the buyer to get them feeding. These animals need to eat soon after the seller gets them in and it sounds as if the person you bought them from didn't take the time to get them feeding properly. About half eat right out of the bag and have no problems whatsoever. The stubborn ones take longer. It takes at least a month, sometimes 2, to get the stubborn imported babies eating properly. We get around 100 every year so I'm speaking from a little bit of experience.

So more than likely yours had never eaten. These animals are very touchy and have to be treated differently than CBB balls. If the babies don't eat after two weeks, we always assist feed them by placing a fuzzy mouse in their mouth and letting them finish eating on thier own. We leave them completely alone. Only pick them up to assist feed and nothing more. The stubborn ones usually have to be fed like this two maybe three times and then they start eating on their own. We never sell any unless they're eating on their own 4 times in a row.

Many suppliers want to unload the animals as soon as they get them therefore they don't bother to even try to feed them. It's really hard to keep on top of feeding 50 balls and I can only imagine what it's like to have hundreds which is what it sounds like this person has/had.

When you buy the farm raised babies in a huge quantity, you can get them really cheap. I've seen them go as cheap as $9/100. It's really sad when people can buy a life that cheap and just throw it away by not getting it feeding before they sell it.
 
Believe me, I am really not trying to pick on you. I have a hard time understanding a couple of facts.

Why were they in a cold room for a day with no heat? As already pointed out, it could not be the first day you received them because you have already stated when they passed.

How do you know how cold the room was? You state 60’s.
room temp on the first one was mid 60s, but she was only there for 1 day and she died in that day (no heat mat). that is cold but for one day it should be fine. the other 3 snakes were also there for that day in the same temp and they did FINE. just THAT ONE
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The first snake died on that day and you state the others “did fine just that one”. It could be the others did not do fine at this time, They just didn’t expire. Your other statements about their response time and reactions could fit into a theory about the temps they were held in for that day.

Karen asked some great questions about defecation and shedding and if you can take pictures and/or have pictures of them when they arrived..
 
so i was sold import snakes labeled as CBB? great :( and i paid a lot for them. more than you pay at a petco for normals. *sigh* looks like i got ripped off all around. all my other snakes have been treated the same exact way with no special differences in care, and my two other balls (the remaining female JUST shed yay) and my corn are doing fine. course i didnt get them from eric white either. they did poop a couple times while i had them. they did not shed. they did not eat for me and i didnt try force feeding though that was next on my list :( they were sold to me as live feeders and i was told they were eating for him and he guaranteed they would feed for me. he guaranteed health and everything. since they wouldnt ever eat for me, even with all the fancy tricks i tried does that make the guarantee void?

the difference in these snakes is incredible. i have my pastel male on the keyboard and this guy is as friendly and curious and tame as anything you could ever want, and he pounds mice like crazy..... the 2 females i have and even my one remaining female from someone else act very different. like they were never tamed or handled at all. which makes sense if you consider they were wc and not cb and handled from day one like my male right? :(
*sigh* i have pictures from when I weighed them. is a weight loss of about 100-120 grams serious? they lost that much from advertised weight, to when I weighted them right before the first ones death (2 or 3 weeks ago). if that is very severe then yes i guess they could have starved to death :( i really did try everything i could to get them to eat. i didnt want to forcefeed because iv heard they can go months and months and not to stress them by forcing it unless its really dire. i didnt see the signs i guess that it was to the dire point :( *bangs head on desk*
 
Sorry. I was moving and had to leave them at the old place before I could come back for the rest of my stuff. they were there, in the empty apartment, for a day, with no heater on. then i brought them to my new place and immediately put the heat mats back on. in that one day is when the first one died. it was a couple months after i got them, yes. they did not have the best of heat in that first time period at the old house, but ambient room temp was 70 at night and 80-83 during the day, with occasionally handling where they got body heat (not sure if that matters). and I was told/reassured by a fellow ball python person that those temps were fine for a couple months, as it was winter anyway and cooler temps would not pose a problem they would just settle in for the cold season. i guess that was wrong? those temps were not fine? *sigh*
 
A point about a refund.

If you did receive imports, you are still owed a refund even if it has been three months.

I would send the seller a email asking for the breeders name, due to the fact he mostly deals in import animals.
 
hmmmm. duh me i assumed eric white bred the animals as they were labeled CBB. i emailed eric when the first one died and again last night with the second one, and the negative post on the BOI, hopefully will get a response out of him this time. im never buying normals again. ill save my money for the big guys that i know have been cared for real good :(

so does everyone think them not eating is what killed them? what should i do about my remaining female? she hasent eaten either! should i try to force feed her? her backbone is a little sharp :( or should i get someone else to do it so i dont hurt her?
 
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