• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Animal Law Enforcement Agents

bcherps

bcherps

New member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
565
Reaction score
15
Points
0
Location
gainesville fl for now
Oh holy webslave I am not sure if this is supposed to be in BOI or someother place, since I have only started one other thread in my year and half on here, which I think was in the wrong place too. If it needs to be moved please tell me so I can repost it in the proper place and erase this one. Thank you

This is mainly for the Florida dealers/breeders.


I have been in Florida now a little over 2 years. When I first arrived everyone mentioned about how the FWC, IF&W, or whatever you want to call them sets up stings, baits people, plays permit nazi at shows, and is a general stickler when it comes to home inspections. So I didn't know what to expect when I started sending in for permits and doing shows.

Well low and behold I went to a show and was watching a friends table while he was gone(before I had my own permit). The inspectors came by and wanted to see a permit. I told him I was watching the table while my friend was gone. So they proceeded to berate me up one side and down the other, and actually wrote the other guy watching the table with me a warning, and said if we didn't have the permit the following day we would be shut down, arrested, and taken to court then probably fined.

So, whatever, we got the permit from my friend an all was well. So a few shows go by and I become a little less leary of the inspectors again. So I am at a little tiny mixed pet show and a non-reptile person shows up with a retic that looked worse than my roadkill ratsnakes that I use for scenting that I keep in my freezer. It was a bag of skin with a spine, had a 45 degree depression that used to be a nose, a stuck on shed, and was infested with mites. This person had the nerve to put it on her table for sale.

When the officers came by and rudely interuptted me educating a customer on thier new purchase to demand to see my permit immediately. I informed them of the condition of the animal, and that it was unfit for sale, likely to die, and had been more than neglected. I asked that it be removed from the show. They looked at me and replied "Oh, we can't do that". So I asked them why they would not do anything about this animal abuse. They said they were only thier to check permits and not investigate animal abuse cases, and certianly could not remove an animal from the show.

So my inquiry is why in the heck do we have these people around?

I was sent a letter buy some official stating why all of our permits went up like 2000%. In it all it could do was state that we had not had permit fee increasesin like 30 years and that this money would employ agents to do home inspections, and caging checks for venomous owners, and that in the long run this would benefit the animals and the keepers who house them properly.

Well here is two officers standing 25 feet from an animal that is clearly going to die becuase of an owners ignorance and/or laziness and they refused to do anything about it.

So here is another inquiry. Can these officers really do anything except enforce the fact that you have paid them your permit fee or not.

Again I hope this is in the right place. I thank everyone that can give me some pertinent information.

Benjamin Cole
 
BENJAMIN, When you say your friend

had gone, How long was he gone? Its one thing to watch a table while someone has lunch, makes a pit stop, etc. but if he left the table without maintaining a permit on the premise, then I can understand that a problem could arise. But their is never any excuse for rudeness regardless what uniform they wear, and I would not hesitate to tell them so. JERRY
 
Hey Benjamin,

Well from what I hear too, they are really cracking down on the permit issues. Make no mistake about it though there were probably other agents there too checking out the other stuff. I have also heard that at larger shows they might take offenders directly to a court situation in order to keep them from 'skipping out' on the fine. This rumor was going around at the Daytona show last year, don't know if it happened to anyone but the rumor was there.

As far as the agents only enforcing the permit issues, I think they can do just about anything they want but probably had a specific goal in mind....to check and enforce the permits or lack there of. They are very tough here in Florida so the best thing to do is conduct your business very professionally and properly and don't make waves and all should be fine. If you don't follow the rules, they can make it very tough for you.

My two cents ;)
 
MATT, what you are referring to may

pertain to out of state vendors. Not Fla resident vendors. But the fact remains their is a code of conduct believe it or not. One of these days, one of these overzealeous officers may become liable for their actions.
 
They do their job.

Hey Benjamin,
There are a lot of crooks fly by nights that get away with breaking laws all over but when they come here to the sunshine state they better have their papers up to date.
I pay my state fees and I expect it to be used properly.
That means ENFORCMENT.

I feel if you did not have a valid permit or license The inspector has the right to bust you plain and simple.
They were NICE to you!

my 2 cents
 
Hey Jerry,

I heard it was because of the out of staters but am glad to hear it does not affect Florida vendors!
 
It isn't their job to do anything about animals health. They are there only with the authority of their jurisdiction to enforce laws that apply to native animals and state animal regulations on commerce. Animal health issues are for the animal control officers, humane society and others. It would be nice if that show promoter gave a damn about the condition of the animals at their show though.
 
Evan is exactly right. FWC officers are not responsible for the health of exotic animals sold at a herp show. Your beef should be with the seller and the promoter of the show who allowed this animal to remain on display.

Their job at these shows is simply to enforce permits...so essentially you are complaining because they did the job they're paid to do. I don't get it.
 
Its true that they have to enforce their permits. I totally agree with that, since it does serve a purpose.

But wow these FWC guys can pack a hell of an attitude on them. You can have all the proper paperwork and theyll bitch and scream at you if its not in the right order and that right order changes on a daily basis.Haha, they can be a trip.
 
To answer the first question by Ghi, the friend was gone for about four hours, and the permit actually never left the table, I just didn't know where it was.

I do have my own permits now as I am a resident and all that jazz now.

If the fly by night comment was aimed at me, I have been doing this for 13 years and shows for 6. I was the creator of the only show in Maine (has now been taken over by the MHS), I have held several board posistions on multiple Herp Soc's, and have a bachelor's degree in Animal and Veterinary Sciences, and will be pursuing my DVM once this degree is paid off.

If the comment was not aimed at me sorry to get defensive.


Several people have mentioned that it is not these officers duty to deal with the welfare of the animal at the show. Why then come to my house to check my cages, why write rules on cage minimums for size? If the health of the animal is not governed by these people then who does?, and why did my letter from the permit people say the rate hike was justified to better protect the animals?

I do agree that maybe the show setting affected thier decision but the animal was in trouble at that moment. I asked her about it and she claimed that it was fine and just needed a little loving care. If you see a dog fight or a starving horse abondoned in a dirt lot there are about 6 agencies you can call to get help. But who protects the reptiles in Florida? You can't call the police, all they will do it club it then shoot it, then cut its head off, then kick it about some. You can't call the HSUS becuase they will immediately euthanize all reptiles. So if the reptile inspectors aren't the guys to enforce humane treatment-who does?

I see many reptiles at many shows that I do not think are in perfect health for the general public and do not agree with many standards of importation. However I have never seen any reptile vendor weather they be a jobber or an importer blatantly harm an animal.

If someone will blatantly display a neglected animal in public and not care-then what do they do to it home behind closed doors.

I am not here to say that animal enforcement officers are bad, lazy, or wrong in anything they did. I am just extremely frustrated that the retic was in that condition and it seemed like no one would help me.

I know many of you out there rehab animals, I know many of you have rescued animals from beside the road that where hit, or found in the yard after a cat or dog got them. But in this instant that snake needed to be taken away, and as a civilian I have no power over that woman. So the snake needed to get a legal officer to step in and help-which it didn't.

I'm not here to mention the persons name, I'm not here to blast officer so and so. I'm not here to say all animals can be saved. I'm not here to say the industry is bad. I'm pro pet trade, I'm pro herpetoculture, but I am also pro ethical treatment. What I want from all you people who are more experienced with Florida Law is to point me to the people who can do something about animal abuse that is occuring upon reptiles. In my opinion dying of dehydration is no different they being beat to death-the animal dies painfully either way.
 
did not mean you

Read again I think I meant the scammers that come here[fla]

here is my quote

'' There are a lot of crooks fly by nights that get away with breaking laws all over but when they come here to the sunshine state they better have their papers up to date.''

I read too fast some times no problem

;)
 
Evan is correct that the Florida "officers" are limited as to what they can enforce when it comes to "exotics". However, they do have some pull. Many are reluctant to enforce anything other permit / inspections. Get on their wrong side however, and you'll see that they can go quite far and will engage other agencies to conduct inspections/raids/etc. Best bet in the mentioned scenario would have been to contact the show promoter right there and then. I try not to do any shows that do not have a set criteria for either veterinary inspections or a promoter that will insure at least a minimum policy for what can be offered.(Health, weight, etc.) Some show promoters get busy and may miss something. Best to draw their attention to a situation like this. If nothing is done....make others aware of the promoters policies and which vendor is selling garbage like this. It's tough to seize any animal here. Most agencies will give the owner a warning and then require the owner to get the animal to a vet within a set period of time. If the owner does not follow through then they can seize the animal. Sad but, true.
 
Well...I have only delt with the guy that inspects at shows in the Dade,Broward and Palm Beach areas of Florida. He has always been nice and respectful. Hell...he even knows my name and I do not know his. Our permit is under my partners name and we always talk to this guy at shows if we are selling or not. We have never had problems with him and I have never seen a person have problems with him.

As for the condition of the animal. I have picked up animals of similiar condition and refuse to sell unless it can be brought back to health. That person was probably lazy.
 
Back
Top